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SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board

Attn members; learn to write!
Phil Hawkins, Photographer
Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 12:56 PM on 05.04.12
->> Is it me or are we seeing more and more folks posting comments that you can't decipher due to VERY poor grammar, spelling, punctuation... C'mon folks; pay attention! It's hard to believe so many people have so little grasp of the English language. You have no excuse for making yourself look ignorant. I saw 3 posts yesterday from 3 different people within one thread in which I could not figure out what the person was saying. And the posts were not "iPhone-speak", they were real English sentences that you were supposed to learn how to write in the 5th grade. Unbelievable.

If yew caint lern to right, thin go back to skool.
 This post is:  Informative (16) | Funny (0) | Huh? (2) | Off Topic (0) | Inappropriate (3) |   Definitions

Svein Ove Ekornesvaag, Photographer
Aalesund | Møre og Romsdal | Norway | Posted: 1:07 PM on 05.04.12
->> For people who rarely speaks or write english it's not easy to write with perfect grammar, spelling and punctuation. English is not my first language.
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Max Waugh, Photographer
Bothell | WA | USA | Posted: 1:21 PM on 05.04.12
->> I'm not convinced that calling folks out for spelling/grammar issues on a board does much good. However, after seeing a couple of the posts in question, I do think it's safe to assume Phil is speaking to the US-based English speaking contingent, not our overseas colleagues.

Phil, have you considered that maybe they're simply missing a few punctuation keys on their keyboards?
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Nic Coury, Photographer
Monterey | CA | | Posted: 1:30 PM on 05.04.12
->> Speling is opshunal.
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Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 1:52 PM on 05.04.12
->> Especially when some of the members here are journalists!! English is NOT my first language, Spanish is. I speak Spanish to my wife, family and close friends from Puerto Rico and Latin America. This is NOT an excuse to write like a 5 year old. My eight year old, who is finishing the Second Grade, is capable of writing better than some in this forum. I'm not a master of English grammar, but I do the best I can with the little talent God gave me.
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 2:12 PM on 05.04.12
->> I'm pretty sure I know one of the postings Phil refers to - I read it several times and still couldn't understand what the poster was trying to communicate.

At the end of the day, communications between humans is difficult enough. Take a little bit of time and do your best to communicate effectively. As Yamil points out, most of us are journalists - you would think we could string words together in a cohesive form to transmit to others what we are trying to say........

Just my .02...
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Matt Cashore, Photographer
South Bend | IN | USA | Posted: 2:34 PM on 05.04.12
->> I write good. Theirs nothing wrong. I even spell checked this post, to.
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Luke Trottier, Photographer
Bath | ME | US | Posted: 2:36 PM on 05.04.12
->> It's auto-correct on iPhones, iPads, etc. People just need to re-read before they Publish.
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
Dallas | TX | US | Posted: 2:42 PM on 05.04.12
->> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyFpOp8Ft0Q
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Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 3:25 PM on 05.04.12
->> Luke is right, most of these grammatical errors come from Smart Phone Auto Correct. I have sent some totally ridiculous texts in the past!!

One of these days they will invent a Text device that you can talk into....;)
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Josh Peckler, Photographer
Yuma | AZ | | Posted: 3:40 PM on 05.04.12
->> Yamil,

You can actually do it with the new Ipad!! It actually works pretty well and I used it to write this post.

There are also apps for smart phones that do word dictation with your voice.
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Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 3:59 PM on 05.04.12
->> It was a joke ;)

The answer is a Cell Phone, nobody talk into them anymore, they just text!! ;)
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Matt Kartozian, Photographer
Scottsdale | AZ | USA | Posted: 4:19 PM on 05.04.12
->> http://tinyurl.com/87xauhu
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Doug Pizac, Photographer
Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 4:54 PM on 05.04.12
->> I’m in agreement that we all need to make sure our spelling and grammar is correct when posting comments -- especially when potential employers and maybe even clients do Internet background searches nowadays. If we can’t be professional enough to police ourselves, then how can we be expected to do that for companies we represent?

