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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Shooting Hockey
George Herbert, Photographer
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Milton-Freewater | OR | USA | Posted: 2:27 AM on 11.12.02 |
| ->> I have seen a lot of Hockey shots that appear as thou the photographer was positioned on the ice. Of course I know that wasn't the case. I have always had to shot over the glass. Which is a higher angle. So tell me, are you Hockey shooters getting into the team boxes or are you getting these shots through the glass? |
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Robert Longhitano, Photographer
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Montgomeryville | PA | USA | Posted: 7:04 AM on 11.12.02 |
->> George,
I usually don’t have the luxury to shoot at the ice level photo positions. So depending on the rink, I'm forced to shoot through the glass. With a long lens (i.e 80-200 or 300) I dont notice any reflections. When I’m in a corner, sometimes I’ll use a wider lens to catch players coming into the boards. If you take off the lens shade and get the lens as close as the glass as possible, the glare is reduced. But be warned that the boards and glass give so on a hard check your camera WILL be forced into your head at an accelerated speed; I speak from experience .
Good luck
Rob |
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Randy Wilson, Photographer
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McDonough | GA | USA | Posted: 9:06 AM on 11.12.02 |
| ->> Most pro arenas have holes in the glass at both ends and it's an assigned area depending on the "pecking" order. It's fast and in your face. Lot's of ice spray and lot's of keeping your lens out of play for me it's the toughest sport and the only way to shoot hockey! |
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Ed J. Szalajeski, Photographer
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Yarmouth | ME | USA | Posted: 9:41 AM on 11.12.02 |
->> I am shooting at ice level in the team entrance ally, and the zamboni areas. (our rink has no portholes) I have been shooting close to the glass, I have not noticed too much glare.
What I hate, is the new netting at each end, anyone have a trick to shoot through that from High up?
So what lenses are people finding most useful? (I am using an 80-200, and a 300 for most shots.)
What wider-angle lenses are you all using for the checks? I am going to give that a try after getting my assignment done this weekend. |
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Robert Longhitano, Photographer
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Montgomeryville | PA | USA | Posted: 10:22 AM on 11.12.02 |
->> Ed,
I use my 28-70 lens for wide shots. The only problem using this lens (Nikon 28-70 AFS) is the lens moves in and out when you use the zoom (not done internally like the other AFS zooms). I found if you keep the lens as close to the glass as possible you can eliminate any glare.
rob |
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Michael J. Treola, Photographer
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Neptune | NJ | USA | Posted: 11:17 AM on 11.12.02 |
->> There are very few true ice-level shooting positions left in the NHL. I'm lucky enough to shoot at one at the Continental Airlines Arena while shooting the New Jersey Devils. I sit with a helmet next to the backup goalie who's also my unofficial guardian on the bench. Can't tell you how many times the backup goalie has caught a puck headed right for us in the box.
This is one of the most exciting, dangerous and hardest places to shoot from. You are constantly watching the puck and DUCKING when that pass or errand shot comes flying your way. And it happens LOTS!!! I've also seen lots of people get hurt in these positions. You’re also looking out for sticks and fights that on occasion end up literally on your lap. Check out my home page http://www.sportsshooter.com/members.html?id=41 and you'll see what I mean. This was from my ice level shooting position, you can actually see the end of the boards on the bottom left. I can tell you that if it weren’t from the helmet I was wearing, I would have been carted off the ice this day. A stick crashed upon my head hard enough to leave a gouge in my helmet. I'd hate to think about what would have happened if I didn't have my helmet on.
