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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Online Selling?
Denny Kyser, Photographer
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Russell | Pa. | United States of America | Posted: 12:13 AM on 07.15.11 |
->> For those who sell online through personal websites / templates how long do you have the images you shoot available?
I ask because over the years I have monitored my sales (not online) and find the sooner my clients view their images, the better my sales are.
I sell by projection for my portrait sales and schedule their viewing session with in a week of their session, even if I have to open up an evening for them.
After watching this over the past 5 years I have noticed people who view their images within a week spend an average of 25% more than if they wait 2-3 weeks. This is true even on repeat customers.
This tells me the sooner they have to choose, the more they spend.
My action shots have no call to action, meaning they can order when they want and I wonder if I put them up for a short period of time, if this would increase sales.
Has anyone tried this approach? |
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Jeff Gammons, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Niceville | Fl | USA | Posted: 1:08 AM on 07.15.11 |
| ->> I try to have everything loaded from an event the night of for this reason, they go home after the game and look for the pictures. If they aren't up they may forget to check back. I haven't and do not think I will have time constraints. I still have parents buy photos from the spring. A mom just orderd another $50 of prints a few days back. |
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James Spiker, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Tahoe Vista | CA | | Posted: 1:44 AM on 07.15.11 |
->> I think the best thing to do would to run a test in some way. Have a call to action some how at the game and then limit the availability to see if you get more sales quicker. However, if you find that the time constraint does compel people to buy, then perhaps try making the images available at the games only and provide prints on site.
Just my thoughts
Tony |
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Keith Coward, Photographer
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Charlotte | NC | USA | Posted: 7:21 AM on 07.15.11 |
->> Maybe a coupon for FREE SHIPPING for the first xx of days?
I leave my images up forever as well. And I do get more sales in the week following an event. I offer FREE SHIPPING coupons on the site for certain minimum dollar purchases, but don't have a good way to market my coupon and it's not used as much as I thought. |
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Denny Kyser, Photographer
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Russell | Pa. | United States of America | Posted: 7:57 AM on 07.15.11 |
->> Thanks guys, and I do agree you get some orders all through the year. On the other hand I have some people say I need to get on their and order, or I will wait until the season is over and then order.
I may try something this year and let everyone know the images will be up until I photograph another game for the same team, then the new gallery will replace the old.
I will miss a few down the road orders, but wonder if more people will order right away and more than make up for it.
The free shipping for XX days could be the best idea, kind of best of both worlds, or even a lower price for the first 10 days.
I will let everyone know how it works, whichever way I try. |
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Eric Canha, Photographer
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Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 8:36 AM on 07.15.11 |
->> Denny everyone buys on their own schedule. For me I keep high school images up for 5 years. The rational being that most parents put together scrapbooks just prior to graduation. The bulk of sales come in within the first 4 years,some actually wait until the kid is in their freshman year of college to pull the trigger. I used to take things down sooner but found that I was constantly re-posting images for customers who had kids graduating. The 'fee' for the re-posting of these games was $25 and was credited towards a purchase made within 30days of the gallery(ies) going live. Frankly is was a bigger PIA to have to repost 3 and 4 year old games and eventually I just came up with the 5 year model.
For youth I've been wrestling with different concepts. The one that I'll be testing soon will be a reverse "Early Bird" where prices bump gradually each year. Ten percent for each year after the first to cover 'storage' costs is what I'm currently considering.
I used to take tournaments down after a month (5-6 weeks truthfully) and yes there was a slight bump as the countdown timer at the top of the page ticked closer to the deletion date. I had the same repost policy for tournaments and decided in the end that taking the images down did more to limit income than to drive sales. In a prior post I spoke of a grandmother that spent over a hundred buck on scrapbook images of her granddaughter and then mom duplicated the order when she saw gramma's book. Those images went back to 2008.
