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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
I'm Calling Shenanigans
David A. Cantor, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Jason Myers, Photographer
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West Palm Beach | FL | USA | Posted: 9:36 PM on 07.06.11 |
->> This is the way he shoots and does get in and out quite quickly. Steven is a great asset to this forum and while I've never met or corresponded with him directly, I've appreciated his information and shared knowledge.
I'm just a little bit surprised of the need to call another SS member out publicly without a little fact checking. |
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Michael Proebsting, Photographer
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Barrington | IL | USA | Posted: 9:36 PM on 07.06.11 |
| ->> Thank God, finally a professional journalist is on this site. |
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David Dermer, Photographer
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Cortland | Oh | 44410 | Posted: 9:40 PM on 07.06.11 |
| ->> Whats the difference between walking around the streets for 2 hours and shooting a sport for 2 hours and finding 10 shots that work? |
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Nick Adams, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Galesburg | IL | | Posted: 9:43 PM on 07.06.11 |
->> Jason/David...
It's not that he spent 2 hours to photograph some buildings..
Its the history listed on this fact checking site: http://fishfraud.blogspot.com/ |
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David Dermer, Photographer
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Cortland | Oh | 44410 | Posted: 9:50 PM on 07.06.11 |
->> Well F me right?
I dont research every guy on here, I just look at the 10 photos they post.
Im just going to go back to reading the message board. |
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Jason Myers, Photographer
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West Palm Beach | FL | USA | Posted: 10:03 PM on 07.06.11 |
| ->> That's the first I've heard of any of that and didn't see it in your original post. |
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Luke Johnson, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Wally Nell, Photographer
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CAIRO | EG | EGYPT | Posted: 11:17 PM on 07.06.11 |
->> The mudslinging seems to be starting again. Why start a thread just to sling mud? You have no idea whether it is accurate or not, whether he really took the pictures, whether he did it in that timeframe, whatever....
Why would it seem impossible to do this in the time mentioned?
I would rather give Fish credit for having seen and shot some nice pictures in the 2 1/2 hours.
If you don't know what is true, don't automatically presume the worst... |
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Andrew Link, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Winona | MN | USA | Posted: 11:57 PM on 07.06.11 |
->> I think people are confused by the first post...
David C. isn't questioning the photos in the profile.
From what I am putting together, he posted it because he surprised? disappointed? that Steven is a member again (he disappeared for awhile).
Am I right? |
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Thomas Campbell, Photographer
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Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 12:35 AM on 07.07.11 |
| ->> Shooting pictures like that may only take 145 minutes, but learning to add a vignette like that could take a lifetime. |
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Israel Shirk, Photographer, Assistant
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Boise | ID | US | Posted: 12:41 AM on 07.07.11 |
->> The one time I did business with Steven, he was great to work with.
FYI, according to the counter, his page was last updated... 551 days ago. I know the counters aren't always accurate, but it seems odd to call "shenanigans" on (1) Something that was shot for fun, and (2) Something that's a year and a half old.
Like Jason said, Steven was a great asset to this community before people started taking cheap shots at him.
Is he perfect? Obviously not. Neither are you and I. |
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Nick Adams, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Galesburg | IL | | Posted: 12:54 AM on 07.07.11 |
| ->> It's not about the images. It's about the person. |
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Israel Shirk, Photographer, Assistant
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Boise | ID | US | Posted: 1:00 AM on 07.07.11 |
| ->> Would you guys mind leaving my e-mail alone? If you've got a personal experience of business going badly with Steven, share it here. Everyone seems to be a lot more pissed off at him than they have right. Thanks. |
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Jason Myers, Photographer
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West Palm Beach | FL | USA | Posted: 1:06 AM on 07.07.11 |
->> There must be some confused folks out there. Just looked and I got 6 "huh's" on my original response. That's more than the original post which didn't state the actual reason for the post was to infer Steven was a fraud which I think is an unfortunate way to spend time on this forum.
According to the site's definition, it infers I wasn't clear or wrote my response in a confusing way. I thought it was pretty straightforward.
"Huh?
This should be used when someone's point was not made because it was written in a confusing way. By marking a post with this, you are essentially asking the poster to try explaining their position again - this time more clearly."
How about this. I think the information provided by Steven has always been helpful and informative and he is a photographer known for quick trips on his photographic journey. I think it's unfortunate that he be disparaged on a forum seemingly for the enjoyment of it. How is that? Hope it helps.
