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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Does anyone else think Photoshop 7 bites?
G.M. Andrews, Photographer
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Mobile | AL | USA | Posted: 8:13 PM on 12.04.03 |
->> After a full football season of using Photoshop 7, I really think Adobe took what was once a really useful application, and with a few changes here and there, turned it into a useless pile of code. Using 7 on deadline to file from football games on the road has been a giant pain in the arse.
Trying to use the brushes is a nightmare. I don't really need twenty or thirty brushes and patterns, I just want to switch from a 200 pixel brush for burning a hot spot down to using a 65 pixel brush for dodging out a face. Now I have to mouse through a palette from hell to find something close to what I want, then find this tiny slider to adjust the size. Whatever happend to the nice simple brushes palette from PS5?
Maybe Apple or Camera Bits should take note. It would be nice to have a simple app, kinda like a Photoshop for photojournalists without all the functions and features (and pricetag) that most of us never use on a day-to-day basis.
Just curious as to how some of my fellow SS.com'ers feel out there. |
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Michael Hickey, Photographer
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Muncie | IN | USA | Posted: 8:20 PM on 12.04.03 |
->> What's stopping you from using Photoshop 5?
I like 7 and CS just fine. |
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Delane Rouse, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Philadelphia | PA | US | Posted: 8:21 PM on 12.04.03 |
->> G.M...this is easy...just make your own custom brushes...get rid of what you don't need and call it a day. Ever make an action that takes you through your normal work flow? That always wrked for me when I was on deadline for AP..
It's PS for a reason.
Or you could try PS Elements? |
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Bob Ford, Photographer
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Lehighton | Pa | USA | Posted: 8:23 PM on 12.04.03 |
->> I hated finding brushes that way too, so I use the keyboard shortcuts now. The two bracket buttons to the right of the "P" will make the brushes bigger and smaller. Holding the shift key while pressing the backets will soften or harden the edges of the brushes.
If you haven't try it this way give it a go, I think you'll like it. |
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Mike McLaughlin, Photographer
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Neptune City | NJ | USA | Posted: 8:28 PM on 12.04.03 |
->> G.M. - For using brushes (and any other tool in Photoshop) there are keyboard shortcuts that cut the time of doing things hugely. Type "O" for dodge or burn, type "Shift+O" to toggle from dodge to burn to saturation, once you have the tool selected, type "[ or ]" to decrease or increease the brush size respectively.
I have many friends who I have tried to teach key commands and get them to use them who just don't want to. Well, what takes them a 1/2 hour, takes me about 10 minutes.
For someone who started using PS from the first version, and has taught it since 4.0, I have to say I like 7 quite a bit, not much different from 6, but a lot better than 5.
Give it a try. |
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Mike McLaughlin, Photographer
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Neptune City | NJ | USA | Posted: 8:29 PM on 12.04.03 |
| ->> Bob beat me to it ;) |
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Michael J. Treola, Photographer
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Neptune | NJ | USA | Posted: 8:37 PM on 12.04.03 |
->> Not to point fingers here but the problem is not with Photoshop but the end user. As mentioned above the brushes box is a completely user adjustable part of PS. Don't like any of the preset brushes then make your own which is super easy. This way you have only the brush YOU want.
I've also started to use the bracket keys full time a few weeks ago and it's way quicker to size brushes in small increments and a real timesaver sometimes.
For larger jumps in brush size I Control +click anywhere on the photo to get my floating brushes in which I would choose from my set of own brushes and click back onto the photo where the box disappears and I keep working.
PS is not a what you see is what you get kind of program. You can customize nearly every aspect of this great tool. If you need help on customizing your own set of brushes to improve your workflow by all means drop me an email.