Once I've taken images down I'll never sell them again. Rather than to take them down I'm looking for strategies that will allow me to pickup lost sales and to make the lifting of images from my site to FB less desirable... I'm thinking of a rainbow colored unicorn watermark with eye black and smirk..... just what a little leaguer or hs football player wants on his FB right? |
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Jim Pierce, Photographer
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Waltham | MA | USA | Posted: 9:29 AM on 07.15.11 |
->> Denny,
In my opinion leaving them up for the short time between games is not long enough, and you will loose sales. If you shoot both teams and never shoot one team again these will be up a very short time, unless you split out the two teams of one game into 2 different albums. In my instance this could be less than a week in most cases way too short of a time in my experince.
I have removed VERY little over the past 7/8 years. I did a large hockey tournament last February and still getting orders and orders for team CD's after they see all of the images and realise they can get them all of their team on disk.
I do not post my T&I but I never delete these either as I am still getting a few orders from last seasons pop warner and Hockey leagues I covered. Same order form they just mail it in.
Storage is too cheap to delete anything that is sellable.
Jim |
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Eric Canha, Photographer
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Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 10:23 AM on 07.15.11 |
| ->> I must have skimmed over the second sentence of your post. Jim is 100% correct. If you start deleting one game as the next is posted you're toast before you ever had any chance. At the very least if you are going to delete games do it by season and even then wait A WEEK after the awards night. |
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Denny Kyser, Photographer
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Russell | Pa. | United States of America | Posted: 10:59 AM on 07.15.11 |
->> Thanks guys, I have not been selling online long enough to see the longer term ordering.
I may raise my prices a certain percentage, then offer that amount as a discount if ordering in a specified time frame.
Maybe free shipping would be a better option as long as they hit a min order.
I am not looking to make a drastic change as I am quite happy with the way online sales has went for me for weddings and sports. Just noticed how much my sales were going up by getting customers back in quicker and wondered if it would work with online too.
For my children, seniors and family portraits online was a disaster. My averages were horrible and I will never offer that again. Luckily it was just a few trial customers but did not take long to realize it was not going to work for me. In my case, as long as people could share the images, even with a copyright on them, they were satisfied and orders were low. |
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Frank Lauri, Photographer
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Larksville | PA | USA | Posted: 10:59 AM on 07.15.11 |
->> Denny....I have images up from 2008 and yes I still get orders from back then. More current though...I get the most orders closer to the dates I shoot the events, however, parents like to use these as gifts for Christmas and I get considerable sales at that time of the year...especially for larger sizes and posters.
When I do senior pictures, I put them online for parents/relatives to review and I give approximately 30 days for those because they have been known to drag their feet with selection. |
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Butch Miller, Photographer
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Lock Haven | PA | USA | Posted: 4:17 PM on 07.15.11 |
->> I have found, for some clients, if you don't establish a deadline, they will NEVER place an order ... because they think they still have time to do it later ... placing a call to action with a deadline can help initiate a response from folks that have a tendency to procrastinate ...
Like others, I try to post images to my shopping cart as soon as technology and my schedule can allow ... many times, I can have a regular season game up before the kids have left the locker room ... I leave them posted until after the end of the school year and rotate them offline in time for the next season to start ... Server space isn't a concern ... but the ROI for maintaining tens of thousands of files for each sport spanning several years can get annoying and confusing ... I never throw away the originals, just take the web galleries off line ...
I see the spikes in sales are immediately after the event, then again at the holiday season ... then just prior to when the galleries expire ...
If a customer is interested in a specific event, I can re-activate recent galleries or repost older ones for those who may live outside the immediate area ... or clients are always welcome to stop in the studio and place an order in person from any set of images I have ever offered ... |
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Kevin Krows, Photographer
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Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 8:14 AM on 07.17.11 |
->> I do the same as Eric but with a little salsa added.
I have current galleries and archive galleries. Both have different price sheets with archive pricing being much higher.
I leave my school galleries in the current galleries until July 31st each year. Some moms are very busy and like the idea that they can wait until the summer to place their orders. Events, I move to archive in 90 days.
