SportsShooter.com - Getting Hired By Newspaper?

	Russell \| Pa. \| United States of America \| Posted: 12:18 PM on 07.11.11
	->> I should add that athletic directors, coaches, yearbook staff and students ask me to be there, I shoot for the yearbooks as well as my personal site.

Andrew Link, Photo Editor, Photographer

	Winona \| MN \| USA \| Posted: 12:21 PM on 07.11.11
	->> If you offer to shoot for little or free at first, good luck getting them to pay you more later. They will just find another cheap photographer. Quality isn't as important as just getting an event covered.

Denny Kyser, Photographer

Russell | Pa. | United States of America | Posted: 12:47 PM on 07.11.11

->> Thanks guys, since I do pretty well selling the shots I get, this may be something I do not want to do anyways.

I am not sure how it works if you shoot for them, if you can also sell the images.

Do any of you make decent money working for small town newspapers, or would it take a large city to pay more than parents will pay?

My thinking was that if the newspaper knew I was going to be there anyways, since shooting for the school, he could send his photog to another event but this does not seem to be the approach they take.

Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer

Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 1:00 PM on 07.11.11

->> Denny,

A little more reality check for you.

First, in regards to quality of images, comparing your work and that of the photographer(s) from the paper is like comparing apples and oranges. There is thing called deadline that they have to deal with that you likely don't. He or she is likely there for one quarter, a half at the most or have just three innings to shoot and then must either go to another assignment or process their images for publication. In the case of high school and youth sports, that doesn't happen until much later in the game and usually soon after he/she has left the field. Try shooting two or three football, baseball or volleyball games in an evening and compare that to what you would get if you shot one entire game as you likely do now.

Second, while you are focused on making great action photos to sell to the parents, newspaper photographers, generally speaking, have a much different mission. They are looking to make images that either support the story by the writer covering the event or is visual story unto itself. An isolation shot of basketball player shooting a jump shot during the game isn't a story telling image. A shot at the buzzer with the team standing, hands clasped and wide-eye in the background is.

Third, you missed that boat - "Getting Hired By Newspaper(sic)" by four or five years.

Newspapers (any publication for that matter) has this major roadblock to using freelance as well as staff created art called budgets. The newspaper business has been in a steady decline for the past five years or so. The paper needs to be able to reconcile the cost of production cost against income for advertising sales and subscriptions, which if you have been paying attention to the industry is a battle that has not exactly been all that good given the current economic state. The issue has nothing to do with the quality of your photos, but more to do with the financial aspects to running their business and keeping it afloat or profitable.

For the paper to seriously look at what you have to offer, you must be able to convince the publisher by using your work, the paper will benefit by generating more ad revenue and reader loyalty.

Those three points aside, as mentioned above, "You should coordinate with their editor and arrange to shoot unstaffed events." But even that will not guarantee the news publication will take advantage of your services.

Your first step, needs to be the creation of a portfolio of your best images, and not just action images, but also capture the emotion, pageantry, intensity or beauty of sports competition. The images need to be caption using the correct style.

Your second step, if you haven't already done so, is to meet with the managing editor or publisher. You should let them know you are available, what you can bring to the table that the other five to ten other individuals who want to supply them with photos can not and learn what their needs are today and in the future.

From personal experience, I started shooting sports for a weekly in late 2005. By February of 2006, 1/3 of the paper was margin to margin content, photo and sports stories, I provided. During the first three months of our relationship his advertising revenue grew such that he went from an 12 page weekly broadsheet to 16 pages. While it was a free, direct mailed paper, readers came in to buy extra copies, his out of area subscriptions grew. He sold the paper in Nov. of 2007, a year later the new owners discontinued our relationship, and today, the paper is no more than a loss leader for the parent company.

Andrew: "Also, you are aware newspapers pay a really low amount for photos?"

Driven by the need to stay within a certain budget, you will find the licensing fees pretty low until the publisher or editorial staff come to appreciate your professionalism, ability to deliver on deadline and dependability.

