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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Skills have stalled
James Hendrix, Photographer
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Olathe | KS | USA | Posted: 2:56 PM on 07.19.11 |
->> I have been shooting youth sports for awhile and feel that my current skill set has stalled. Although my clients seem happy with the results and I am making sales, I want to do better and am not sure where to go.
I joined PPA last year and they have all kinds of workshops and classes that teach you better lighting in a controlled environment, poses, etc. But they do not have anything for shooting sports and learning better techniques.
Any advice on what I can do to keep improving my skills? |
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Derek Montgomery, Photographer
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Michael Granse, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 3:04 PM on 07.19.11 |
| ->> When you look at your work against that of people who you think are "better" than you, what is it about their work that you find lacking in your own? |
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Butch Miller, Photographer
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Lock Haven | PA | USA | Posted: 3:24 PM on 07.19.11 |
->> James ... any career path is a marathon run ... not a sprint ... eventually you are going to hit the "wall" ... you just have to keep running through that wall ...
If you stick with a particular vocation for any length of time there will always be periods of ebb and flow ... you'll find yourself experiencing varying degrees of excitement, anxiety, boredom, complacency and accomplishment and satisfaction ... some days you will work totally on auto-pilot utilizing reflexive response and realize you hadn't put much thought into what you were doing ... it just happened and you still came away with decent material ... other days you'll swear it was divine inspiration ... it's all good ...
The key is to stay interested, stay curious and keep plugging away seeking out something new (new for you that is ... like your OP for example ... is a positive first step) by experimenting and pondering "What if's" ... like choosing a vantage point for an event that is less traveled for a unique perspective ... but most important, stay humble, stay hungry ... both of those emotions can fuel your inspiration quite nicely ... |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 10:13 PM on 07.19.11 |
->> Butch is correct.. it's a journey. He and Michael both ask good questions.
If it's someone else's work well that's one thing.
But if it is a nagging feeling in your gut, well, that's something that's really important to listen to.
So often, we look at it the wrong way. It's not so much that we've stalled as it is we have discovered on a subliminal level that there's something better on a different level. We may not be able to verbalize it, but we know something isn't right.
Go here: http://www.sportsshooter.com/members.html?id=465
That's John Kim's SportsShooter page. John, iirc, just was part of a team that won a Pulitizer. One of the things I notice with you is that there are very few tight shots ( look at the bunt shot) on John's page. Your work looks like it was shot for the most part with the same lens at the same distance.
Might want to try something different focal length wise. Do something stupid, that breaks the rules. My bet is you're bored. You know there's something more - but what? And that, my friend, is a question only you can answer.
If there's a particular sport that you're not happy with, what is it you're not happy with? Can you verbalize it? Once you can ( and finding out can be hard work), what will it take to get where you want to go.
I don't know if getting the shot that tells "the story" is important to you, but when I started this year, I made a promise to myself to get more decisive moments - images that need no cutline - that tell the story. So far, it's going well. Even in baseball - a sport I'd do better in if I wasn't watching so much - I've gotten much better images.
In other words, set goals.
Finally, try to look at your work objectively. Where are you weak? Where do you want to improve? Let me give you a example. Next baseball season, I'm going to practice moving the camera to a spot automatically a lot harder... third baseman or the shortstop.
Why?
Because of this shot by Mark Terrill: http://www.sportsshooter.com/port_popup.html?mem_id=34&i_id=973095 That's a unbelievable image from the AP's best sports shooter in my opinion. It's from 2005. I've seen shots as good, but none better. It tells me that I need to work on reaction time ( and I'm old...so I'll need to ignore the voice in my head that says "you can't".
(And his brother Joey is the guy that turned me on to the power of lighting.Both are two of the best photographers anywhere imho).
There's lots to learn. Try something your head tells you can't do. Then go work on it - and then do the next thing.
FYI, I joined PPA this month. Looks good. Lots to learn :) |
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Dianna Russell, Photographer
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Springfield | MO | USA | Posted: 10:28 PM on 07.19.11 |
| ->> Great advice here. I was going to suggest on your days off to go shoot something completely different. Go take photos of something you wouldn't normally photograph. Take your camera and go walk around town with it and see what you end up with. It may just get you to see in a different way. Also, during the game, go shoot from somewhere you've never tried. |
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Patrick Fallon, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Houston | Texas | USA | Posted: 10:30 PM on 07.19.11 |
->> +1 For SportsShooter Academy
Though its not "sports" workshops - I would suggest you look at the Missouri Photo Workshop. It will teach you about building a story of images and seeing differently. Spending more time and developing a way of seeing beyond the norm.
http://www.mophotoworkshop.org/ |
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Dianna Russell, Photographer
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Springfield | MO | USA | Posted: 10:30 PM on 07.19.11 |
| ->> +1 for the Sports Shooter Academy. That would be an excellent thing for you to do. |
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Dianna Russell, Photographer
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Springfield | MO | USA | Posted: 10:32 PM on 07.19.11 |
| ->> Patrick ... pinch for a coke. Great minds ... |
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Shaun Ward, Photographer
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Perth | Tayside | Scotland | Posted: 3:06 AM on 07.20.11 |
| ->> Similar to what Diane says - find time to start a personal project or just shoot something different once in a while. I find this tends to give you a new way of looking at your normal work approaching it from a slightly different angle |
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Kevin Krows, Photographer
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Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 4:24 AM on 07.20.11 |
->> First, write this down a thousand times. "I am a work-in-progress!"