Clients can create Favorites Lists and moving galleries from current to archive doesn't impact those lists. Most of my archive sales are enlargements of prints my clients have already purchased. I also get sales from prints that parents didn't purchase (due to spending budgets)from previous years.
Overall, archive galleries are about 30% of my annual on-line sales. |
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Jason Jump, Photographer
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Humble | TX | USA | Posted: 5:59 PM on 07.17.11 |
->> I keep mine up for the entire year. The fall sport photos are expiring just as the summer begins. All of my games are listed in my archive and I charge $25 to have the photos reposted. The deposit then goes to their order. But if they don't order then I am paid for my time and effort of turning them back on.
I think the oldest I've had purchased are two years old. Although I have the photos since I started. |
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Jim Pierce, Photographer
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Waltham | MA | USA | Posted: 8:50 PM on 07.17.11 |
->> What is stopping everyone from just leaving them posted?? I feel one year is still way to short of a time period!! 5 years is a minimum. I frequently get T&I orders at the following season sport, LL orders that also include Hockey T&I and even LAST years LL and these are usually combined with action photos well over a year old, sometimes two.
People are busy so give them all the opportunity to buy that you can.
I guess if you are paying for space to keep these posted then that is one thing but if you don't why remove?
I use PR and no extra cost to keep them posted, I do pay the fee but in my eye worth it to not have to be my own IT person with a server etc. just a different overhead in my eye.
Jim |
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Paul Alesse, Photographer
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Centereach | NY | USA | Posted: 9:59 PM on 07.17.11 |
->> Here is the real problem though. Back in the day, having a physical print in your house was what you wanted. Not anymore though.
What I have been noticing more and more is that clients will save a bunch of photos in their favorites album and NEVER order. Why? Because they already have them. It's on their computer and just being able to see them whenever they want or show them to others when they come over or even email the link to friends and family is just like OWNING them. With the increase of Ipads, they can even take them wherever and whenever they want. Who needs a print? And as for the watermark all over it... doesn't matter. Seeing them is good enough.
Here is what I would love online ordering software to be able to do. It's not a 100% safeguard, but finds its strength in the the apathy of the general public that I think is equally problematic. Put your galleries up for 30 days. Let them save favorites, create carts, whatever they want. After 30 days, they have an option... send an order OR, pay a recurring monthly $5-$10 fee to allow images to remain in their favorites. I would bet just on general apathy, clients would simply allow the billing to recur for years before pulling the trigger on a $50 order. Think of it like a membership to a club or program that we all do. They bill you monthly. You may not even utilize it anymore, but the cancellation winds up low on the priority list because hey... it's only 10 bucks a month. When I was a kid, and had a membership to the Columbia record of the month, did I really want the Joan Jett album that was automatically sent to me??? NO. Did I forget to send it back and get billed for it? YES.
We have to change our thinking. We are counting on making money from the action of our clients. Let's do it in reverse. Let's bank on the NON ACTION of our clients.
I just don't know if there is an online photo software program out there that can do this yet. |
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Delane B. Rouse, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | US | Posted: 10:30 PM on 07.17.11 |
->> Paul-->
That's excellent. It can be done now, albeit it would still be a partially manual process and therein lies the problem.
I know it would take photo reflect 10 years to build something like that into the system but maybe exposure manager? One of my companies has at least 500 carts just sitting there generating no revenue. Te parents log in occasionally and look at the images...if I could bill them a 5 subscription on a monthly basis we could generate $2500/month for doing NOTHING. Ok, some would opt out so it would be more like $1250 but it would be more than enough for me to hire a full time customer tech/ service person To handle all the back end.
Maybe Tim at PhotoCart could roll something like this into his system.
Jim-that whole 5 year thing....sounds good but while you do get the occasional sale 2,3,5 years after the fact you missed out on what I call "hot sales" (sales 1-10 days after the event). It always feels good to get a sale from an event YEARS ago but your hot sales would be much higher with a shorter (30-45) day expiration date. I'm sure you'll disagree and neither of us will be "right" since there is more than one way to do business. I'm mostly concerned with maximizing profitability and revenue.