If the papers in your area don't have the budgets to use your work on a regular basis, then the other option to seriously consider if you have the drive and ambition, would be to publish your own weekly, monthly, quarterly paper or magazine. There are some major advantages in this approach.

First, you will retain all the rights to the images (and other content) you publish. Second, if done right, the publication should not only promote your brand and other studio services that you offer, but drive more traffic to your site thus increasing awareness of your sports site as well as your print sales. Third, any excess revenue generated above your production costs from your advertising sales/subscriptions/reprint sales goes into your bank account.

Denny Kyser, Photographer

Russell | Pa. | United States of America | Posted: 1:11 PM on 07.11.11

->> Thanks for the info everyone, and I see most of your points.

As far as I shouldn't be there because they have a photographer there is not correct. I am paid by the school to great action photos of my choice through out the year. I am not a weekend warrior, I make 100% of our family income from photography and in this day and time can not afford to give up any area that is profitable.

I was only wondering if there was a way to kill two birds with one stone.

Stanley, great video and very informative.

Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer

Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 1:37 PM on 07.11.11

->> Denny,
This is good time to learn that when communicating on a message board sometimes what you write is not exactly what you mean, but can be perceived by others in a completely different way.

You wrote: "Guys dont get me wrong, I never said their images stunk,.." While you probably didn't mean that the staffer's work sucked and didn't say it directly when you wrote: "...even though my images are far superior to what they use...." As you can tell from above, many people, myself included, interpreted what your wrote to mean just that. Which, made me checkout your profile and website to see if you truly was the 'hot stuff' professed.

A tip, before you hit post re-read your message, regardless how short or innocuous it may seem, at least twice. How you say something in writing is every bit, if not more, as important as what you are trying to say. In my message above, I started it after ready Stan Leary's response to your question. In the time it took me to write, rewrite and edit, my own response, there were eight other posts.

Now onward to your other questions...

You later wrote: "I am not sure how it works if you shoot for them, if you can also sell the images."

That depends on what you negotiate during the contract phase of your talks with the publisher or their rep. Some papers require all rights with no secondary sales by you. Others, will agree to one time use and pay a licensing fee each time they publish the image. The rights you retain or they take depends on what you can agree to and should be documented in writing to avoid future misunderstandings. Depending on the rights desired by the paper, you would want to price your licensing fee accordingly.

Denny then wrote: "Do any of you make decent money working for small town newspapers, or would it take a large city to pay more than parents will pay?"

As I said in my earlier post, you missed the boat on that one by four or five years, and given the state of the news publishing industry the budget to pay for freelance content is next to nil. You would be far better off starting and running your own publication, regardless of the scale, than working for $5 a photo and competing against parents and other people willing to give their photos to the paper for free.

Denny wrote: "My thinking was that if the newspaper knew I was going to be there anyways, since shooting for the school, he could send his photog to another event but this does not seem to be the approach they take."

Logical thinking, however, the essential part you were unaware of is that newspapers operate on budgets. Second, in a community with more than one school, papers don't want to show favoritism by regular covering one program as they are afraid it would alienate a potential advertiser. If you were to start your own publication you would quickly gain a firm grasp and appreciation for the decisions the paper has to make.

Hope this helps.

Kevin M. Cox, Photographer, Assistant

Galveston & Houston | TX | US | Posted: 1:40 PM on 07.11.11

->> >> "My thinking was that if the newspaper knew I was going to be there anyways, since shooting for the school, he could send his photog to another event but this does not seem to be the approach they take."

This is a good thought but doesn't always work out in practice. For example at my paper if the sports editor considers a particular game the "big game" or most important of the night they will send me even if we've had a freelancer say they're going to be there anyways.

They want staff photos in the big spot on the page, the centerpiece, to match up with the story that will get the most play and require the most photos.

As others have mentioned your best chance is to cover games they aren't covering and unfortunately for your business plan this would probably require going to different schools where you weren't planning to be at already to sell prints.

Denny Kyser, Photographer

Russell | Pa. | United States of America | Posted: 1:48 PM on 07.11.11

->> Clark you are 110% correct and I should have re read my original post and made it clearer and thanks for the tip.

