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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Please help me get some gear!
Johnathan Deo, Photographer, Student/Intern
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South San Francisco | CA | USA | Posted: 12:45 AM on 05.01.04 |
| ->> I've been looking to get some gear I'm talking glass long and short, flash, body etc. I've been a staff photographer at my college paper, and have been using the paper's equipment since my gear was stolen about (7 months back). Feel free to e-mail me for the long version of the sad story. I figure with the Mark II's release I'd be able to get a 1D body for a good price. If there's anyone out there that can give me some tips on how to get some gear at a good price please let me know. I will soon be taking an internship, and leaving my school paper. I really need gear of my own. Please help I unfortunatly dont have 10 grand to throw around, only a pile of student loans. |
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Roger Hornback, Photographer
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Bakersfield | CA | USA | Posted: 1:15 AM on 05.01.04 |
| ->> Get the internship, save money, buy gear. Or, get a credit card, buy gear, pay credit card with internship money. Or, get a job, save money, and buy gear. Or, call your rich uncle, ask for a loan, buy gear.;) |
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Bruce Twitchell, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Lewiston | ID | USA | Posted: 2:03 AM on 05.01.04 |
->> Credit card, they are evil but neccesary. I am still paying for gear that I put on my card a couple of years ago, but I have the gear and am able to shoot assignments and put food on the table, granted it it still Ramen but food all the same. Get a credit card, I would bet that this is how at least 3/4 of the people on this site got their gear.
I know this is not what you want to hear, I too keep waiting for the Canon guy to come to my town and hand me all the gear I could ever want for free, but this is not going to happen so the credit card must. |
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Shaun Stewart, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Austin | TX | USA | Posted: 2:12 AM on 05.01.04 |
->> I'm a student, staff photog for The Daily Texan, I do freelance yadda yadda... I assume all students get these piles of credit offers like I do, so.. Take them up on one. I got 0%APR till July 2005, so I picked up a D2H a while back. I had already bought a D100 and a bag full of fast glass, and its almost paid off...
Orrr... take out a student loan. Theyre low interest, sometimes payment can be deferred, too. Basically, the way I see it, the sooner you get your gear, the sooner you can make photos and possibly make some money.
~Shaun 'debt up to my eyeballs' Stewart~ |
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John Marshall Mantel, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 6:49 AM on 05.01.04 |
| ->> what gear do you own right now ? |
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Larry Vaughn, Photographer
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Gainesville | FL | usa | Posted: 8:51 AM on 05.01.04 |
->> Shaun, where did you get the free interest till July 05 unless you miss a payment by one second and then you pay exorbitant fees?
My deal ends in April 05. I might need the extra time. |
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Larry Vaughn, Photographer
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Gainesville | FL | usa | Posted: 8:55 AM on 05.01.04 |
| ->> Oh, if you are over 21 and have a good driving record and haven't been arrested for any really bad things, you can get a commercial driver license and drive a semi for a while. With the right owner as an independent contractor driver figure $1000-1500 a week. Do that for a three months and you should be set. |
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Alan Stewart, Photographer
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Corydon | IN | USA | Posted: 9:20 AM on 05.01.04 |
->> Do NOT use a credit card if at all possible.
You don't want your equipment owning you...and when you pay cash for something (in this case at least a cool grand +), it causes an emotion and you'll make smarter choices with your money. |
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Rick Burnham, Photographer
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Enfield | CT | USA | Posted: 9:22 AM on 05.01.04 |
->> Larry, I hope you were just jesting about driving a semi. Yep just what we all need some college kid on the road driving a semi while trying to read the manual for his new camera and fill out his log book at the same time.
My dad was a truck driver for 33 years and it's not an easy job as SS member Joe Rogate could probably tell you. As someone who trained firefighters to get their Commercial Drivers License (CDL) getting one to drive a semi is infinately harder that one for an emeregecy vehicle and even then after watching hundreds of students (firefighters) take the static course test I'd say only about 60-65% actually pass the first time out. Then don't forget the time and $$$$ needed to take the CDL training and testing and of course the TRUCK with which to do it in. You just can't go to Ryder, Hertz or Avis and rent an International to take your test with.
