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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
How to handle a free lance situation
Grant Gannon, Photographer
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Oxford | MS | USA | Posted: 12:59 AM on 05.08.04 |
->> Ok so I get my first real free lance gig tonight photographing an Ole Miss baseball game.
Here's what goes down, I photograph the entire game, take the photos, crop, edit etc. and think I email them off to the paper I am shooting for.
They call me about an hour later to say they haven't received the photos. Turns out they gave me the wrong email address. I get them to email me so I can just reply with the photos.
They do and I email the photos and walk away from the computer, I request a phone call to confirm, it doesn't come.
I get back to the computer to find an email sayin that the email inbox I send the photos to is full.
Just called, of course it's past deadline at near midnight and the photos won't run
Do I still deserve to get paid? I fulfilled my obligation but a big technical snafu causes the photos not to be received and not run.
Is it my place to ask for money? I mean, it probably wouldn't have been all that much and I'm not going to starve without it, but on principle? |
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Craig Mitchelldyer, Photographer, Assistant
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Milwaukie (Portland) | OR | USA | Posted: 1:39 AM on 05.08.04 |
| ->> Well, that's tuff. I would not bill them if it were me, because even though it was a tech screw up on there end, its your fault for not calling to verify they recieved them....first rule is always verify they recieved them, they look ok on their end and that they don't need anything else. That's just me though, I'm a customer first kind of guy. |
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Robert Longhitano, Photographer
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North Wales | PA | USA | Posted: 1:50 AM on 05.08.04 |
->> Depends on the agreement you had. If you were shooting on spec for a space rate you're out of luck. If you were getting paid per-game sure you still should get paid.
As you found out emailing images is the pits, next time insist on uploading them to their FTP site. If they don't have one, make a web gallery with Photo Mechanic or Photoshop and email them a link after you upload it to your site.
Good luck! |
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John Cowpland, Photographer
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Napier | New Zealand | New Zealand | Posted: 3:57 AM on 05.08.04 |
->> Geez this is tuff call ... I'd have to disagree with Craig a bit...If I rang everyone I sent to I'd a) never have time to shoot and b) have a HUGE phone bill!
I don't see how a paper can let its mail box get that full! Its unprofessional!
Its always a good idea to send a test email to a new client to verify that address they gave you is the right one and not full! This should be done BEFORE you need to send images on deadline!
Robert is right that it will depend on the agreement you had...look at it from another angle, if they HAD recieved the images and decided NOT to use any would you still want to be paid? You have costs to cover.... |
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Clark Brooks, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 8:13 AM on 05.08.04 |
->> Grant.
Tough call. Talk to the editor who gave you the assignment. It sounds like either way they were not going to get your photos because the client had limited resources to accept the images. If there is more work to be had from the client and the editor apologizes for not being able to get your photos, don't bill them or ask for 1/3 to cover your time. This happened to me once and I was still paid the full amount by my client. Not that I'm in the other shoe, if that happened with one of my freelancers, I would still pay them the full amount because it was a technical difficulty on my end.
Then work with the editor to create a primary and back-up plan for the next assignment before it happens. As Robert Longhitano suggest create a gallery on-line so they can down your work directly from the web. Call to make sure they got access and the retrieved the pics and take the gallery down before it is spydered. |
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Jock Fistick, Photographer
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Brussels | Belgium | | Posted: 11:25 AM on 05.08.04 |
| ->> Yes, you should get paid!!!! They gave you the wrong info - it was their mistake not yours - that being said you should follow the advice others here have given - always ask if ftp is an option - send test emails - and call to confirm. But even calling can be a problem as I have gotten an editor on the phone who is busy - and just looks quickly and thinks they have received the pix but did not really check to see if the images were ok blah blah blah. You can only do so much to protect people from themselves. But in this case you did your job and should be paid. |
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Jason Warner, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Northridge | CA | U.S.A. | Posted: 12:24 PM on 05.08.04 |
->> Sorry if this is off-topic but I'm a techno-illiterate trying to learn quickly: what does "spydered" mean and where can I learn more about the FTP process?