I was only trying to get across that
A, I am not a WAC with kit lens shooting from the stands.
B, I am not going from event to event that night, I am covering 1 event the entire night.

I am not after the reporter/photographers job by any means, just wanting to shoot.

At our paper the reporter and photographer are one, I just feel that since the photographers and I get along good, they would be ok with me supplying the photos, them doing the reporting.

I agree, they have deadlines, many events etc.
I have been at a game that when they left it was one sided and later it turned around and the team getting blown out ends up winning.

I did not intend to come across as my work is so good how can they not use it, I truly am not that kind of person.

Nic Coury, Photographer

Monterey | CA | | Posted: 2:58 PM on 07.11.11

->> @Chad

" especially smaller ones, don't care about technical superiority in photos anymore. They simply care about ink filling a hole, and it doesn't matter what it looks like."

Wrong dude. Not what my art director thinks either. And I am a full-time staffer at a weekly, not even a small daily...

@ Denny

"I make my living doing Portraits and Weddings, but love sports and want to build this part of my business."

Yeah, don't go into newspaper photography for business... It's not worth it purely for the money. Neither is sports...

Scott Evans, Photographer

Bay Village | OH | USA | Posted: 3:14 PM on 07.11.11

->> Denny, I'll add another point concerning profitability...this time, yours. If you are already being paid to attend and shoot an event and can work it out with the paper, more power to you. On the other hand, if you need to travel to cover games that the paper isn't, it's highly unlikely that you'll cover the cost of gas, meals, parking (depending on the venue) and cost of entry (which the paper may, or may not, pick up for a freelancer). This is true even with some of the better freelance rates that might get paid but are not likely from a smaller sized publication.

I've had situations where I had been doing work as a stringer but consistently got sent on assignments where, when I added up all my expenses at the end, I actually lost money. This was for an outfit that paid far better rates than our metro paper (which is not consider a small local). Its just something to think about since there is far more to it than simply getting your foot in the door, its really about your business as well.

My advice, if you still want to pursue this, is to hook up with one or two of the paper's writers. Buy them a coffee (or better yet, a beer) and make friends with them. If you can get into the flow of the stories they are covering, you can start to gear your images towards that as Clark mentioned earlier. I think you'll have far greater impact on an editor if you can provide photo content to compliment (or tell) the storyline they are covering than by simply submitting solid images. In addition, you will be able to better understand where there might be opportunities to add content (no staff photo coverage) if you are talking to the reporters in the field. I really believe that this is one of your best resources to getting "in". From experience, this is exactly how I got regular gigs covering some professional and NCAA sports in my area. In most cases, it wasn't for a newspaper so I'd also suggest that you don't dismiss other outlets that provide print and web content. Many times, you'll find they pay better and have greater need for content than the papers anyway.

Chris McGathey, Photo Editor

	Dallas \| TX \| USA \| Posted: 3:18 PM on 07.11.11
	->> Here is a crazy idea. Maybe a second degree in journalism or photojournalism?

Chad Ryan, Photographer

Fort Wayne | IN | USA | Posted: 3:54 PM on 07.11.11

->> Nic,

Certainly there are going to be exceptions to my previous proclamation. I did say most, not all. I don't believe I am wrong, but thanks for directly telling me that I am.

It appears by your statement that your employer takes picture quality seriously. That's awesome. I'm glad your publication appreciates good art as I believe they all should. The fact is most don't. I would submit your paper is definitely in the minority there.

But let me ask you this: How many papers, even bigger ones, are now handing point and shoot cameras to reporters and sending them off to shoot their own assignments? For those that do, all they care about is sending the same person out to do two jobs, thereby saving money. They've decided to accept lower quality (in most instances) for the purpose of saving money. That fact is indisputable.

Chuck Liddy, Photographer

	Durham \| NC \| USA \| Posted: 4:21 PM on 07.11.11
	->> Denny, not to be rude but have you the slightest idea of what kind of shape (budget wise) newspapers are in? I'm kind of at a loss why you would think you could just waltz in and think a newspaper, no matter what size it is, has a budget to pay you, especially if they have their own staffers. You seem to be about 10-15 years behind in knowing what is actually going on in the newspaper world.