Delane |
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Butch Miller, Photographer
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Lock Haven | PA | USA | Posted: 11:38 PM on 07.17.11 |
->> Jim ... Paul nailed it ... Most everyone who does post their action images online get great traffic to their galleries with heaps and gobs of image views ... but those numbers compared to actual sales are not nearly the percentages many of us would like to see ... so I think Paul's idea of extracting a "maintenance" fee for extended viewing services makes sense (I may be stealing that one buddy ;-) ...)
+1 ... if it can be done, I'll bet Tim at PC could do it ...
I know folks are busy ... according to my research of my own sales, 70% of all my online sales orders (including portrait and other genres) are placed between the hours of 11 p.m. and 1 a.m. .... but ... there has to be a call to action to sell your product TODAY ... not maybe sell something in five years .... Heck ... want to know what my life is like the week before the yearbook deadline each January ... for senior portraits I shot from August through October .... and those folks dragging their feet ...
Five years? Wine I could understand that much time could be involved, youth and high school action sports images ... not so much ... not to mention ... who knows where I may be in five years ... that's why it is vital to make the sale TODAY ...
I'm having difficulty coming up with any other retail business that deals with time sensitive products that styles their business model on the potential of sales five years hence ... |
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Kevin Krows, Photographer
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Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 8:23 AM on 07.18.11 |
->> Paul:
Why not charge them an annual fee for the ability to create a favorites list? From a programming standpoint, wouldn't that be easier? If they don't want to pay for that service, no biggy. They can go back to tracking images with paper and pencil :). |
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Randy Sartin, Photographer, Assistant
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Knoxville | TN | USA | Posted: 11:12 AM on 07.18.11 |
| ->> This is most interesting...what if you simply charged $5 per month to access the galleries? You could offer to apply the $5 back towards any purchases made during their "30 day subscription". |
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Kevin Krows, Photographer
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Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 12:01 PM on 07.18.11 |
| ->> Randy - That might be harder to do. |
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Delane B. Rouse, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | US | Posted: 12:22 PM on 07.18.11 |
->> Kevin-->I think the easiest way is what Paul suggested. Put the images online for some period of time (30, 45 days, whatever). After that time period is over parents would have to pay a monthly subscription fee (I like $5 or $10) to view the images and have the opportunity to purchase.
The is another industry has this down to a science (not that I know ANYTHING about that "other" industry). But I *heard* that they give you a free 3, 5, maybe 7 day trial/preview and then you get billed every month. I have to imagine that the programming for this isn't rocket science.
There are TONS of websites that do it...Livebooks does it, photoshelter does it.
Personally I'd advertise the hell out of the "new service" that I would be offering the parents. Tell them how we are giving them this opportunity to view pictures for an unlimited (???) amount of time for only $5 or $10 bucks (per month). |
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Eric Canha, Photographer
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Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 12:22 PM on 07.18.11 |
->> I've thought of the subscription model in the past. The problem with it being one of programming and managing the subscriptions. Ultimately you are still faced with taking down the gallery(ies) and charging those who built carts while the gallery was active a set rate to keep their carts online. So for this to work you have to take down the galleries and that effectively ends the chances of selling anymore images from that gallery.
Delane while I agree with you that I want those 'hot sales' I do a decent number of collage prints for graduating seniors. For my customers to be able to pick images for their child's collage they have to be able to flip through the kid's 'career'. I guess I could activate or re-post games for those parents who are buying and building collages but then I would be spending even more time in the glow of my monitors. In my mind that sale was already there and now I'm working that much more to be able to complete it. One other point, if the galleries are down or gone, I am willing to bet that those parents who WERE going to order a graduation item will most likely pass and buy something else or even worse go hunting the newspaper's website.