Tree |
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Darren Whitley, Photographer
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Maryville | MO | USA | Posted: 9:41 PM on 12.04.03 |
| ->> One more thing. You can use the Tool Preset to set up a nice tidy set of presets you can use. Just go through pick out some you like and save each one as a Preset. This is particularly awesome when you need to quickly crop a photo to a 5x7 or 8x10. You can set up presets for the Crop tool. |
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Colin Corneau, Photographer
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Brandon | MB | Canada | Posted: 9:48 PM on 12.04.03 |
->> Photoshop Elements would be a cheap way to get the basics of the program, at a cheaper price...might be worth looking into if you haven't already.
And thanks to all for the great keyboard shortcuts! Damn, but I love this site... |
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Jeff Stanton, Photographer
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Tucson | AZ | USA | Posted: 10:45 PM on 12.04.03 |
->> I use a lot of shortcuts and I have set up a lot of actions to streamline my workload. Of course, this can be done in virtually every version of PS since at least V. 4.
I love PS7. I think some simple training and retention could make your PS experience a much happier one. |
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Tim Williams, Photographer
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Evansville | IN | USA | Posted: 10:50 PM on 12.04.03 |
->> I love the J-tool (Healing Brush) in 7. Just trying CS now... that color match seems useless, but maybe I don't understand.
The worse thing from 6 to 7 was batching files and not being able to have a default level for JPEG saves - in 7 the damn dialog box will pop up every time unless the file was saved from PS previously - then it knows the "level" of compression.
For instance I will run a de-noise cleanup filter on a lot of files directly from the camera when shot at higher ISO speeds... 6 has no problem saving at the last-used level. 7 waits for you to choose the compression level before saving each file. |
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Darren Whitley, Photographer
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Maryville | MO | USA | Posted: 11:10 PM on 12.04.03 |
->> Tim,
Just program your action as Save As... rather than Save. This programs the quality of JPEGs and you won't have to sit there hitting Enter with every photo.
Next time you run the action, you'll need to double-click the Save As line in the Actions Palette and point it to the new folder your Batch Processing. Just point it to the right folder and Save as one file and it's programmed for the entire process until you use the action on a new folder. |
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Delane Rouse, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Philadelphia | PA | US | Posted: 11:29 PM on 12.04.03 |
->> Tim,
The color match worked great for me, just keep playing with it. IF you want, you can send me the 2 files and I'll see what I can do with it...
dbr |
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Vincent Laforet, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 11:33 PM on 12.04.03 |
->> I think the start of this thread bites.. like others said... [ is for a smaller brush... ] is for a bigger brush...
the only useless peace of code is the one generated to start this thread |
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G.M. Andrews, Photographer
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Mobile | AL | USA | Posted: 12:02 AM on 12.05.03 |
->> Vincent-
Sorry. Didn't mean to offend you with this thread. I was just talking about my less than satisfactory exprience with the software.
I did get some productive responses and helpful tips that may make my Photoshop work a bit more productive. Thanks to all that offered them. (DW, thanks for the email!)
Piece. Oops, that's "Peace" |
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James Schaffer, Photographer
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Allston | MA | USA | Posted: 12:13 AM on 12.05.03 |
->> I must come somewhat to the defense of G.M. Photoshop is an excellent program but it seems to me over the past few versions Adobe has focused less and less on the photography aspect of Photoshop and more on its integration into web design workflow. Almost all Layer styles and a decent portion of Filters all exist to help speed the workflow of graphic designers who are attempting to create buttons, titles and other simple web art.
It has gotten very resource hungry like numerous other Adobe applications. But what hasn't. I think GM just needs to sit down one afternoon and rip through the program customizing it to his needs. While he may not like those brushes there are numerous other Photoshop users who enjoy and require the use of those brushes. |
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Delane Rouse, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Philadelphia | PA | US | Posted: 12:39 AM on 12.05.03 |
| ->> James...what else do you want PS to do for the photographer? The file browser is pretty good now, File Info via the file browser is fantastic. We edit, crop, rotate, resize, tone via photoshop. The new highlight/shadow function is awesome (I don't understand it yet, but it makes my pictures real pretty). All I want is a built in FTP program...that would be kewl! |
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Michael Coons, Photographer
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Agoura Hills | CA | USA | Posted: 1:23 AM on 12.05.03 |
->> To select a different brush size you can also use a 2 button mouse and right click on the photo to select a different size. I use it all the time and it's really fast.