The action happens fast here. NEVER take your eye off the puck. You also have to contend with line changes that block your view., fights, flying pucks, sticks among other things, however the photos from this position are NICE!!. And when you nail an image here it 's far better then any other photo position in the building. I'll stay "down low" until they cart me off the ice one day. Then I'll rethink where I want to shoot from. |
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Robert Longhitano, Photographer
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Montgomeryville | PA | USA | Posted: 1:00 PM on 11.12.02 |
->> Michael,
Great shot! In some of the local rinks I shoot at I'm allowed to shoot from a similar position for HS games. I didn’t think positions like yours were still around at the NHL level. You should consider asking your paper for hazard pay!
rob |
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Phillip MacCallum, Photographer
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Carleton Place | ON | Canada | Posted: 1:50 PM on 11.12.02 |
->> The NHL rinks have one of two scenarios. Shooting holes at ice level big enough for an 80-200 f2.8 to fit through (but be careful because I've seen one photographer have his lens smashed to smithereens by a puck) or high quality glass that you can shoot through. If you're up close enough the reflection can be eliminated.
The Montreal photos in my portfolio are exclusively shot through glass and their is no quality lost. My one piece of advice for shooting through glass is to wear a dark top so as not to be the cause of your own troublesome reflection.
Hey Michael, my boss and I have a simple policy, if it hits us we keep it. Any luck with that stick that slammed you in the head?
Shooting in Ottawa, we do not have that between the benches photo position but hazard and all, I'm envious.
Phil |
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Robert Longhitano, Photographer
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Montgomeryville | PA | USA | Posted: 2:01 PM on 11.12.02 |
->> Phillip,
What lens did use for your main image with Ron Francis? I was thinking about using my 14mm (with a D1X)at my next game to get a similar perspective.
Rob |
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Ed J. Szalajeski, Photographer
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Yarmouth | ME | USA | Posted: 3:03 PM on 11.12.02 |
->> Now that we are all educated we should have a hockey photo contest.
I would suggest these categories:
1. Best action,
2. Best goalie save
3. And of course why we all love hockey, fights.
4. Maybe throw in a crazy fan, or artistic category. |
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Phillip MacCallum, Photographer
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Carleton Place | ON | Canada | Posted: 6:11 PM on 11.12.02 |
->> Rob
The photo of Todd White and Ron Francis was shot on film using a 15mm fisheye. I was directly in the corner of the rink with my face up against the glass. Good thing there wasn't a bodycheck or it would have hurt severely.
I have tried to recreate the image with other, maybe more recognizable players, but it is difficult to get everything to line up.
When I'm using two bodies at once I often will have the 70-200 on one and the fisheye on the other during power plays.
Power plays offer the best opportunity for this type of shot.
Good Luck |
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Robert Longhitano, Photographer
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Montgomeryville | PA | USA | Posted: 7:48 PM on 11.12.02 |
->> Thanks Phillip. IMHO you can’t beat the expression on the player’s faces when they are coming right at you after a loose puck in the corner. Sometimes you get the look of sheer terror because the poor defenseman knows he’s about to get shellacked into the boards. I'm defiantly going to go after a wider view at my next game.
Cheers,
rob |
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Andy Rogers, Photographer
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Denver | CO | USA | Posted: 8:02 PM on 11.12.02 |
| ->> If you don't have a hole to shoot through, I suggest using a home-made lens hood that extends away and out from the end of the barrell to prevent glare on the glass. I've seen lots of designs by photogs that are very wide and soft, so that they will move somewhat independently of the lens. This allows the hood to maintain contact with the glass while the lens moves from side to side/up and down. They're usually made with cardboard or wire and LOTS of gaffers tape. In my experience, with longer lenses (300-400mm), there can be significant distortion when shooting through the glass. I just try to shoot as close to perpendicular to the glass as possible to prevent this. Hope this is helpful. |
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Dave Cheng, Photographer, Assistant
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Toronto | ON | Canada | Posted: 8:46 PM on 11.12.02 |
| ->> You can use a 77mm rubber lens hood the same way on an 80-200. The flexibility of the hood lets you press it right up to the glass to prevent glare and reflections, yet provides a little bit of give so that you don't get a facefull of camera. |
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Robert Longhitano, Photographer
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Montgomeryville | PA | USA | Posted: 8:58 PM on 11.12.02 |
->> Wow, usually the simplest solution is right their in front of your face. Thanks for the tip Dave!
rob |
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Michael J. Treola, Photographer
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Neptune | NJ | USA | Posted: 9:40 PM on 11.12.02 |
->> Hazard Pay, what's that??. Wish I could get some of that. Its never going to happen though.