I somewhat took my cue from the model that the real giants in the industry use. If you go to Getty and search for the 1975 Super Bowl the images are still there. No one (that I know of) at Getty is saying "Ya know those SOB's at SI have had 35 years to buy these lets take them down." Ditto for Maxpreps and ditto for the any newspaper that has online sales. So for me to throw up a block that would somehow make it EASIER for MY customer to land at one of THOSE sites and buy these is nuts. I'm not working in a vacuum, many times there are 2 or 3 shooters from the local paper(s) or other interests shooting right along side me.
Lets just look at one more 'Giant' that is very close to home...... I've lost track of how many times Brad has updated his count of images that he is making available from his FILM days. And yes I am very aware that Brad is working with images of 'pros' but that brings in the variable of market size and not aging of galleries and demand. Somehow I really doubt that Brad would be spending time having chromes scanned if it was that bad an idea. I'm not even advocating going to that extreme.... Just leaving what I've shot up for as long as practical. Isn't one of the tenets of what we're doing to be able to continue to make sales 10 and 20 years after we've shot the photo? My greatest victory will be the day someone buys photos of dad when he played football in high school.
E |
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Delane B. Rouse, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | US | Posted: 12:39 PM on 07.18.11 |
->> Eric...the difference is that those images (Getty, Brad, etc.) have a global interest forever.
For example, Robert "Tractor" Traylor passed away in May 2011. We know that Getty licensed images of him from their archives. When you do a search for "robert traylor dead" on Google there are currently 511,000 results.
Now...how many people are going to do a search for pictures of "Little Jimmy" 5 years after his playing career is over?
I understand that this is working for you...but based on what you and JIm say it would take at least 4 years to develop a business in your neck of the woods. |
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Butch Miller, Photographer
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Lock Haven | PA | USA | Posted: 1:20 PM on 07.18.11 |
->> "If you go to Getty and search for the 1975 Super Bowl the images are still there."
Seriously? You are comparing online stock portfolios to youth/high school sports galleries? ...
I think Fran Tarkenton, Terry Bradshaw, Jack Lambert and Carl Eller have had their images from that game for several decades ...
Now I do agree that there is always a market for Super Bowl images decades after the game is completed ... and many customers of such images, don't realize for years or even decades they need such images until then ... however, with youth/high school sports ... I think they KNOW if they really want the image the instant they view it, they really don't need a lustrum to figure it out ...
If it takes five years for Mom and Dad to pick which images they want in little Tommy's graduation collage ... and there is the risk of losing a sale because a client may not rather pick up a phone or stop by the office ... I'm with Delane ... that just doesn't sound like a business model that is worth the effort ... or will stand the test of time from a ROI perspective ... |
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 2:36 PM on 07.18.11 |
->> First, let me say there are bunch of good ideas here but I think everyone reading this needs to be aware what will work in one market will not work in another because competition, tradition and economics.
In addition to the subscription model, another model to consider is an advertising base model - or a combination of both. If your gallery and image pages are generating a significant number of pageviews, there is an opportunity to sell space on those pages to local businesses or recruit a sponsor for each game gallery.
In your community there are sure to be businesses who would like to have their brand, business name or product seen by potential customers. If you average 10-15,000 pageview/month and that each visitor views 7 pages per visit. If XYZ Computing places an ad with you, it will be seen at least 8,000 times be month and each viewer will see it 7 times before leaving our site thus reinforcing their brand or business name. |
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 3:23 PM on 07.18.11 |
->> Butch wrote: "Seriously? You are comparing online stock portfolios to youth/high school sports galleries?"
Like Eric, I would easily compare the two. I see a few orders once a quarter for images shot three to five years ago.
My philosophy is every photograph is piece of inventory. If my inventory sits in the stock room I'm not going to be able to move it on the open market. Everything posted to our site stays there unless the high-res file is no longer available. As my inventory grows and I continue to add image that were not published initially, I expect these that number grow. The oldest dated inventory available online starts in 2002.