What would be really cool would be voice operated shorcuts...as if I needed another reason to talk to my computer. |
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Robert Seale, Photographer
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Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 1:27 AM on 12.05.03 |
| ->> I love ps7 - if you don't like scrolling through brush choices - just use the master diameter sliding scale at the top of the brushes dialog box. |
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Tom Braid, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Edmonton | AB | Canada | Posted: 2:04 AM on 12.05.03 |
->> "the only useless peace of code is the one generated to start this thread."
HEAR, HEAR!! Vincent.
G.M. I do not think that you offend anyone with your comment you just frustrate them. It is just too easy to get frustrated with something and then just crap all over it with a sweeping comment like "turned it into a useless pile of code".
Fact is it is just not true. Many shooters out there in the newspaper world would kill (or at least injure someone) to get the chance to have Photoshop 7 in their work place!!! Most papers are still running Photoshop4.5 or 5 and if they are lucky 6.
I have seen other sweeping comments on posts (not from you) about how digital sucks and how they do not save money for companies......... say what?? Very frustrating to read because the fact is digital photography is great for newspaper and is does save tons of money.
There is always a better way to get things done and the one thing that this site offers everyone that is smart enough to be a member is that there is always someone out there that is better than you and whatever you need help with. All you have to do is ask for help.
Two of the top Photoshop 7 books that are out there for a good price are listed below. Maybe Santa (girlfriend/wife/loved one?) will buy you one if you ask.
Both books are loaded with tips.
Real World Adobe Photoshop 7 by David Blatner and Bruce Fraser:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0321115600/qid=1070605919/sr=2-2/ref...
and
The Photoshop Book for Digital Photographers by Scott Kelby
http://www.sportsshooter.com/education/book_profile.html?id=435 |
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Dianna Russell, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Springfield | MO | USA | Posted: 9:55 AM on 12.05.03 |
->> Tom,
I agree this is a great book and a must have:
The Photoshop Book for Digital Photographers by Scott Kelby
http://www.sportsshooter.com/education/book_profile.html?id=435
I have a question for those familiar with CS and PS7. Is there a major difference between the two? I want to upgrade from PS6.
Thanks.
Dianna |
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Ron Vesely, Photographer
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Woodridge | IL | USA | Posted: 10:35 AM on 12.05.03 |
->> Dianna-
I believe the major differences are:
1) The RAW converter is now a part of CS... it was a stand alone $99 plug-in for PS 7. The RAW converter is a must. This alone is worth going to CS (also since the stand alone plugin is not available from Adobe any longer).
2) The browser is supposed to be better in CS... I am still using PS 7 so I can't say for sure... the browser in 7 is helpful, but not, in my opinion, a replacement for Fotostation/Photo Mechanic. It will, however, help when working with RAW files and assist in other areas. I know Fotostation does not allow the user to caption RAW or regular TIFF files, so if you need to work in RAW mode, the CS browser is helpful. It also allows the user to select and open RAW files from the browser (the file opens into a RAW mode editing area).
3) CS added a highlight/shadow function that I hear is awesome. I guess kinda like when PS 7 added the healing brush.. a useful tool which is very helpful!
I might add a "second the motion" to yours and Tom's suggestion to purchase the Scott Kelby book. There are helpful shortcuts and tips that even a seasoned PS user can utilize to save time and improve the overall quality of your images.
>> GM- I suggest also spending some time on setting up "action pallete" automations as Jeff mentioned. I have set up different work flow action items that can quickly and easily perform many of the repetitive tasks that you find yourself doing and speed you along... they can even be run in "batch" mode to perform theses tasks to multiple images while you go get a cup of coffee or whatever...