Huh? |
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Jason Myers, Photographer
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West Palm Beach | FL | USA | Posted: 1:07 AM on 07.07.11 |
| ->> p.s. I agree with Israel. Please stop sending me emails. |
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Jack Kurtz, Photographer
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Phoenix | AZ | United States | Posted: 4:51 AM on 07.07.11 |
| ->> I'm a little confused. The photos seem to be from 2009 and his last update was some 550 days ago. I'm not sticking up for fish, just wondering why this is a topic now? |
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Luke Johnson, Photographer, Student/Intern
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St.Petersburg | FL | USA | Posted: 9:54 AM on 07.07.11 |
->> Jack,
It's not about the photos. |
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
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Dallas | TX | US | Posted: 10:31 AM on 07.07.11 |
->> Here I was all bummed out that the Casey Anthony circus had run it's course. But hey, there's a new one in town, just in time!!
Gonna go get the popcorn ready ... |
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Jim Colburn, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Omaha | NE | USA | Posted: 11:31 AM on 07.07.11 |
->> "This is the way he shoots and does get in and out quite quickly"
Hmmm.... |
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Jason Myers, Photographer
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West Palm Beach | FL | USA | Posted: 12:45 PM on 07.07.11 |
->> JIm,
I was referring to the way he describes his philosophy of short duration visits to shooting locations. Everything I understand about his "style" is that he flies in, shoots, then is out very quickly and on to another location. If I'm incorrect I apologize. Sorry to confuse anyone. |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 1:11 PM on 07.07.11 |
->> This is one thread that makes me embarrassed to be a member of SportsShooter.com . I understand that some people are very concerned regarding one member's behavior but this new thread serves no purpose imho. Fish's issues have been documented over and over on here. It's David's right to post what he wants, but this is like tearing a scab off over and over.
Wally and Gerry are both correct in my opinion. I have a hard time finding the upside on this one.
M |
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Garrett Hubbard, Photographer
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Washington | D.C. | USA | Posted: 4:08 PM on 07.07.11 |
| ->> Well said Michael. |
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Butch Miller, Photographer
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Lock Haven | PA | USA | Posted: 4:47 PM on 07.07.11 |
| ->> Indeed ... I think this is much ado about nothing ... Fish hasn't made a posting on the board since March ... The purpose or benefit of this thread to the SS community escapes me ... |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 7:40 PM on 07.07.11 |
->> David C.,
When I was looking at this on mobile, I thought that I couldn't see what you were talking about because of the screen size. I still can't figure out your objection.
--Mark |
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Mike Brice, Photographer
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SLC | UT | USA | Posted: 9:16 PM on 07.07.11 |
| ->> I am going to go buy a lottery ticket or life insurance, because I agree with Cantor. |
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John Korduner, Photographer
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Baton Rouge | LA | United States | Posted: 9:35 PM on 07.07.11 |
| ->> As long as the man shoots in RAW and rocks a MacBook Pro, he's O.K. in my book! |
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Jim Colburn, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Omaha | NE | USA | Posted: 10:13 PM on 07.07.11 |
->> "I was referring to the way he describes his philosophy of short duration"
Yeh, just like that. |
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Richard Wolowicz, Photographer
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Montreal | QC | Canada | Posted: 10:19 PM on 07.07.11 |
| ->> Doing my part to get this to 50 ... and go away for good |
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Jason Myers, Photographer
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West Palm Beach | FL | USA | Posted: 10:23 PM on 07.07.11 |
| ->> I see you understand now Jim... Glad I could help |
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Doug Holleman, Photographer
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Temple | TX | USA | Posted: 1:10 AM on 07.08.11 |
->> I've heard about some of the gripes about Fish. I've only met him once at a SS workshop, spent a little time with him, and he seemed like an OK enough, though slightly goofy, guy. But that's beside the point.
Whatever he's done to get so many people to hate his guts, it's probably not any worse than some anonymous guy publishing a website solely dedicated to smearing another guy. Seems pretty low, if you ask me. If you have to bash somebody, at least do it out in the open and be a man. If he's the buffoon he is made out to be he certainly wouldn't be much of a threat to retaliate. Grow some nads. |
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Joshua Lindsey, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Bowling Green | KY | United States | Posted: 4:32 AM on 07.08.11 |
| ->> So what is the big deal about this Steven Frischling guy anyway? |
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Neil Turner, Photographer
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Bournemouth | UK | United Kingdom | Posted: 9:12 AM on 07.08.11 |
->> Over the years I have met Steve Frischling several times and done business with him once. He tells some tall stories (in the UK we'd call them fishing stories funnily enough) but he has helped me out and I like the guy.