Phillip, I don't keep what comes into the bench. Almost instantly there is some little kid banging on the glass behind me for the puck I ALWAYS give it to a kid in the stands. I'll never forget getting a puck as a kid from a photographer many many years ago. I try to make a little hockey fan happy. There are times broken sticks end up in our pit but nothing is ever taken. We keep a very straight line in there, so we don't keep anything, we look out for others during play, be nice to fans and acknowledge the players that say hello to us.
You are all right when you say its hazardous but I love being down there, we see and photograph the game at such a different level and speed then you see from the above positions. Its fasts and furious. I actually want to get hit by the puck once, not in the face, but arm or chest just to feel what its like. I know its going to hurt like hell though but I'd like to feel once the punishment these player take day in and out.
Most NHL arena's are eliminating the on ice level positions like I shoot. The zamboni glass wholes are disappearing too. Shooting through the glass is becoming common and it more likely to be stay that way. For those of you new to shooting through holes in the glass be sure to move it away when the play comes at you. Its seems obvious but I tend to get tunnel vision as a play comes toward me and I don't move when I should have. Before you know its to late and your gear ( or you) takes a hit. I've seen lenses shattered, dents etc. I've seen a dent in a lens the shape of a finger that was implanted in the metal housing when a photographer was hit.
I'd like to hear some more suggestions for glass hoods. I like the rubber hood idea but I'd like something that's larger and allow the camera to swivel. Anyone want to expland on how they have there's?? |
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Andy Rogers, Photographer
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Denver | CO | USA | Posted: 10:55 AM on 11.13.02 |
->> Michael and all,
Here's an example of the type of design I'm talking about...just found this in the office. It's made of black mat stock, with a hole in it, some extra gaffers tape flaring off the lens side of the hole. I think with this one, you're supposed to just secure it with a rubberband around the tape. Photo of hood is the final pic on my page: http://www.sportsshooter.com/members.html?id=220 |
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Michael J. Treola, Photographer
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Neptune | NJ | USA | Posted: 1:23 PM on 11.13.02 |
->> OK I see what you mean now. Though I almost never shoot through glass, I'll remember the design of this hood. I like this version better then the rubber hood though the rubber hood is a great quick and easy solution.
Thanks |
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
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Amherst | MA | USA | Posted: 5:14 PM on 11.13.02 |
->> I don't shoot the NHL very often, but I do shoot lots of NCAA Div 1 hockey (about 25 games a season). With NCAA games you can at times shoot from the penelty box. I always shoot at least one period from the penelty box, sometimes a period from the home team bench (UMass' home bench is connected to the entrance ramp to the ice the players use. Shooting from these vantage points I am at ice level. In the four corners of the ice there are a total of four holes which you can slip an 80-200f.28 or 28-70f2.8 into (without a hood). Last season there were six holes on the ice, with the new NHL rules The Mullins Center removed two holes.
When shooting through glass I usually bring some Windex, clean off my shooting position, then use a sort of make shift lens hood made up of index cards and gaffers tape. If I am in the same position for a long period of time I bring a chair, then tape my "index card hood" to the glass to elminate any flare.