For instance, I have one action item that automatically resizes images to 300 dpi, adds copyright information, and assigns Adobe 98 color to the image with one click of the mouse... also things like rotate, saturate, save as (I made different "save as" commands for 8, 10 and 12 compressions, as well as TIFF's) , unsharp mask.... Without these action items, I think I would still be editing my baseball stuff from last season! :)
>> Dianna- I suggest if your planning on upgrading from PS6 to go straight to CS.
Ron |
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Vincent Laforet, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 10:40 AM on 12.05.03 |
->> G.M.
You didn't offend me - don't worry. I hope I didn't offend you too much... just having a little fun. Was a little frustrated with people who put down things/people/programs on this board - prior to doing any research of their own... if you have a question - by all means feel free to ask/post - but don't go ahead and bash Photoshop "as a useless pile of code." |
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John Marshall Mantel, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 10:59 AM on 12.05.03 |
| ->> PS7 seems fine to me. I use it in a very basic way: Crop, size, levels, curves, unsharp mask, and I'm outta there. |
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Jamie Hickey, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Calgary | AB | Canada | Posted: 11:03 AM on 12.05.03 |
->> I bought The Photoshop Book for Digital Photographers and found TONS of useful stuff in it! - there's a bit of stuff that doesn't play into the newspaper world, but once you know how to do it - you can adapt it for when you shoot portraits, or candids of friends and family to ship off to the relatives. Very cool book. I also recommend Adobe Classroom in a Book if you are having trouble with Photoshop 7.
Having used 5.5, 6 and 7 (YAY FOR STUDENT DISCOUNTS!) I LOVE photoshop 7. I had to go from Photoshop 7 back down to Photoshop 6 for something the other day... man, frustration city! You just can't compare the two. Especially once you know the keyboard shortcuts. I don't use all of them, but I use the ones I need most frequently, like the bracket keys. If you don't like the brush menu, as mentioned above, you can edit the brush menu to include only what you want. Adobe Photoshop Classroom in a Book will tell you how to do this.
The only thing I ever had problems with were actions, because I kept overwriting my own files with them because I'd forget to put in a step and boggle the whole thing up. After I figured out what the step was I was missing, I was off to the races :-D
I will be buying Photoshop CS around the January time of year, after a classmate gave me a demo of what it can do. It was an amazing piece of technology, and it's only $369 Canadian for students, so you can't go wrong with that. |
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John Kavouris, Photographer
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Bartlett | IL | US | Posted: 11:10 AM on 12.05.03 |
->> I use Photoshop Elements 2.0 and it seems to do everything I need. The only thing it doesn't do (or at least I haven't figured it out yet) is automate a series of tasks... in PS 7 I think it's called actions.
Works fine when I'm on deadline. |
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Nick Doan, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Scottsdale | AZ | USA | Posted: 11:24 AM on 12.05.03 |
->> Dianna and Ron,
Just to expand on the new File Browser...I have pretty much started using it all the time now. It hasn't totally replaced PhotoMechanic for me; the captioning is still a lot easier there. It is a ton better than PS7's File Browser though.
Between the File Browser and the new ACR2.0, I am loving PS CS. |
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Michael J. Treola, Photographer
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Neptune | NJ | USA | Posted: 11:49 AM on 12.05.03 |
->> Does the new Image Browser allow you to scale thumbnails your liking or is it still a max of "large" To me there large is small to me. I also didn't see a way to tag images in the browser, select all tagged images and bring it into PS like say Photo Mechanic does.
I'll echo Ron's comments and say the RAW converter is worth the upgrade. I bought the stand alone at the time so to have it built in to PS CS is even better. |
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Nick Doan, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Scottsdale | AZ | USA | Posted: 12:02 PM on 12.05.03 |
->> Tree,
You can set a custom thumbnail size in the new File Browser, as well as resizing the display window. I have my display window at about 1/2 my workspace, and the thumbnails on the right. You can also FLAG the files, and select to display either Flagged, Unflagged, or both. You can then also select and open them all at once.