Denny Kyser, Photographer

Russell | Pa. | United States of America | Posted: 4:37 PM on 07.11.11

->> Chuck, did you see what I was charging, I guess not.

I said for little or nothing to start. I do not see how that could be more expensive than staffing part time photographers like they do.

My point was if I am going to be there anyways, why not use what I shoot.
Possibly if it ended up saving them from having a part time photographer cover events (which they do) they could throw me a bone now and then.

Scott Evans, Photographer

	Bay Village \| OH \| USA \| Posted: 4:43 PM on 07.11.11
	->> working for little or nothing? C'mon Chuck, don't let me down man!!!!!

Michael McNamara, Photographer, Photo Editor

	Phoenix \| AZ \| USA \| Posted: 4:46 PM on 07.11.11
	->> I'm sure the paper's existing part timers love reading this thread. You're saying that you are night and day better than they are, and that you're willing to undercut them too. Awesome!

Denny Kyser, Photographer

Russell | Pa. | United States of America | Posted: 4:47 PM on 07.11.11

->> I think some of you are thinking I want to make a living doing newspaper work, this is not the case.

I make my living shooting portraits and weddings. I have done pretty well with action shots, and if I could shoot a few more could add to the bottom line.

The newspaper does not always have a staffer at an event, or not for a full event and if I could get expenses paid to cover something and possibly pick up some money on the action it would be great.

Again, not trying to retire on it.

I do not expect to waltz in and demand anything, or expect them to get rid of an employee. I just wondered what the process is to let them know I would be interested if they needed someone

The frustration was at times I would send in some images (for free) that would not be used, but it was stated they wanted the staff photo to go with the story which I can understand.

Paul Hayes, Photographer, Photo Editor

Littleton | NH | USA | Posted: 4:52 PM on 07.11.11

->> Denny, as previously stated, you need to develop a relationship with the paper over time.

As a former sports editor for a rural, small market paper, I normally didn't buy photos for staffed games, partly because because my boss would object to paying two people to cover one game (especially if it was a regular season game).

I made exceptions for late round playoff/championship games, which I double-staffed with a dedicated writer and shooter combo. However if there was no scheduling conflicts or deadline issues, that combo would consist of two full-time staffers.

And in my four years as sports editor, from 2005-2009, my budget shrank as the economy worsened. My first year I sought out lots of stringers to cover remote areas. In later years we simply took call ins from those areas.

If your work is really that much better, then I suggest offering your services, developing a relationship with the editor and staff, and play the waiting games in hopes that, over time, they will rely on you more for photos.

Denny Kyser, Photographer

Russell | Pa. | United States of America | Posted: 4:56 PM on 07.11.11

->> Thanks Paul

Again not trying to put someone out of work, but lets say the part timer moves on, would love the chance to shoot some events.

The frustrations were mostly from out of town papers, who were not covering the event in the first place, but when sending them some images (no charge) they suggested I put them on the online gallery in the fan section so they can sell them.

I was hoping that once in a while the visiting team's city would possibly buy photos, seems I was wrong.

I have done ok selling them action shots.

Eric Canha, Photographer

Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 5:05 PM on 07.11.11

->> Denny with all due respect....

You've stressed that you are willing to do this for little OR NOTHING several times now. So it begs us to conclude that more than money you want to see your work printed in the paper. If that's the case just send them the dang files. Is there really that big a difference between a $30 hooker and a lobster dinner slut (Here come the inappropriates, I deserve them)? Don't get your feather ruffled, I'm neither calling you a hooker or a slut.... It's just that from the tenor of the posts I'm lead to believe that the REAL goal is getting in the paper and not really creating a new (and profitable) client / revenue stream.