Second, the next event you shoot leave your monster glass at home and shoot the event with a wide lens. You'll see things you've never seen before.
Finally, never shoot from the same location twice. Mix it up.
A good friend and mentor once told me, "I can teach you everything I know about photography. What I can't teach you is how to use your eyes." |
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James Hendrix, Photographer
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Olathe | KS | USA | Posted: 1:02 PM on 07.26.11 |
->> I have read all the responses multiple times and now wanted to give my feedback.
I checked out the Sports Academy and the Missouri Photo Workshop. Both sound like a good investment. The one is Missouri is next to where I go for Boy Scout camp and that is only a couple of hours away. However, I am changing jobs this week and lost all my vacation so I will look into them next year.
As far as looking at other photographers work, I’ve only done that at the other forum I go to regularly called Nikon Café. About the only one that stands out is a photographer named Mike Mac. If I was going to a new level, his work would be a goal. I also realize I need to spend more time here and looking at the other galleries. A couple of links posted here show some amazing work.
However, I am really just judging my own work. I just feel I can do better and am looking for ways to improve my work. Michael Fisher mentions a great point about having the shot tell a story. I know I’m not doing too much of that as I am getting the peak action shots and feel I need to broaden my coverage.
Also mentioned my Michael was it looks like I am using the same lens from the same distance. This is very true. I shoot with a 300mm mounted to my D700 and I’m pretty much at the sidelines at most of the events. I had a rodeo last weekend and took my 28-105mm (widest I have) and used it at the bull riding and the goat events. Was a different perspective and will be editing those shots this evening.
Shaun and Diane – I am going to start a personal project that is unrelated to sports and see if I can get new and different views. Am just waiting for the weather to cool off a little as it will require traveling the back roads and my AC quit working in my car right before the heat wave hit my area.
I feel I also need some people to critique my work. I need people to be honest and if necessary, brutal. I’m not looking to get my ego stroked, just some honest advice so I know where to improve. Is there a place here to submit images or so I just use my member upload gallery? |
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Aaron Jaffe, Photographer, Student/Intern
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San Diego | CA | USA | Posted: 5:51 PM on 07.26.11 |
| ->> Is your nickname Jimmy? |
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Zach Ornitz, Photographer
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Syracuse | Ny | USA | Posted: 8:08 PM on 07.26.11 |
->> Try varying your use of glass. It'll force you to get more creative. It looks to me like everything on your member page was shot with a 300 or 400 2.8. Although that will make for clean backgrounds, the images will tend to look similar to everything your competition is shooting because it's safe and easy. Try taking some risks...
Oh, and they'll tell you this at SSA, so you can send me $650, if you like (just kidding). SSA is a lot of fun and learning baked into a short time frame. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 8:15 PM on 07.26.11 |
| ->> First off....be careful of who you take advice from. Go from there. |
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Tom Ewart, Photographer
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Bentonville | AR | USA | Posted: 8:26 AM on 07.27.11 |
->> James,
I would have to agree that there are some sessions at the big photographer's events that don't apply to your work, but there must have been something that was presented to you that you can adapt to what you do. I am a big proponent of education--and after over 24 years in the business I go into conventions with the attitude of what can I learn today--someone, somewhere might just know something. Even if it is a purely a studio photographer talking about lighting maybe they have a tool that they use or a lighting concept that you can use or adapt to your work or maybe you could add some more formal portrait work to what you offer. I have to admit that event type work isn't my primary thing but I do some, but photography is what I do and I am passionate about it, sometimes more that other times I do have to admit. I'll even sit in a beginning photographer session to see what people are being told about my profession, I may not agree but it's interesting to see their take on it and sometimes I'll pick up something I didn't know or think about in that way before.
I have been a long time member of PMA and have seen it evolve from a camera store and manafacturer show to a more photographer friendly show. PMA is paring the show up with CES which should be interesting to say the least. I attended PPA's Imaging USA a few years ago and it was interesting to say the least and hope to make it back to that show, but now will run back to back to PMA in 2012. I still have issues with the merit and degree system that PPA has--and it may work for some people, I'm just not a true believer, but they have some good education at the National and local group levels. And although I don't do a whole lot of weddings I have heard a lot of good things about WPPI and think that show is coming into it's own as force in Photography. One thing I highly recommend is don't pick one of the convention's "Tracts" and just take those classes which they prescribe for you--look for education outside what "Tract" you may consider yourself.
I am a two time alumni of Mr. Clarkson's Sports Photography Workshop (I'm so old it used to be run by the Maine Workshop the first time I attended). I know that the SSA is also a great event. I think the After Dark group has a interesting program that seems to be a collective hands on type education. The conventions offer a nice combination of things to look for the gear head in you on the show floor paired with some education at what I consider a real value for what you pay, but it is what you make of it and a lot of times it's the connections and tips and tricks you get out side of the formal education at those events. And yes I've had some really bad sessions and have even walked out of a few they were such an insult to photography mainly because the people really did not know what they were talking about and at such large events sometimes those presenters slip though.
All I can do is say keep your eyes open and keep up the good fight and maybe try something a little outside of what you have been doing--Photography is a big universe with lots of diversity from portraits, sports, weddings, editorial, products, corporate events, nature, wildlife and many other specialties within those categories--we can all learn from each other. |
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