You'd be better off assisting or shooting for your local daily or even working at Wendy's for the summer if you couldn't find anything else. |
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Larry Vaughn, Photographer
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Gainesville | FL | usa | Posted: 9:45 AM on 05.01.04 |
->> I got my cdl for $1,000 in Florida, I passed the temporary permit test by studying online info at no cost other than my internet connection. The license office provides the actual test and permit for free. The actual license upgrade cost me $75.00.
My school (Bradford-Union Vo Tech in Starke Florida) provided everyhing I needed including the road test and drug test at no extra cost. It took 2 months to complete.
The work isn't easy, but can pay well with the right deal. If you are on the road with a codriver, you will have more time to read than you need.
The last time I was out I made a bit over $1,000 for about 7 days worth of driving.
Last night I got a call from a guy from an ad I placed last year from someone who would be willing to pay me 25% of the gross revenue the truck generates. A gross of over $200,000 a year is not uncommon. 25% of that is 50k with maybe 12 weeks off a year.
I pay no expenses except for personal things like meals.
I got some of them from guys who worked at Wendys ;).
Don't get me wrong. I'm not taking the deal. It's a tough life. I have more respect now for truckers and less for joe car driver on an interstate highway after you see things that they do.
But, I recently went to the only newspaper in town. If I want to shoot for them, I have to live with their work for hire agreement.
I'm not sure that is a good trade at the moment. We shall see. |
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Johnathan Deo, Photographer, Student/Intern
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South San Francisco | CA | USA | Posted: 7:51 PM on 05.01.04 |
| ->> Well guys thanks for the advice. I was hoping there was some super secret way to get gear I knew I was dreming, but a guys gotta hope. On another note do you think that a standard 1D (4.1MP) is a good way for me to go? I've been actually shooting mostly Nikon for the last cfew years, but I covered some college softball, and a snowboarding event with a 1D and I really liked the feel and responsiveness of it. Any comments would be great. |
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Wayne McAtee, Photographer, Assistant
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Hesperia | CA | usa | Posted: 2:05 AM on 05.02.04 |
->> 1. How did you get the gear that was stolen?
2. 7 months and no plan to save up.
3. Get a job or more jobs and save up
4. lower your wants to needs. (Good old used gear not 1d and cool IS long glass)
5. DO NOT PUT IT ON ANY CREDIT CARD !!!
6. check out second hand stores (pre ebay)
7. Make a list of what you make now and how you spend it. drop all the extra stuff (cell phone etc)
I dont want to put you down but take the time to get a plan and make it happen. It sucks at the time but it is worth the effort. :) |
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 6:21 AM on 05.02.04 |
->> Johnathan ---
I guess I went to school a long time ago, but the method that I (and many of my colleagues at the time like Barry Wong, who is now at the Seattle Times) used was ... working and saving out money.
I don't want to burst your bubble or sound mean, but there are no free rides in life ... and especially in journalism. Paying one's dues and earning not only your reputation but you own personal gear takes hard work, time and sacrafice.
So what I am saying is ... short of some millionaire reading this thread feeling benevolent and giving you the money to buy two professional digital camera bodies, 4 lenses, 2 flashes, 10 compact flash cards, camera bags and cases, extra batteries, a laptop computer and a partridge in a pare tree ... you may have to do what a lot of us did: work and save OR get a loan.
Of course in my day it didn't take $15k to get fully outfitted like everyone wants to be these days ... heck, Barry and I were *very* satisfied with a Nikkormat, 35mm (Barry went with the 28), 105mm and Vivitar 283 when we were in college.
Tough love baby! There is no "secret way to get gear".
Sorry to sound like I am coming down on you, but it really sounds like you're begging for a hand out! I sure hope that isn't the case but judging from some of the comments people have emailed me ... more than a few think so.
OK, now that I've sounded like "Dad" here are some thoughts:
- If you go to work at a daily paper, most of them supply at least the minimum amount of gear these days. That is not always the case of course, but most reputable papers will issue their staff a digital body or two and 2 lenses (short zoom and long zoom) along with cards and a flash.