I've provided free images to the papers around here. 99% of the time it was of a student who'd been killed and the paper wanted something more than a senior portrait. I have a PERSONAL aversion to the idea of charging money for an obit photo. It's 100% me and I don't have any issue with those who will provide images under the same circumstance for a fee. You want to see your work published, just go ahead and do it. Clark's solution (publish your own) will pay greater rewards, but in the end you don't have to justify it to anyone. Everyone here has said that from the business side getting paid will be the hurdle. You have responded that payment is negligible or optional.... Well that solves the biggest problem in getting 'hired'. So just send the files.... If they still don't print them then you'll have to look deeper into what it is that keeps them from using free quality content.

By the way when the starting point is little or nothing.... Well end point won't be any different.

Now I'll go put on my asbestos undies and await the flames....

E

Dan Routh, Photographer

	Greensboro \| NC \| USA \| Posted: 5:15 PM on 07.11.11
	->> "I think some of you are thinking I want to make a living doing newspaper work, this is not the case." Denny, I think what you are missing in not hearing what you want to, is that there are a bunch of folks here who "do" want to make a living doing newspaper work.

Butch Miller, Photographer

Lock Haven | PA | USA | Posted: 5:19 PM on 07.11.11

->> Denny ... welcome to SS ... as you will see ... there are some sensitive issues that will draw immediate attention ... ;-)

"I was hoping that once in a while the visiting team's city would possibly buy photos, seems I was wrong."

It's all about budget ... not just monetary budget concerns ... but but space concerns as well .... medium and small sized papers have to be all things to all people ... when one team is on the road they usually opt to cover another team that is home on the same day to spread the wealth among all the teams that may be in their coverage areas ... in these days of limited budgets, unless an away event is along the lines of a conference, tournament championship or an important winner-take-all playoff event or very important milestone for one of the participants or coaches ... you likely won't get much reception to images contributed after the fact ... those editors probably already have their sections designed and nearly ready for press ...

In such cases, call those out of town papers at least a week in advance of an upcoming event to give them a heads up that you could assist ... that could improve the odds ...

Oh ... and if your image(s) are worthy of being published ... they are also worthy of receiving compensation ... even though newspapers are not doing well as an industry ... they are still a business and it doesn't do those of us who have been earning a living in the industry any benefit to see imagery given freely for others to profit from ... it devalues what we do as a whole ...

Denny Kyser, Photographer

Russell | Pa. | United States of America | Posted: 5:24 PM on 07.11.11

->> Eric,
The last think I want to do is make other sports shooters mad, and I guess by doing it for free I could be. That was not my intension.

My thinking was it's an out of town paper who IMO does not have good sports photography. The reality is that someone in that town does work for that paper and may not appreciate me trying to get some work out of that paper.

I was thinking if I give a few free images, I would in return get some paid jobs in the future. Like said above probably not going to happen, as they will find someone else to give them teaser photos and then someone else etc.

I do give a few images to our local newspaper, usually kids that I have done senior pictures for and are good customers.

I asked this on here because I knew it was a place to get real answers which I did. Not what I wanted to hear but at least I can no waste time sending pictures to these papers.

I will do like some of you suggested and try to establish a relationship if it presents itself, but since they are mostly from an hour away not likely I will run into them.

Seems the best way to make a little extra is to do what I am doing, and just selling some action online. I do plan on going up in price, last year was my first year offering it and was competing with some very cheap competition.

Denny Kyser, Photographer

	Russell \| Pa. \| United States of America \| Posted: 5:41 PM on 07.11.11
	->> Butch, we have talked before and I see there are some sensitive issues. I will be the first to admit I was going about it all wrong, and just took a while for it to sink in. Thanks for all who responded and I am actually glad I asked the question, not what I was hoping to hear, but at least got a reality check.

Andrew Nelles, Photographer

Chicago | IL | usa | Posted: 5:48 PM on 07.11.11

->> Denny, please do not give photos to newspapers for free or next to nothing.

Giving images away for free isn't some secret way in, it just establishes you as the photographer who will work for free. You will a dig a hole you can't escape from.