You can see some of my hockey images at the UMass Athletics web site, although not very big (and man do they screw up the image quality sometimes), at :
http://umassathletics.ocsn.com/sports/m-hockey/umas-m-hockey-body.html
The two goalie photos on the main page were shot from ice level from the players bench, as well if you click on some of the web stories you can see some other ice level images. |
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Bradley J. Penner, Photographer
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Aberdeen | NJ | USA | Posted: 10:01 PM on 11.14.02 |
| ->> Hey Mike, you absolutely do *NOT* want to get hit by a puck. I was *on* the ice shooting a team practice of my college's hockey team (RIT Tigers, anyone ever heard of them?)... It was a loose practice, none of them were wearing pads or helmets or anything, so when they invited me onto the ice to shoot I figured, what the hell. I decided to stand in the corner, up along the boards, and shoot (I only needed one shot of one player) diagonally across the middle of the rink while he took wrister after wrister. This way I was nowhere near the goal, which was his target. Well he missed his shot, it bounced square off the post, (DING!), and smashed me right in the knee! Even off of a riccochet it ripped a hole in my jeans! a millimeter higher and it'd have shattered my kneecap... The only thing I can remember being more painful was getting hit (ironically, in the other knee) by a baseball when I played in high school... but thats a whole 'nother story. |
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Robert Oliver, Photographer
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San Diego (Oceanside) | CA | USA | Posted: 10:20 PM on 11.14.02 |
->> Michael,
Be very careful what you ask for.
That's not a big challenge for the hockey gods, but it's a request I'm sure they are more than willing to fill.
If I were you I would go to a mini pee wee hockey game first chance and put yourself in a position to get "accidentally" hit by the puck.
Don't do this and you are guaranteed to be on the receiving end of the first real slapshot you end up near.
I know I've had some close calls and those things aren't soft or slow.
Puck is a bad word. Why do you think they came up with the term puck for those solid rubber frozen projectiles. Because it rhymes with another bad word that ends in uck. They also Suck.
RO |
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Michael J. Treola, Photographer
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Neptune | NJ | USA | Posted: 10:07 AM on 11.15.02 |
| ->> OK, Let me clarify. First I'm not asking to be hit. I don't raise my hand saying hit me, hit me. If it happens, and I know someday it WILL, so be it. Second, I play hockey with the big boys, I've taken hits, shots and thrown my body around with purple and orange bruises to prove! I know what it feels like first hand in a very physical adults league. Total hockey fan here. When I said I wanted to be hit I meant at the level the pros play but I wasn't asking to be hit, I just knew someday I would come and I would know. No big deal. |
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Jerome Davis, Photographer
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Rochester | NY | USA | Posted: 10:21 AM on 11.15.02 |
->> In my portfolio I shot some ice level, through the glass shots. Images 1, 2, 8, and 10 are through the glass. There was a big collision and I backed up from right on the glass. However, I returned during the 3rd period.
http://www.sportsshooter.com/members.html?id=642 |
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Shelly Castellano, Photographer, Assistant
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Huntington Beach | CA | USA | Posted: 10:49 AM on 11.15.02 |
| ->> Cool thread, I have been on the road but wanted to put my two cents in... Yes, hockey pucks HURT! Ice and Roller. But you gotta LOVE this sport! Images in my SS Portfolio are from all areas of the game. Bench, Remote overhead, Long overhead, ice level and 200 with 1.4 at the Olympics. I think that the key to shooting overhead & at ice level is to keep the background clean so whoever is using it can place type, etc.. When shooting in non-NHL arenas I like to find a spot with Glass (not plexi if possible) and clean it as best as I can, always wearing black and bring my handy old grey card that has been converted to black with tape & shrink wrap to put thru and around my lens to keep the fans around me wearing White (never fails) reflections out of the way. One suggestion.... during warmups watch out for the rookies who are PAID to get the puck thru the hole and make your life HELL if they win the bet! Its funny to watch but not when its happening to you! |
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Robert G. Stevens, Photographer
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Halifax | NS | Canada | Posted: 5:09 PM on 11.28.02 |
->> Geroge:
I think most of the shots you are referring to are shot through the glass from either end of the rink. You lose a bit of light, about a third of a stop and get a bit of a colour cast from the glass.