- Yes, obviously the 1D or the D1H is a more than adequate camera for a working photjournalist. We've been using them for several years and they have served us all well. And yes, there will probably be many 1D bodies hitting the used market because of the new Mark II. But prices for them even used is fiarly high because even though they are essentially obsolete, they are very good cameras/
- Johnathan ---
I guess I went to school a long time ago and the method that I (and many of my colleagues at the time like Barry Wong, who is now at the Seattle Times) used was ... working and saving our money.
I don't want to burst your bubble or sound mean, but there are no free rides in life ... especially in journalism. Paying one's dues and earning not only your reputation but your own personal gear takes hard work, time and sacrifice.
So what I am saying is ... short of some millionaire reading this thread, feeling benevolent and giving you the money to buy two professional digital camera bodies, 4 lenses, 2 flashes, 10 compact flash cards, camera bags and cases, extra batteries, a laptop computer and a partridge in a pear tree ... you may have to do what a lot of us did: work and save OR get a loan.
Of course in my day it didn't take $15k to get fully outfitted like everyone wants to be these days ... heck, Barry and I were *very* satisfied with a Nikkormat, 35mm (Barry went with the 28), 105mm and Vivitar 283 when we were in college.
Tough love baby! There is no "secret way to get gear".
Sorry to sound like I am coming down on you, but it really sounds like you're begging for a hand out! I'm sure that isn't the case but judging from some of the comments people have emailed me ... more than a few think so.
OK, now that I've sounded like "Dad" here are some thoughts:
- If you go to work for a daily paper, most of them supply at least the minimum amount of gear these days. That is not always the case of course, but most reputable papers will issue their staff a minimum of a digital body or two and 2 lenses (short zoom and long zoom) along with cards and a flash.
- Yes, obviously the 1D or the D1H are more than adequate for a working photojournalist. We've been using them for several years and they have served us all well. And yes, there will probably be many 1D bodies hitting the used market because of the new Mark II. But prices for them even used is fairly high because even though they are essentially obsolete, they are very good cameras. And in high demand. Check with good, solid dealers like Samy's, Roberts and Penn before hitting the eBay way ...
- If you do buy used, check out the camera well ... like find out who the previous owner was or better yet, what kind of work they did. For instance newspaper shooters are notoriously hard on gear. See if the seller has an idea of the number of shutter actuations ... this would be akin to knowing how many miles are on that used car. If the camera has been service recently, see if they can provide any paperwork, you can maybe track down what has been done to the camera in the past.
- Be patient ... don't drive yourself crazy with the thought that it's "all about the gear". Remember what guys like Rod Mar, Robert Seale, Brad Mangin and Peter Read Miller say: "Good photographers make good photographs regardless of what gear (or system) they use," (One of my favorite quotes of all time was a remark a picture editor made to me about Bill Luster before the start of the '92 Olympics: "Bill is such a great shooter he could make a great photo with a Coke bottle for a lens.")
- If you are having financial or budget difficulties, try to see a good financial planner or counselor (many schools provide this service through the student union) ... don't expect any receive any financial epiphanies on a message board.
I hope I didn't come across as some hard-ass curmudgeon --- that wasn't my intent. This is a very tough, competitive business that has become obsessed with gear (the digital revolution certainly has contributed greatly to this). Take inventory of what kind of photography you want to do, where you want to work and what the financial prospects are ahead for you ... and then map out your course.
Mahalo!
Hanashiro. |
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Erik Seo, Photographer
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Park City | UT | USA | Posted: 6:31 AM on 05.02.04 |
| ->> I do web design when I need to pay for new gear. |
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Alan Look, Photographer
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Bloomington | IL | United States | Posted: 11:41 AM on 05.02.04 |
| ->> Price of gear - the reason so many of us have 2 jobs..... |
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Cameron Davidson, Photographer
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Arlington | VA | USA | Posted: 10:26 PM on 05.02.04 |
->> Jonathan -
Yes, gear costs more (as a percentage) than it did for many photographers who started out ten or twenty years ago. I started out with a used Nikon kit with a few lenses - all purchased used from photographers I assisted. I often worked assistant days for the "older" equipment that these shooters no longer used.