Also, this does not help an already struggling industry and is an insult to those, my self included, who make a living freelancing for newspapers. By doing a job for free you potentially take an assignment rate away from a working photojournalist and even worse contribute and reinforce the trend of lowering the monetary value of quality photojournalism.

Denny Kyser, Photographer

	Russell \| Pa. \| United States of America \| Posted: 6:06 PM on 07.11.11
	->> Andrew, Lesson learned and a straight up apology for offending anyone by doing so. Luckily I just started trying that route this spring, and the last thing I want to do is hurt this industry.

Gerry Melendez, Photographer

Columbia | SC | USA | Posted: 6:06 PM on 07.11.11

->> Chad,

"all they care about is sending the same person out to do two jobs, thereby saving money. They've decided to accept lower quality (in most instances) for the purpose of saving money. That fact is indisputable."

That's a broad stroke. I would venture to say that the reason most newspapers are sending reporters out with cameras is that with cuts in staff, there aren't enough bodies to cover everything. At my paper this happens on rare occasions and when it does it usually involves a secondary story where the art would be secondary.

Again, speaking from my newspaper's perspective, quality is extremely important to my editors. We have a talented staff that produces quality work on a daily basis. I would generalize and say that most papers, no matter the size, still care about the quality of their images. They're just trying to meet the same standard with half the staff. That's the problem.

On that note, if giving someone a camera to get a gallery of fan shots at a football game will free a staffer to finish a project or produce stronger images, I'm all for that.

At this point you pick your battles.

Brad Barr, Photographer

Port St. Lucie | FL | USA | Posted: 6:16 PM on 07.11.11

->> Perhaps the old shoe on the other foot, might ring home.

Imagine a wanna be wedding photog was in a wedding forum saying they could be taking pix that are so much better than the pros in the area, and why wont the brides choose him, after all they will do the wedding for next to nothing? Right?

Now figure the "brides" in this case are all financially strapped for cash (ie the newspaper reality).

The wedding photogs are gonna hate you for offering your services for nothing while they are trying to feed their families....and the (broke brides) have no money to hire you...

anyway, you get the idea. There are a hundred wannabes behind you in the sports dept wanting to get a credential and shoot the games for little or nothing...just like the wave of newbie wedding photogs.

Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer

Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 6:35 PM on 07.11.11

->> We haven't had any new members post a message wanting to know how they could get MLB, NFL or NBA credentials for a few months, so we've all been kind of board lately :-)

Hopefully, some of us old folk and SS vets didn't get you down with all the attention your post has received so far.

"I will be the first to admit I was going about it all wrong, and just took a while for it to sink in."

Congrats! You just completed your first membership test and you didn't stomp off in a huff. Yippee! Drinks are on me.
Almost everyone here are here to help you learn, grow and prosper. Good luck and welcome aboard.

Butch Miller, Photographer

	Lock Haven \| PA \| USA \| Posted: 6:50 PM on 07.11.11
	->> "Lesson learned and a straight up apology for offending anyone by doing so." 'Nuff said ... ;-)

Denny Kyser, Photographer

	Russell \| Pa. \| United States of America \| Posted: 6:58 PM on 07.11.11
	->> Brad that is exactly what I had to stop and realize and kind of made me feel stupid. I get fighting mad when this happens to me and here I was doing the same thing. I realize there is no easy quick way to get there. Can anyone get me some sideline passes to some NFL games??? JK JK LOL

Chuck Liddy, Photographer

	Durham \| NC \| USA \| Posted: 7:01 PM on 07.11.11
	->> Man I'm glad I was out doing yard work for the past three hours....Denny's response to my post almost made my head explode. Praise God for beer.....carry on my minions.

David A. Cantor, Photographer, Photo Editor

	Toledo \| OH \| USA \| Posted: 7:24 PM on 07.11.11
	->> Can somebody tell me how I can get wedding credentials?

Brian Blanco, Photographer

Tampa / Sarasota | FL | USA | Posted: 7:28 PM on 07.11.11

->> Denny,

Here's how it works in the real world man: If the staff shooters get to know you and they feel you're a friendly, likable guy that they can trust, then they'll throw your name up the food chain and you'll start getting whatever work they can send your way.