In addition to my own work I also teach photography courses at an art institute. One of the criteria for assignments is to have the metadata/caption info completed. And if the student doesn’t do it correctly he/she is heavily penalized. The photo could be A+ material in all the idea, execution, cropping, Photoshopping, etc. categories but if there is no embedded caption the work is given a “D” grade. Why? Because even if the photo is the greatest it means nothing to the editor if he/she doesn’t know who is pictured, when it was, where and who shot it. (The students do get a redo to correct mistakes and raise the grade.) This strictness has them quickly learn to spend a couple minutes to do it right in the beginning versus spending 15-30 minutes fixing everything and having to resubmit it later. By the end of the course they’re all on the right track to making future editors/employers/clients happy people.
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Shaun Ward, Photographer
Perth | Tayside | Scotland | Posted: 5:10 PM on 05.04.12
->> When i first read the title of this post I thought it was another thread on subsidising your photography income. Damn!
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David Seelig, Photographer
Hailey | ID | USA | Posted: 5:12 PM on 05.04.12
->> When I decide to be a writer I will call you guys up for lessons
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer, Photo Editor
PLANET | EARTH | | Posted: 6:17 PM on 05.04.12
->> !!!!!! I like to exclaim! whenever I write!!!!!!!!
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 7:39 PM on 05.04.12
->> I should add that on a board where the vast majority of members have Journalism degrees (and, therefore, had a lot of English classes in school), and the point of the board is to make contacts, network and hopefully find jobs or assignments, people sometimes do not represent themselves any better than they do. It's appalling. And just because you are foreign, you can still structure a sentence to be understood if not getting all the syntax perfect. And good job, there, Svein; you wrote a sentence in English the meaning of which could be understood. THAT'S what I'm talking about.
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer, Photo Editor
PLANET | EARTH | | Posted: 8:36 PM on 05.04.12
->> my good friend phil. I think your statement

"vast majority of members have Journalism degrees"

is almost as far fetched as Gingrich's colony on the moon stuff.
not wanting to be an ass. but I really don't think this is even close to being a fact. sorry
PS....I have no degree...none...nada...except for a doctoral degree in being an ass...which, unfortunately is NOT recognized by any colleges, just colleagues. 8)
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Ian L. Sitren, Photographer
Palm Springs | CA | USA | Posted: 8:57 PM on 05.04.12
->> Phil I agree! However I also agree that the point is lost on most. Let me make two points for anyone who might pay attention.

1. In my work I often write the stories that go with my photos. It is a selling point that I can do that. I did a monthly three year feature for one magazine where the deal was clinched when I said I could also write the story. And it paid me well. I have had the same experience with bigger features.

2. A few years ago I attended a multi day ASMP program "Strictly Business". There was often role playing like meeting and talking with someone regarding quoting a job or selling etc. I was very struck by the common theme of younger people not being able to intelligently hold a business conversation. Not at all, not even close. No clue.

Being able to communicate effectively, both in writing and verbally is a cornerstone to being successful.
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer, Photo Editor
PLANET | EARTH | | Posted: 9:15 PM on 05.04.12
->> and mr. sitren, might I add to your quote
"Being able to communicate effectively, both in writing and verbally is a cornerstone to being successful."

is a lost art.
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Bradley Wakoff, Photographer
Fort Collins | CO | USA | Posted: 10:24 PM on 05.04.12
->> I shared the title of this post with my wife, a published fiction writer, and a coworker, a science textbook editor; they both had a good laugh. The title alone contains three grammatical errors.

I'm not trying to knock Phil down; his intentions are true, he has an excellent point and his posts are among the higher quality contributions to this board. The exception proves the rule, as they say.
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Jim Colburn, Photographer
Omaha | NE | USA | Posted: 12:20 PM on 05.05.12
->> "THAT'S what I'm talking about."

Phil. Your next homework assignment is to write an understandable sentence in Norsk.
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
Dallas | TX | US | Posted: 4:23 PM on 05.05.12
->> Bradley -- thanks to you and your wife. I only caught two of those errors, but was remiss to give Phil shit.

And Phil -- since when did my profession become a proper noun? I'd love to agree with you, but ...
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Ron Alvey, Photographer
Dayton | OH | USA | Posted: 4:45 PM on 05.05.12
->> Please, somebody inform me on the thread or threads that got this started. I want to try and decipher them.
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Rodrigo Pena, Photographer
Beaumont | CA | USA | Posted: 5:16 PM on 05.05.12
->> And here I thought this was going to be a thread about photographers needing to learn excellent writing skills. In the photojournalists' world, reporters are doing more and more photography. It would be to the photographer's advantage to learn to write creative, sometimes humorous copy to accompany his or her photos.
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer, Photo Editor
PLANET | EARTH | | Posted: 7:16 PM on 05.05.12
->> sorry I offended one of newt's moon colony fans. inappropriate? that cracked me up.
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 12:32 PM on 05.06.12
->> Write on, Fill!
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 12:14 AM on 05.07.12
->> The Denver Post is going to layoff two-thirds of its copy editing staff. They clearly expect the remaining staff to take up the slack.