I work on the PC, but I'd imagine the interface is nearly the same for the Mac. |
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Tom Braid, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Edmonton | AB | Canada | Posted: 3:49 PM on 12.05.03 |
->> Dianna;
Do not waste the cash on PS 7 as the upgrade is the same price for CS is it not?
Now PEST is a fine program but CS blows it away with so many easy to use features. The Highlight and Shadow function replaces Curves that is worth it alone. It uses the right click on a three button mouse too. There are just so many things that will help you in CS over any Photoshop before. The upgrade price is pretty cheap considering.
Now here is the catch Photoshop Creative Suite (CS) it only runs on OSX or Windows XP no if and or butts about that. So if you are on OS9 or windows 98 you are stuck with PS7.
Here is another interesting thing that some shooters do not know about. As long as you have any licensed copy of Photoshop that being 3, 4 or whatever version you have you can upgrade straight to Photoshop CS directly at no extra charge. You do have to call a 1-800 number to get the unlock code to jump from 4 to CS but it can be done.
As well you can jump to the full Creative Suite which includes all the graphics programs that make you a desktop publisher if you have any licensed copy of Photoshop.
Adobe really wants to go after this market and have opened the door by doing this.
Hope the info helps.
T. |
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Tom Braid, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Edmonton | AB | Canada | Posted: 3:50 PM on 12.05.03 |
| ->> Whoops!!! That "Pest" second graph should read PS7 Dam spell checker!! :-) |
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Dianna Russell, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Springfield | MO | USA | Posted: 4:53 PM on 12.05.03 |
->> Thanks Ron and Nick. I have been anxious to try the healing tool in PS7. Now the RAW converter and highlight/shadow function in CS makes that version very attractive.
I have Windows XP and (Win98 on the laptop I just got from my brother.) I have been using ACDsee on both computers and really love it. I have used photo mechanic at the paper and like it on the Mac (it may be awhile before I can get a new Mac powerbook though.)
And Tom thanks for that valuable information. Maybe I can get the 800 number from their website?
Dianna |
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Tom Braid, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Edmonton | AB | Canada | Posted: 12:33 AM on 12.06.03 |
->> From what I have been told by Westworld Computers (local Mac retailer here) they all know the number but I will ask the Sales Manager for it and post it. Probably will not be till Monday unless someone else out there in SS land already knows it?
I like the fact you can jump from Photoshop "whatever number" and go straight to Photoshop CS (or 7 for that matter). Nice that they do not say you have to pay full price. A lot of shooters think that they do have to pay the full price. Not the case I have been told by three different people that are connected to Mac sales. |
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Sam Morris, Photographer
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Henderson (Las Vegas) | NV | USA | Posted: 2:31 AM on 12.06.03 |
| ->> No. It's a tool. Get over it. |
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Tom Braid, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Edmonton | AB | Canada | Posted: 3:31 PM on 12.10.03 |
->> Almost forgot about this info I was going to track down.
The number I was given by the local Mac and Adobe retailer for upgrading from much earlier Photoshop versions straight to CS is:
______
Hi Tom
Adobe customer service is 800-833-6687.
Photoshop upgrade rules should be on the Adobe site at www.adobe.com.
_________
If this does not work please let me know. |
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
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Amherst | MA | USA | Posted: 3:50 PM on 12.10.03 |
| ->> So no one else misses Photoshop v3.0.5 PowerPC running on their PB5300 (or possibly PB190, upgraded to PowerPC)? |
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Dirk Dewachter, Photographer, Assistant
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Playa Del Rey | CA | USA | Posted: 12:20 AM on 12.11.03 |
| ->> Photoshop 7 is like riding a bike, once you get rid of the training wheels it is all clear sailing. Shortcuts are your friend,learn them and your life will be a lot simpler. |
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