Honestly, you don't have to have Damon Winter's portfolio to get work at most daily and weekly papers, you just have to be someone that the staffers and editors wouldn't mind grabbing a beer with.

To that end, just make certain that you have: a little bit of talent, an ounce of humility, genuine respect for the work of those who came before you and enough business sense to know that if you start giving your work away for free, or next-to-nothing, that you're totally shafting the staffers and existing freelancers. Honestly, your posts on this thread were kind of counterproductive to all of these things man... just try, in the future, to be genuinely likable and the rest will fall into place.

-Blanco

Israel Shirk, Photographer, Assistant

	Boise \| ID \| US \| Posted: 7:30 PM on 07.11.11
	->> David- Best strategy I've seen is to know someone who's invited and then ask them to RSVP an extra. If the couple asks questions, tell the couple you're famous - it's exactly the same as for NFL games. You might need to watch this first - http://www.ehow.com/video_4984551_become-photographer.html - but that's really it.

Brian Blanco, Photographer

Tampa / Sarasota | FL | USA | Posted: 8:13 PM on 07.11.11

->> Oh and Denny, if you're really serious about getting work in the newspaper/newswire world, you're going to want to have some sort of web-presence that, when an editor Googles your name, they immediately land on a website that proves to them that you can do this type of work.

When I Google you or click on your website, I immediately come to a website that features "Seniors" (high school senior portraits) and "Weddings".

There's NOTHING wrong with that type of work and I fully acknowledge that some of the most cherished photos that families (mine included) own are wedding photos and children's portraits, but it does nothing to prove to an editor that you can go out and cover a football game or a protest at city hall.

A newspaper, magazine or wire editor looking for a shooter in the Russel, PA area that lands on your website will likely hit the back arrow and keep looking for another shooter. They're unlikely to spend time digging through your galleries or your blog looking for proof that you're capable of shooting whatever assignment they're trying to staff.

You'd be best served by having a separate website dedicated primarily to editorial work that proves to an editor, with one glance at your homepage, that you can shoot their editorial gig, write your cutlines to AP-Style (or a similar style like Reuters, EPA, Getty, etc.) and transmit on-deadline without any muss or fuss.

You've got to look like an editorial shooter to get editorial gigs.

Chad Ryan, Photographer

Fort Wayne | IN | USA | Posted: 8:18 PM on 07.11.11

->> Gerry,

Thanks for the response. Let me clarify a little. I don't mean to suggest photo editors, photographers and even editors in chief don't care about quality images or content. I know they do. But as we all know there is only so much any of the folks in those positions can control. When they are told by publishers or upper-level management folks or whoever makes the decisions that reporters will carry cameras, that photographers will write that all will do video there is little those people can do but do what they are told.

Those of us still doing the job obviously care about quality. Many of our editors and DOP's still care, but the fact is with staff levels being what they are there is only so much that can be done. I admitted in another thread that my work quality has suffered lately. Due to staff cuts and reorganization in the newsroom, I almost always having to be at multiple events across town that all start at the same time in the same night. That includes shooting and in many case writing too. A typical Friday night for me is shooting one football game for the first quarter, then shooting another for a few minutes before halftime. Then I head to a third game for the second half to shoot and write.

I could make a contest-worthy photo at an event that runs big on the front of our Sports section, and I know for a fact that my publisher couldn't care less. He would ask my boss why I didn't have a byline with it. How do I know? He told me.

Maybe I'm generalizing based on my experiences, but I'm hearing similar stories from several people about how little their papers care about photos. I think you and I have similar thoughts about the state of affairs. The difference is you explained yours better than I did. That and I'm bitter.

Lee Giles III, Photographer

	Tacoma/Gig Harbor \| WA \| United States \| Posted: 9:50 PM on 07.11.11
	->> Wow.

Michael Ivanin, Photographer

	Oakville \| On \| Canada \| Posted: 10:06 PM on 07.11.11
	->> Denny, there is another very important reason why newspaper prefer to send staffers to cover events it is copyright. Most newspapers prefer to own full rights to images, however if they send a freelancer they usually loose their rights after first publication of images.