As many of us know, a lot of parents don’t order photos because they may not value photography. They may not be able to afford them or while the memory is valuable to their athlete, it may not be valuable enough to purchase a photo or dozen during their prep career. Heck, the athlete or parent may not even have known about your site or during their initial visit missed the five or six images you have of their athlete.
I keep everything online because those athletes grow up to become adults with an income of their own and may one day. At some point, whether it is the need to relive the ‘glory days’, images to impress their offspring or a gift to a teammate or wanting to have a photo document their athletic achievement; I expect archive photo sales volume to grow as more and more of the athletes I covered five to eight years ago become financially independent and/or parents of athletes.
Then again, I make it easy for parents, family members and athletes to find. Nearly, every file that goes online is captioned and keyworded. The name of any recognizable person, the name of the school, date and location are required in every IPTC caption field. Goggle indexes the site every 48-72 hours making it easy for people to find their photo(s) or pictures of the person they were looking for on my site.
Delane wrote: “Eric...the difference is that those images (Getty, Brad, etc.) have a global interest forever. …For example, Robert "Tractor" Traylor passed away in May 2011….”
At least in my case, the images we display and make available have a global interest as well. More importantly, they have a community interest forever. An athlete and his father passed away last summer in a terrible auto accident. Google continues to refer traffic to our site when their name is the search parameter.
Delane also wrote: “...how many people are going to do a search for pictures of "Little Jimmy" 5 years after his playing career is over?”
You might be pleasantly surprised, sir. More than half of the PhotoNews’ traffic comes from people doing searches on their names or the name of their athlete. If the images were not captioned as I mentioned above, I would never enjoy the traffic or the additional sales volume because Google would not have indexed those pages.
Paul wrote: “…they already have them. It's on their computer and just being able to see them whenever they want or show them to others when they come over or even email the link to friends and family is just like OWNING them.”
Many do ‘own’ them or at least have a decent (keep in mind decent not for a photographer is not the same as decent for the consumer who has a lower quality threshold) print of what is posted. Where a lot of photographers shoot themselves in the wallet IMHO is by offering preview images that are too large. 400x600 or larger preview, even with a watermark, is an invitation to simply copy the image, print a 4x6 on the home inkjet printer and stick it in a scrapbook. My wallet stopped getting shot up after a parent alerted me that several others from her school were downloading the 500px images and doing exactly as I mentioned above. When I dropped the max size to 420px on the long side, my sales from that school almost doubled. |
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 4:19 PM on 07.18.11 |
->> Addressing the subscription model discussion, I certainly believe it is the right direction. The challenge will be finding a model that works well with in a photographer’s market, priced at an affordable level for the general market/community and developing the online infrastructure necessary to be successful. I think it will be, and should be a slow transition from free unlimited access to sport galleries to a subscription fee for access by customers.
Right now, any one can go to a subscription model using PayPal’s automatically billing and subscription modules. I used in a limited market study two years ago offering a download service to subscribers. It is fast and easy to implement if you have a site that allows you to control access to your galleries. You can offer a free evaluation period, which automatically begins billing the client for specific time period on monthly, quarterly or annual basis.
I have new subscription model that I am preparing to test this fall. Currently, I’m considering three approaches, which resemble business plans similar to netflix, Comcast/mediacom and that of Redbox. |
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Eric Canha, Photographer
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Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 4:29 PM on 07.18.11 |
->> OMG Butch it may be possible that you are missing the forest for the trees..... Just saying.
There is a market for those (1975) photos because they are available. There ISN'T a market for youth action sports photos because there really hasn't, until very recently, been an economical way of developing it. Lets face it up until 'recently' images of youth sports were relegated to family snapshots and or the league T&I shot. I have this memory of a photo of a VERY young Tiger Woods on a green. That photo was used in TV, magazines and e-zine stories. I have to wonder if there were armies of shooters 25 years ago shooting youth sports and putting up searchable galleries if & when these young athletes make it to pro status if those images won't have licensing potential. I think that they will.