As for loss of sharpness and contrast, keeping the lens against the glass helps. Take the hood off the lens and just lean the lens on the glass as you shoot. If you have to tilt it side to side to get the action to the left or the right you will notice a drop in contrast and sharpness. The images are still usable though.
I put up a little private gallery page showing two shots taken within a few frames of each other. In one the players were skating almost straight in front of me. In the other, The action went to my left and the lens was at quite an angle to the glass (Laroque #41 shot). Keep in mind I was shooting a 180mm at f2 and the depth of field is pretty narrow. The Laroque shot that is pretty close and a full frame scan.
I also included a picture shot from the concourse and over the glass using a 400mm for comparison.
http://www.sportsshooter.com/robsteve/hockey/index.html |
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George Herbert, Photographer
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Milton-Freewater | OR | USA | Posted: 5:22 PM on 11.28.02 |
| ->> Thank you Robert and everyone else that has posted to this thread. This has given me a new look at shooting hockey. I have made a lens shade simiular to the one Andy shared with use. I will be trying it out this weekend. |
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Robert G. Stevens, Photographer
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Halifax | NS | Canada | Posted: 5:47 PM on 11.28.02 |
->> George:
Depending on the lens you use, forget the shade and put the lens right up on the glass. The distance between the glass and you lens will determine how badly the glass affects the picture. With a Canon 300 2.8, with out the shade mounted, there is a rubber lip to place against the glass.
Another point is the faster glass with the bigger front elements is affected less than the smaller lenses. When you put this piece of glass in front of a lens that resolves well above the ablilty of the film, the resolution lost is not as noticable. Take a lesser lens and the drop can be more dramatic.
Another note on the resolution issue is that I have heard a local photog mention that the first D1 could not produce sharp shots through the glass. This was when the Nikon D1 just came out and one of the local papers adopted them.
I don't know how the latest digitals fare through the glass. I will be shooting a game or two next week and have arranged to borrow a Canon 1D to see how it works shooting hockey at EI 1600. I will post to the message board when I see how it works. |
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Robert Longhitano, Photographer
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Montgomeryville | PA | USA | Posted: 8:34 PM on 11.28.02 |
->> Robert,
I can’t speak for the 1D but all the images in my gallery were shot with a Nikon D1H at ISO 800. All were available light, shot through the glass with either an 80-200 f2.8 or 28-70 f2.8. The light in the FU Spectrum isn’t too bad as long as I concentrated on the area in front of me from the goal line to blue line.
Rob |
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Robert G. Stevens, Photographer
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Halifax | NS | Canada | Posted: 9:07 PM on 11.28.02 |
->> Robert:
My comments on the D1 were from the original introduced about two or three years ago. He was shooting with a 300mm as well.
Your shots look pretty good. How do you do the white balance. I have never shot digital but I am familiar with the process. Do you white balance for the arena and leave it set there or do you use the automatic white balance.
Dealing with the odd lighting indoors is why I am thinking about digital. The digital will only be good for me if it does a decent job at EI 1600. |
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Robert Longhitano, Photographer
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Montgomeryville | PA | USA | Posted: 7:30 AM on 11.29.02 |
->> Robert,
Although I don’t do this (others say I should), use the custom WB setting. I just use one of the canned settings on the D1H and deal with the minor color correction in Photoshop. I found if you leave it on the “A” setting the colors are inconsistent frame to frame. Using the other setting the color might be wrong but at least there consistent. Makes it easer to do a batch correction if you have to.
rob |
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Larry W. Smith, Photographer
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Valley Center | KS | USA | Posted: 9:26 AM on 11.29.02 |
->> Robert G.
I am shooting the original D1 and have been since the day they came out, I shoot hockey but I usually use strobes. I move around but I have shot through the glass alot of the time using my D1 with different lenses. If your interested I don't have any hockey on my page here but you can look at some on my website under sports, anything that is eye level was shot through the glass with a D1. www.lwsphotos.com
Larry |
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