jason |
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Ian Elliott, Photographer
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Juliann Tallino, Photographer
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Vallejo | CA | usa | Posted: 1:25 PM on 05.08.04 |
| ->> This happens to me all the time at the paper I shoot for, I email them photos and they bounce back because the mailbox is full. It drives me nuts. I think you should get paid, it is their fault totally! They knew photos were coming they should make sure the mailbox isn't full. I'll bet this isn't the first time it's happened to them. And they gave you the wrong email to begin with, a total waste of your time. If it's anything like my paper they don't even know what FTP is. :) That being said, it is best not to burn bridges if you you may want to freelance for them in the future, so you may just want to talk to the editor first and see what their take on the situation is , they may pay you anyway. :) |
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Mike Pittman, Photographer
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Raleigh | NC | USA | Posted: 1:38 PM on 05.08.04 |
->> I say put them in a web gallery. I shoot freelance for a local weekly here (not often enough... silly 40hr/week job always interfering with my personal life) and use JAlbum to generate the web album. It will take the PShop caption info and create web-captions for the images. It's quick, it's easy, it's free, and you publish directly out of JAlbum. I've set mine up so that the client always goes to the first page with a © message on it so they know what they're getting into; or at least have that information and can't play stupid.
http://jalbum.net |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 3:15 PM on 05.08.04 |
->> Grant, All of these issues need to be spelled-out in your paperwork. No business (and you ARE a business) can operate according to the policies of its customers.
But even without any paperwork, common decency would have you getting paid in-full. You did perform the work and the failure in the process was entirely the fault of the client. It is not your responsibility to subsidize their ordinary costs of doing business.
--Mark |
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Grant Gannon, Photographer
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Oxford | MS | USA | Posted: 3:39 PM on 05.08.04 |
->> It was a spur of the moment type thing and the people called me yesterday afternoon just prior to the game starting. We talked about it and I will be working the next two games for them, so things should work out in the end.
I genuinely appreciate EVERYONE's response. Better to make this kind of mistake early. |
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Jim Fridenmaker, Photographer
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Portsmouth | OH | USA | Posted: 5:13 PM on 05.08.04 |
->> Grant,
I would as quickly as possible purchase a domain and webspace. What I learned from my Internet Service Provider days is email was never designed to send huge attachments. Others have suggested FTP. I would agree but go one step beyond and say you take responsibility for it rather than ask for a client login.
You then offer options to your clients. Always go through a "dry run" with the person that will be responsible for pulling the photos off. There are all different levels of tech ability. If you offer them an easy option to get their photos; while it may be new to them, they'll still do it as long as its easy. Then _you_ won't be the cause of bouncing other photographers emailed submissions because of _your_ attachments sent in an unchecked email box. You can then email them a link to the photos which will probably get through. But if not, you can verbally tell them where the photos are at; fax it in to them, etc.
(Each client gets a "folder" off my website which is not accessible to the public.)
Now, when you followup with the client, you've already checked your server log and see that it was at least accessed by them. (You can't prove that they saved them successfully to their hard drive.) You know what photos they at least got to the point of viewing with. And you know if they say "Looks great...good to go" and they haven't even looked at them yet. And, depending on the client, you even have the control to password protect viewing the photos so if you're under an exclusive arrangement, the client knows they're the only ones with access to the pics. And, if they're still using dialup to access the internet, you can even give them small images to click on which will load fast in the browser. Only click on the ones you like "small". No need to wait for huge images you don't want.
This is an overview of the process I use; for details, email me via my member page and I'll be happy to help you get there.
Jim |
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Jim Fridenmaker, Photographer
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Portsmouth | OH | USA | Posted: 5:19 PM on 05.08.04 |
->> Jason,
spydered/spidered is the term for "indexed"/a visit by the various search engines for inclusion in their listings.
Usage: Google spydered (re-spydered) my site today. (I found out from my server logs.)
Jim |
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John Cowpland, Photographer
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Napier | New Zealand | New Zealand | Posted: 7:01 PM on 05.08.04 |
->> The problem with setting up a webpage or your own FTP is that some, and the list is growing because of the number of virus attacks, newspaper companies are limiting what sites staff can access.
It also means one more thing that busy pic editor has to do! Imagine a busy day in the office for the PE, he has 10 freelancer's or stringers out shooting for him. Its getting close to deadline.....