A few years ago one of the student athletes that I had shot was now an Olympic swimmer..... within an hour of her making Team USA I had her images keyword-ed, caption, and on PhotoShelter. I had (have) several images of her winning state titles..... me and plenty of other outlets too.... so the question isn't whether there would have been demand.... but who's images would have been easiest to find and license. Unfortunately she didn't win big but it did open my eyes to the fact that I was playing catch up for potential sales. Had she won gold the race would be on to put out bio / background stories and I want to at least be able to compete for those dollars.
We've talked about how kids' sports are getting more and more commercialized/monetized. This is just one more step along the way. Again it is an emerging market and IMHO one mistake is to assume that these photos are worthless or don't have global appeal because these are children. VERY short sighted. Who knows I may have photos of the next Tom Brady or Obama or Bobby Orr.... He's only 9 right now... But 10 or 15 years from now........ Can you begin to even imagine what a net-cam photo of a 9 year old Bobby Orr making a goal would have been worth to put up against his Bruins photo?
Clark 100% of my hosting as well as some of the widgets and gadgets that I have used on my site are paid by my Google ads. |
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Denny Kyser, Photographer
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Russell | Pa. | United States of America | Posted: 4:57 PM on 07.18.11 |
->> Thanks everyone for all the input I had never considered some of the ideas you guys have shared.
I size my web images to be printed up to a 8X12, so I am not taking up too much storage space anyways. If they want images larger than that, I want to custom print it and mount it myself.
I may even go back and put some galleries back on that I took off, never know when an image will be needed.
One other thing I love about online sales is that you have an off site location that photos are stored in case of a disaster. I keep images backed up on raid drives and externals that are kept in the gun safe, but you still never know. |
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Jim Pierce, Photographer
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Waltham | MA | USA | Posted: 7:25 PM on 07.18.11 |
->> @Butch I agree the traffic is there but they are not at the same levels or even a close ratio to sales. However, for my HS albums I already have framed prints/collages sold so they seniors and parents know they are getting an 11x14 print in a 16x20 frame at the banquet. Once I deliver the frames to the banquet and display them, all of the other Non senior parents (freshman, sophomores and Juniors) inquire who did these etc. I leave a bunch of cards. The next day is when the online orders start and request for similar framed prints/collages. I do not shoot on spec much as I work with many HS's and teams Boosters and get a plan prior to even shooting. With the exception of some local hockey tournaments it is all preorders, and even some of the teams in the tournaments preorder team Cd's and after the first day of having images on display, I get many specific player requests for framed or plaqued items that I have onsite the next day to deliver.
I do not think the subscription approach would work in my area, but I could be wrong and will inquire with my close customers on the thought of a paid service to view after a certain period of time. I think if I put a limit on it it would just encourage screen captures quicker especially for the ones that aren't going to buy anyway.
@delane, I am not missing out on any of the "hot sales" after the event. I have them BEFORE the event most of the time, as I described above. And yes it is working and did not take 4 years.
I still don't understand why take images down, why hide inventory? keep it on display unless it is too costly.
Jim |
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Delane B. Rouse, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | US | Posted: 9:43 PM on 07.18.11 |
->> Jim said "I still don't understand why take images down, why hide inventory? keep it on display unless it is too costly/"
#1 -In Philadelphia/NJ and DC/Northern Virginia markets, sales are considerably lower if there is no expiration date listed on the events front page. 18 months after an event I've seen parents at the dentist/field/school and asked they always ask if the pics are still online.
#2 -In Philadelphia/NJ and DC/Northern Virginia markets we know that parents will view the pictures for months and months and as soon as we remove them we get phone calls with all the excuses (computer was broken, grandma died, etc.) with request to put the images back online so they can order
#3- I agree that prepaid orders where you know the MINIMUM amount you'll make is the best way to be successful in this business.