The key is to start slow, don't go in to debt, try not to get caught up with the own-it-all-now set of emotions.
Yes, sports requires long glass and fairly expensive bodies. You should be able to pick up a 1D at a decent price - you can rent, beg or borrow long glass or do a trade out with another shooter - working as an assistant or in the office.
Some of the best shooters in the world use very little gear - take a look at Salgado, David Allan Harvey or Bill Allard. Harvey uses an M6 and a couple of lenses. Walter Callahan created an incredible series of DC images with an 8x10 pinhole camera. David Burnett shot camapign photos four years ago with a Holga. This time around he is using a Crown Graphic with a sixty-year old Aero Ektar lens. All of them have created memorable images using minimum equipment.
Basically, you need to save your money. If the equipment and your career are important to you - than all the other items in your life - like eating out, expensive dates, movies, etc. are going to have to take a back seat for a while.
In the long run, it is worth the minimal sacrifice you make in order to buy the gear you need. |
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Thad Parsons, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 11:39 PM on 05.02.04 |
->> Having been in your situation not that long ago, I offer some advice that has not been specifically touched on ...
How important is 'new' equipment? Is it more important than your car? More important than a nice place to live? The reason I ask is that some people spend more than they should on their dwellings and other people spend more than they should on their cars - not saying you are either but think about all of your expenses and see what is important. Do you have both a cell phone and a land line? Cut off the land line. Do not get sucked into using credit, it can bite you in the butt, and it will feel better to spend your own money.
... okay, you saved a little money to spend ...
DO NOT SPEND IT ON NEW EQUIPMENT !!!
Spend your money wisely ... which means used equipment. My first piece of new equipment once I seriously starting purchasing photography equipment was my 12th equipment purchase (and is still my only purchase of new equipment). I only did it because I felt that I needed the piece of equipment and there was not way to get it except to buy it new. To get where you want to be, make a plan ... what equipment and how important it is ... my current list is:
1) Toy Camera - Holga, Slit Camera, Pinhole, ...
2) second digital body
3) 2x TC
4) Longer glass
... okay, you have a list, let's purchase ...
Check the SS.com classifieds on an hourly basis to get the equipment that you need. Check every local camera shop that you know deals with used equipment. Check camera shops when you are away from your home. Check KEH.com & BH Photo Video regularly. Check the SS.com sponsors. Check e-bay. Basically, check everyplace and know your budget!
And the simple part, make pictures the entire time with the equipment that you have. It will make you a better photographer. |
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David Stoner, Photographer
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Atlanta | GA | USA | Posted: 11:53 PM on 05.02.04 |
->> Johnathan,
I gotta agree with the majority above. It's foolish to go into debt to get your gear...stay away from the credit cards. I DO regognize what your original question was, however. Some of the good ideas, both combining the above and my own opinion:
-Check with current pros, and attempt to work for/barter for their older equipment.
-eBay is tough, as so many people use it regularly, that prices run fairly high...but some good deals can be had...WATCH OUT FOR THE CONS on here...they're good, and you can lose if you're not careful.
-Work on planning your finances first, dropping the stuff you don't need. Personally, I'd keep my cell, but ditch my home phone, cable TV (need the internet), and eating out so much. If I did just that (personally), I'd have my gear in just a couple months, TOPS!
-Do NOT use credit cards!! They'll kill you in the end. Overall, if you don't have the work lined up first, you're likely to never be able to even pay off the interest...much less the principle amount. For a better understanding of my thoughts on this, read "The Total Money Makeover", by Dave Ramsey...an excellent book, that shows you what you can do with some motivation and drive.
-Use your connections with people you know - pros, family, etc...you never know where you can get extra equipment, jobs, money, etc.