Gerry Melendez, Photographer

Columbia | SC | USA | Posted: 10:12 PM on 07.11.11

->> Chad,

I agree. We both have similar thoughts and struggles. It's a tough business to be in right now and getting tougher each day. It has affected everyone. Like I said, I guess at this point you pick your battles and try to focus on the work at hand. We document life as it happens and that's important. Even at a much weaker capacity these days. Stories and people still matter, especially in smaller communities. Even if the powers that be don't care about that photo, we still should and mainly for the people still picking up that paper.

Jeremy Harmon, Photo Editor, Photographer

Salt Lake City | UT | USA | Posted: 10:33 PM on 07.11.11

->> Denny, I may have a different point of view on this most people. I am the Director of Photography at the Salt Lake Tribune and I am the guy who hires all our freelancers and buys submitted photos from guys like you.

Quite simply, I rarely buy submitted photos. If a photographer has a photo that is something really newsworthy, I'll look at it and make a decision, but actually buying the photo is rare. In four years at the Tribune there are maybe 6 times I've purchased news photos from freelancers from events that weren't specifically assigned to them by me.

I have a hard time imagining a realistic situation where I would buy a photo from a prep game. If we didn't staff the game, we just wouldn't have the photo. It sounds like the paper in your area is pretty small, and having worked at small papers, I get it that we're comparing apples to oranges.

There are a couple of reasons I wouldn't use your photos.

First, if you're shooting for the team, I wouldn't buy your photo. You're shooting it for the team. You have a business relationship with the team and therefore aren't an independent observer. People can think I'm being anal about that, but tough. I'm the guy who decides if I buy your photo.

Second, you may be a great photographer and may attend a lot of games, but I can't control your schedule. If I can't control your schedule, it is impossible for me to plan coverage. As a staffer, I know when you work and I know when you go on vacation. If you want to go to the beach one day, but I want you to go to a game, you can go to beach and there is nothing I can do about it. Therefore, I can't have you as a part of my team.

There is a lot more to it than just this, but these are some of the things that come to mind right off the bat.

Michael Fischer, Photographer

Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 3:32 AM on 07.12.11

->> One last post on this.. Denny, in reading this thread, the same question kept popping up in my head: "Why?" In other words, what were you trying to achieve? Ultimately, what was your goal or objective?

Since we're at the end of the thread - you can't respond but it's not important that we know what your motivation is. It IS important that you know what it is, however.

We know it's not about money - at least it wasn't initially. I'm guessing you've been taught in here that money is important. FREE as a business model doesn't work.

Several times you wrote about the superior quality you could provide. It came across to me, correctly or incorrectly, that in some way you needed to have others validate your skills. I don't know if that was the case, but if it strikes a nerve, you need to think about what drives that feeling inside you.

Keep in mind that the staff photographer's best image - if it doesn't fit the angle of the story - doesn't run. As a freelancer, I shoot primarily for one or two papers owned by the same group. I am their primary shooter. The publisher (who was originally an editor) taught me a long time ago, when we were evaluating work for Iowa Newspaper Association Better Newspapers contest " the judges don't give a darn about technical quality; what they care about is does it tell the story?" I have produced some pretty sophisticated images and to date NONE of them have won ANYTHING. It is as the publisher said : Does it tell the story? The ones that I've won with (and I've had a fair amount of success) tell the story.

So, the "test" of what's good is different. If your entering PPofA contests to earn merits, then technical quality is very important; to a photo editor, technique is important, but images that tell the story are more important. As professionals, our challenge is to do both - and there are many, many people on here that do both and do it well.

So think about what drives you. Understand it. Understand what drives editors. Build long term relationships. Stay away from bad deals.

Not easy, but it is do-able. Best of all, you have joined a group of some of the best minds in the industry ( yours truly excluded).

Ask questions. Be prepared for some point blank answers. If you listen to them, you'll find this is the best $25 you'll ever spend.

Good luck!

M

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