I think the subscription method will work in any market. I think you/me/anyone would have some resistance from the current client base because they never like anything different. Adult entertainment subscriptions work in EVERY market...
dbr |
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Richard Uhlhorn, Photographer
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Chelan Falls | WA | USA | Posted: 11:45 PM on 07.18.11 |
->> Just tonight I received an order from an event last July. Interesting because I just finished shooting the same event this past weekend. It seems to kick some sales loose from previous events of the same nature.
Rich |
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Jim Pierce, Photographer
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Waltham | MA | USA | Posted: 9:12 PM on 07.19.11 |
->> Rich,
I see this almost EVERY sports season. LL is over but I have Pop Warner and Hockey coming up and will get a dozen or so LL orders when I am doing Pop warner and hockey T&I. I will also get a handfull or orders from last years Pop warner and hockey T&I. In addition they will ask about last years LL and Pop warner and Hockey action, I will say they are still posted and get orders within days.
Just worked up a Pop warner framed collage from last year as well as a player disk, all from keeping them online.
I actually had a parent drop off checks for last falls HS field hockey seniors who wanted the collages that the team did not buy... the parents knew I did this for other sports and wanted them, so one parent called and placed a nice order for 5 framed collages of the seniors, based on what was online. If these were taken down after 30-40 days, 6 months, etc, I would be out of luck. The best part is I will be doing more field hockey with more pre-orders this fall.
Obviously there is more than one way to skin a cat and if taking images down after a period helps your revenue then that is what I would do too and if it helps keeping them posted then do that as well.
Delane you are correct change is tough for some and I will be investigating this soon, However I am wondering how you would allow the people who paid the monthly fee to view the images and not allow the poeple that don't? I am assuming it would be a username and login password? So my next question how are you going to stop one person from subscribing and then forwarding on the username and Password? The kids will have this spread through the school in a nano second.
JIm |
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Delane B. Rouse, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | US | Posted: 10:53 PM on 07.19.11 |
->> I don't think that kids won't pay a monthly fee...the parents will.
And while they can share the access, it's unlikely since they usually log in with their email address and their standard password. I wouldn't share the password I use on 90% of the internet with the other parents...but that's just me. |
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Eric Canha, Photographer
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Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 8:59 AM on 07.20.11 |
->> Delane I'm not really looking to keep this thread alive but thought that I would throw in some first hand knowledge on the password sharing. YOU may not share the password.... NOW.... Give it 10 years and between wanting grandparents to see this photo or that one, or to show off an event that the kids were in.....
I know for a fact (tracking cookies are a wonderful thing) that when I did password protect galleries, whether as part of the $25 re-listing deposit or with my seniors the passwords were broadcast far and wide. With the case of seniors the server log would show 4 or 5 different IP's logged in at the same time to one gallery. This was one of the biggest reasons that I completely stopped passwording ANY gallery. I had no control over what happened to that password and it offered a VERY false sense of security. I've seen kids (and parents too) post the login/password to various things on Facebook that they want to share.
As for who will pay for the subscription.... The parents MAY but the reality is the more and more kids have their own debit cards and in the not too distant future things like e-wallets attached to cell phones will change how 'kids' can spend their money. This may not be an issue for 9 year olds but once they hit that tweener stage they have the tools. Of course that opens a new can of worms with 12 year olds having the tools to make online transactions and the legal woes of collecting data from them.... |
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Delane B. Rouse, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | US | Posted: 12:44 PM on 07.20.11 |
| ->> Good point Eric |
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Phillip Davies, Photographer
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Garden City | NY | US | Posted: 8:36 PM on 09.11.11 |
->> We've got about half a million images online most of them from high school sports in our area. Our archive dates back to 2005 when we put up our own site. A few comments in regard to issues brought up by this thread, based on our experience...
1. We get sales from our archive all the time. keep your images live.
2. We have an early purchase feature that gives buyers a discount if they purchase the images within X days of the event. This increase early sales.
3. Pre-orders are the way to go if you can do them.
4. Our software allows us to view incomplete shopping carts and do follow-ups with buyers. This helps us close old carts.
5. We also run ads on our system. It does generate some revenue, but we could do better with this. |
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