If he has been charged with a crime as one of the hate sites claims, and he is found guilty, that would be very sad. From my dealings with him he is a photographer with a larger than life personality whose company in a bar I really enjoy. His advice on traveling with gear has proved to be right on the money and I will always appreciate the direct help he gave me when I asked him for it.
Fish clearly has some enemies inside and outside of this profession and whatever the issues are, I hope that they get sorted without anyone getting hurt. |
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Jeff Lewis, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 10:07 AM on 07.08.11 |
->> Why is this relevant?
He posted those pics around Feb. 28, 2010 according to the time stamp on his page and has not updated them in 552 days. I'm not against anybody bashing him if thats your thing to do, but bash him for something he did this week!!!
We are mostly photojournalists on this site and never report on ancient news from a year and a half ago.
Jeff |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 10:43 AM on 07.08.11 |
| ->> David C? |
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Jim Colburn, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Omaha | NE | USA | Posted: 5:02 PM on 07.08.11 |
| ->> Why would anyone pay him to spend 145 minutes shooting "architecture" in three parts of Paris? If he wasn't being paid why spend only a little over 2.5 hours in Paris? Sounds kind of lame from the get go. |
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Israel Shirk, Photographer, Assistant
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Boise | ID | US | Posted: 5:20 PM on 07.08.11 |
->> Jim's right. If I was in Paris flying through, I'd definitely stay in the airport over going and seeing a couple sights.
Are we at 50 yet? |
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Arthur Spragg, Photographer
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San Angelo | TX | USA | Posted: 5:49 PM on 07.08.11 |
| ->> I wish I could get the last 10 minutes of my life back after wasting it reading this thread... |
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Jim Colburn, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Omaha | NE | USA | Posted: 10:09 PM on 07.08.11 |
->> "If I was in Paris flying through, I'd definitely stay in the airport"
It didn't sound as though Fish was "flying through", did it?
Would you really spend the two hours (round trip) that it'd take to get back and forth to "downtown" Paris on the RER, with the chance of missing your connection, to shoot some BS "architecture" pix
It sounds like he could have had the time but decided to do "a quickie". |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 8:31 AM on 07.09.11 |
| ->> Hey, David's old like me. Maybe he didn't notice the post was almost two years old. Of course, I'VE never shot off my mouth on this site without knowing what I was talking about....oh....wait....nevermind. |
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Jason Joseph, Photographer
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Dublin | OH | USA | Posted: 8:55 AM on 07.09.11 |
| ->> Wow, and I thought this was a Sport Photography message board. I wasn't aware that it transitioned to be Jr. High instead. My bad. |
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Jim Colburn, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Omaha | NE | USA | Posted: 12:32 PM on 07.09.11 |
->> "David's old like me"
Nobody is really old like you are Chuck. You bring a certain savoir faire to the entire concept of oldness. You make being old almost cool. |
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Mark Sutton, Photographer
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Herndon | VA | USA | Posted: 1:06 PM on 07.09.11 |
->> I started to LOL this thread eight separate times, so it could reach it's fitty mark...
I'm trying to use words like fitty now, so my kids can stop calling me old like the Chuckster... |
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Michael Granse, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 1:32 PM on 07.09.11 |
->> STOP THE PRESSES!!!!!
Sorry . . . I have always wanted to say that! |
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
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Dallas | TX | US | Posted: 1:38 PM on 07.09.11 |
->> Hey now -- gonna stick up for Cantor here. He's a long-time friend and mentor and a hell of a decent dude. While I won't go so far as to say that I would have started a thread like this, I will say I understand where David's coming from.
First off, I've gone down the list of people who've previously responded and what strikes me is that several of those who seem perturbed by this whole thing lack context.
Steven has a pretty long history in the photojournalism community, starting way back when with the NPPA Listserv. It was before my time, but I've heard stories from people like David, and let me tell you -- to say that Steven made a few enemies via the listserv would be kind.
But, I chalked it up to the guy being eccentric, maybe a little nutty (not in a bad way). If he chose to get into it with folks on there, whatever. It's his rep. He was always decent to me on here, so I didn't think much of it.
Flash forward to when I was shown the link Nick posted. A friend emailed it to me. Blew me away. At first I thought it was a joke, but over a couple of days when I found time, I went over the whole site.
What made me especially angry were the allegations that Steven ripped off wedding clients; and they had some pretty damning proof.
I shoot wedding on the side; have for years. I enjoy it, and I especially enjoy getting to know my clients. A lot of them are my friends now. To hurt someone who's letting you into a very real, intimate moment in their lives is just cruel. And of course, it's bad business ... for all of us.