It's really a matter of survival. Journalists are expected to take on more roles. Writing clean copy is basic requirement. Seriously, If you can't follow basic grammar, usage and style rules, then get somebody to tutor you.

And yes, message boards count. There are too many people vying for each opening for me to figure out who is just being "casual" and who just can't spell.

--Mark
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Richard Uhlhorn, Photographer
Chelan Falls | WA | USA | Posted: 1:55 AM on 05.07.12
->> Mark... You are right on track. It is appalling the number of so-called photojournalists who either don't care, or don't know how to write a clean, crisp caption let alone write actual copy.

Writing, like photography, is a skill that all photographers should strive to learn.
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Doug McSchooler, Photographer
Avon | Indiana | United States | Posted: 8:31 AM on 05.07.12
->> I believe this fits within this topic:
I'm continually frustrated when I look at many of the galleries on this site produced by professionals that have NO information about the image provided in the caption.

Caption information is basic in all types of photography. Not only for those viewing the images now; but, when a disc of your images is discovered 100 years from now, wouldn't it be nice if they can learn as much as possible about the image from the embedded and well-written information on the files?

I emphasize, well-written. Photographers have a hard enough time being thought of as educated, well-read, and intellectual. Let's not make the argument any easier for the public by using poor grammar.
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Richard Orr, Photographer
Longmeadow | MA | USA | Posted: 2:04 PM on 05.07.12
->> Doug, I shoot for about about 20 colleges. I burn the disk and send them along to the SIDs.

I don't write a single caption. I've never worked for a publication (excluding a few stringer jobs.) So, not EVERY professional writes captions. And I have been making a living at this for 12 years....so I guess I am a professional. At least that is what my tax returns say.

On the flip side, I am appalled at the poor use of our language everywhere these days. What I do know is that if you can write a decent paper, or write a decent proposal you will make a lot more money.

I am kind of a grammar snob because I married a writer. We entertain ourselves during the day by pointing out errors we find online or in the papers. TV and Radio writing is just too easy to criticize these days.

There are days when I have to check to see if I am still living in the United States. I love immigrants. I disdain folks who move here that do not feel they have to assimilate into the general society.

But that is a much larger and more political discussion that does not belong here.
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Mark Sutton, Photographer
Herndon | VA | USA | Posted: 11:09 PM on 05.07.12
->> "I saw 3 posts yesterday from 3 different people within one thread in which I could not figure out what the person was saying."

Hey Phil,
Can you PLEASE share with us which post you are referring to? I clearly understand your point. Thanks!
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
Dallas | TX | US | Posted: 4:29 PM on 05.08.12
->> "Can you PLEASE share with us which post you are referring to?"

I don't think that's necessary. Why single people out?

And ...

"There are days when I have to check to see if I am still living in the United States. I love immigrants. I disdain folks who move here that do not feel they have to assimilate into the general society."

Really? Talk about a tangent there, big guy.

Listen, I dislike bad grammar as much as the next guy, but I also try to cut people some slack. I don't know what their background is -- whether they had decent schooling or not, or possibly had to overcome something like dyslexia.

Let's just try to all be a little more civil about this topic, please. Shaming folks is not the way to change hearts, minds or the ability to write intelligibly.

Cheers,

- gerry -
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 9:27 PM on 05.08.12
->> Mark, I kind of agree with G.J., that's not productive. I was only trying to encourage people to look at what they are about to post to at least make sure they can reasonably be understood.

I'm not sure, but I read it several times, and I don't see where I was slamming anyone other than those whose writing cannot be understood. I'm with G.J., I can give people a pass for bad grammar, bad spelling, iSpelling, etc, to the point that it can be understood. I'm not sure, however, what the relevance is as to whether they are from this country or not.
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Thread Title: Attn members; learn to write!
Thread Started By: Phil Hawkins
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