Each has set up their own FTP site...so now, to find the pics he wants, HE has to visit 10 different sites...each with its own log on and passwords! Come on guys...not going to happen!!
If he can't see the pics in front of him he isn't going to go chasing them!
If the paper has its own FTP by all means use it! Just make sure its not run by the IT department and can only be accessed by them! ( true story...at one newspaper group here in NZ the ftp site is run by the IT guys and only they can clear it! So if they aren't watching it the pics just sit there!!)
The joy of email is just about everyone knows how to use it...they have even taught journalists how to use it!
The pic ed opens his email and there are his pics! RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM! No having to go looking, no extra things to log into, no extra passwords!
Basically it boils down to this....K.I.S.S Keep it simple, stupid! Make life easier for the PE and your pics are more likely to run....make him jump through hoops to get your pics and chances are they will end up staying just where you put them! |
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Michael J. Treola, Photographer
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Neptune | NJ | USA | Posted: 7:03 PM on 05.08.04 |
->> Grant,
You should have no hesitation in submitting your invoice for full payment to your client. You have no control over the equipment of your client so you are not at fault as to the delivery of the photos. You performed your end of the assignment.
In the past when I freelanced there were at times scheduling issues that cause some assignments to not take place after arriving at the scheduled time. I ALWAYS billed my standard kill fee because that time wasted could have allowed me to work for another client during that time. Never was I questioned about kill fees or general invoicing about situations you described. Like I said bill the client without hesitation.
One thing you should note is that the capacity of some email services is not very large. For instance my basic business high-speed cable line has just 10 MB of storage space. Put a couple of photos on there and well.... you see the point. The photo email at my paper is on a separate server because an insane amount of photos. Every publicly submitted photo comes through that address like wedding photos, obituaries, some freelance photos, photos for ads and a never-ending supply of Viagra spam mail. A few times our 900 Meg limit has been reached even when auto killing everything past 30 days is in place. Like I said some company email systems can gets taxed even large ones like at my office.
There are a few things that you can and should do differently. You should always have a back up as a plan b. You can use their FTP site as a guest, your FTP site and give them access. If they have a dedicated computer with a modem you can do a computer-to-computer connection using a phone line with programs like Telefinder, Zterm or Global Transfer. Have something in place just in case there is a situation like this next time.
Secondly as someone already touched upon above is communicate! When dealing with editors of any type on deadline they have loads of stuff flying at them from all directions. Editors can very easily get sidetracked on something else and when come time to look for your photos and their not where they should be there is no little or no time to get the problem solved. Very simply is you send the photos and pick up the phone and call the editor, identify yourself and the job you shooting, and ask them to check while they are on the phone with you for the arrival of your photos. This should happen before you do anything else at the deadline assignment. If something is wrong it can be troubleshot right then and their. This is basic deadline sending procedure and something you should get used to. Establish a routine for deadline work and follow it to the T for every client.
Tree |
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Bob Markey, Photographer
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Royal Palm Beach | FL | USA | Posted: 1:54 PM on 05.09.04 |
->> You deserve to get paid, but if it requires burning a bridge ...?
I had a similar situation when my Norton Antivirus program caught and refused to send a number of images via e-mail. It messed me up during two long-distance assignments before I figured out what was happening.
Outlook (or Outlook Express) was showing the e-mails in the "Sent Items" folder and the mails were talking a long time to send (common with dial-up), so I assumed they were going through. But the newspaper was not receiving them. I tried again and again.
What I didn't realize was Norton was holding them for outbound virus scanning and they were never leaving my computer. I disabled the outbound message scanning and the problem was solved.
The sports editor/paper was kind enough to pay anyway.
FTP is the most solid transfer method (I do it that way with a weekly I shoot for), but many papers will not give you access to their servers. You might consider using FTP to your Web space (download the WSFTP program for free; it's easy to use). Just drag and drop and let the paper upload from your Web space. |
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Roger Hornback, Photographer
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Bakersfield | CA | USA | Posted: 2:50 PM on 05.09.04 |
| ->> You should see if you can go to the paper after you shoot assignments for them and put them in the system yourself. |
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