I can't tell you how many clients have told me stories of their friends having horrible experiences with wedding photographers and other similar vendors. Pisses me off just like when I hear a subject talk about a bad experience with a newspaper photographer, journalist, etc. It's just wrong, and again, it hurts the entire community.
But hey -- his business, his rep. And really, when you come down to this, it is just business. SportsShooter.com is a business. Yes, it's a fun, informative community, but it's business.
If the folks who run this place want to let Steven be a member here, so be it. Maybe he's changed. I may be a quasi Agnostic, but my Catholic upbringing did instill in me a desire to give people chances. Maybe it's a different Steven.
Or maybe it's not, but him being on here is out of my hands, and I honestly don't care. I run my business (as a newspaper and wedding photojournalist) in a manner that I think is decent and kind to the client. Most people I know do.
Fair enough.
- g - |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 3:46 PM on 07.09.11 |
->> My experiences with Steven go back before NPPA-L (which i helped start) to the AOL photo forum. I'm aware of the various current allegations floating around but I still don't understand David Cantor's first post in this thread.
David,
Why have you gone uncharacteristically silent? What were your implications in the initial message? I'm not being obtuse here, I really don't understand.
--Mark |
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
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Dallas | TX | US | Posted: 5:10 PM on 07.09.11 |
->> Mark:
I wasn't referring to you, but I appreciate the perspective. And I say let's all lay off David.
Life's too short. |
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Grover Sanschagrin, Photographer, Photo Editor
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San Francisco | CA | USA | Posted: 8:17 PM on 07.09.11 |
->> As a founder, owner, and admin of this website, I have a responsibility to be fair - to treat everyone equally. If the admin staff declared themselves to be judge and jury on issues and allegations extending beyond the website, we'd have no members left.
Steven hasn't broken any of our website's rules, and we see no reason why he should be prevented from renewing his membership, or "kicked off the site", as several have requested.
I've also heard things like "he is tarnishing the SportsShooter name", and "people are leaving the site because of him", suggesting that I/we do something about it by deleting his account. I think otherwise - by doing so, it would cater to mob-like mentality that would tarnish the site's name far worse. It would say something about the community and point to a lack of fairness in it's administrators.
This website is 9 year-old now. I like to think that we've lasted this long because we've been fair and reasonable the entire time. |
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Curtis Clegg, Photographer
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Sycamore | IL | USA | Posted: 7:12 AM on 07.10.11 |
| ->> Is it too late to call tomfoolery? |
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Gene Boyars, Photographer
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Matawan | NJ | United States | Posted: 11:10 AM on 07.10.11 |
| ->> yep Curtis, it is. |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 1:40 PM on 07.10.11 |
->> I consider David a friend and my original post wasn't meant to call him out. David and I swapped emails after that and I think we both understand each others' position. I hope so, because I love David, and what he brings to the SS.com community. I can't say the same thing for Steven.
Having said that,Gerry is right, it's Steven's reputation and he can either live by it or die by it business wise. This isn't the first time Steven's "exploits" have been the source of discussion on here.
Where some of you and I may not agree is the best way to handle Steven. It's my personal opinion that Steven is one of those people who don't care what you say about him as long as he's the topic of discussion. If my assumption is correct, when we talk about Steven we do nothing more than make him happy. Think Donald Trump.
While I understand the desire to run him out of the photojournalism town, do you really think that's worth the time or effort on here? It's been my experience that people who aren't honest with their dealings move on to different areas and create the same messes somewhere else. The soil their liter boxes and move on. Only downside is that too often they end up in Congress. :P
I was surprised that Grover responded - but glad he did. It isn't fair to ask SS.com management to remove someone when he's followed the rules on this website. You place Grover, Bert and the entire leadership in a position where they start playing judge and jury. For the record, there's been times they have had to ask someone to leave and I haven't been in agreement- Walter Callahan being the individual I refer to. However, here's the reality: It's their website and their rules. Play by them or leave - either by choice or otherwise. If Steven hasn't broken any of their rules, then asking them to push this guy over the ledge sets a precedent I'm not going to be really comfortable with.
I have no problem with the community calling Steven out if and when he lies or misrepresents himself. But the reality is this: When you try to squeeze him when he does play by the rules, you merely encourage him to not play by the rules that much more.
Hopefully this is the last word on Steven for a while... literally.
M |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 5:06 PM on 07.10.11 |
->> CORRECTION:
In the above post, I wrote that SS.com had Walter leave. Brad informs me that was not the case.
I typed that, because at the time, Walter wrote me and indicated he was removed. It just goes to illustrate that you should always get both sides of the story.
To everyone that runs SportsShooter.com, I apologize.
Michael |
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