I know it's tough. I'm shooting with a 70-200 right now...with a 300 (2.8) on my want list...but I'm holding out, trying to make sure that I earn the money first. Personally, I love shooting, so that alone keeps me going, but I don't have enough clients in place as of yet to justify the upgrade. Once you establish this frame of mind, however, you tend to have more time to come across better deals. I suspect, even once I have the money in hand, I'll still hold off until I find the deal that best suits me...rather than buying the new lens at the retail price. Either way, I win.
Good luck to you, and be PATIENT! |
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Johnathan Deo, Photographer, Student/Intern
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South San Francisco | CA | USA | Posted: 12:58 AM on 05.03.04 |
| ->> Hey guys, I'm really sorry if I came across as a guy looking for a handout. Now that I look at my first post, I can see how it could be misconstrued as that. I wouldn’t want to undermine people who have put in hard work and sacrifice to build a reputation and get good gear. I was really just looking for some sound advice. Such as: what places sell good gear for good prices, and what people can get by on with a shoestring budget. I was just testing the waters, I had no idea people would feel like I was expecting to have the photographic community stop and send me a couple of bodies and some telephoto lenses. I am new to the game, but I have really fallen in love with photography and was just looking for some help, not a handout. |
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Robert Stanton, Photographer
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Palo Alto | CA | United States | Posted: 1:15 AM on 05.03.04 |
| ->> another view from different background--same answer. experience--20 yrs as sr financial person and BOD officier. debt does not cut it unless you are making more money than the debt cost--and most people, come up short. you never want to get in debt unless it is a last resort. I had a lawyer who worked for me and teaches financial mgmt--why? this person had gone thru the same thing--had to have nice car and other things--got in over their head and things started to fall apart real fast. job ended too soon and next one didn't show up as soon as they planned--missed payments and so on. pay as you go and you will sleep well at night. some employers are even checking credit ratings, so don't mess yours up as it will be virtually impossible to fix. sorry, no creative answers here. |
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Cameron Davidson, Photographer
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Arlington | VA | USA | Posted: 6:48 AM on 05.03.04 |
->> Buying used gear - the best place I have found to buy used gear that is clean, looks decent, works great and is backed up by honest people is: keh.com.
KEH are based in Atlanta. They specialize in selling used professional equipment and are very helpful on the phone. I have purchased several Hasselblad, Canon and Leica lenses from them. They're rating system is conservative. The equipment is always cleaner and nicer than I expected.
They're not the cheapest - but the gear is good. |
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Mike Burley, Student/Intern
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Ventura | CA | USA | Posted: 1:22 PM on 05.03.04 |
->> Maybe a bit off topic, maybe not...
What do you all concider a good set of gear? what's bare bones for you pro's out there. |
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Thad Parsons, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 4:30 PM on 05.03.04 |
->> Looking for places to hunt for gear is the hard part ...
You live in CA, so check out Samy's ... be friendly and stop in ... knowing the right people help a lot in the search.
On another note, get real farmiliar with the actual cost of gear (know the current retail, used excellent, used good, & used ugly price for all the target pieces you want). Some people have mentioned this but I can tell you from my experience, you will never know when a good deal will fall into your lap (I found one for a 300/4 at a little camera store) and you need to know that it is a good deal. |
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Nathan Pier, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Madison | WI | USA | Posted: 3:11 PM on 05.04.04 |
| ->> As a regular withdrawer at the first bank of Mom, I have managed to get a pile of gear and several thousand dollars worth of debt... but at the same time I have all that I really need to do just about any job. You will find, I think, that even if you have to go into debt to buy some adaquate equipment you will be rewarded in the long run because it takes money to make money, that is, if you can't do digital delivery in a timly fashion you are automaticly ruled out of just about every job out there, or at least just about every one I have come across. Also, take a look at just about every job posting and notice that almost everyone requires knowledge of one digital system or another. It's an investment in your future employability to get a real DSLR and know how to use it. |
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Larry Vaughn, Photographer
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Gainesville | FL | usa | Posted: 3:22 PM on 05.04.04 |
| ->> I put two credit cards through my shredder after closing the accounts. When I get some state of the art photo equipment paid off (one year no interest) guess where the other two are going? |
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