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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Selling 4x6 Prints on the Web
Kevin Krows, Photographer
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Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 9:13 PM on 07.02.11 |
->> I am resurrecting a very old post from January of 2004 and would like to see if thoughts have changed relative to selling 4x6 print sizes.
http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=6883
Here are my thoughts:
1. The 4x6 print size is a commodity that focuses buyers attention on one common denominator --- Lowest Price.
2. It's very difficult to establish the value of the content of a 4x6 when buyers are paying $0.13 cents per print at Walmart or Walgreens.
3. Very few buyers make scrap books from photo albums that use 4x6 inserts. Scrap books have evolved since 2004 and are much more complex. Most are 12x12 pages and don't use photo inserts.
4. 4x6 prints are a boat anchor to profitable pricing of larger print sizes as they are used as a basis of comparison. For example, when evaluating what to charge for a 5x7, most often it's a buck or two more than the 4x6. The 8x10, is then priced based on the price of a 5x7... maybe $5. Point ... everything begins with the entry price point of the 4x6.
5. The 2:3 ratio of the 4x6 sometimes makes it difficult to create a close crop on most sports images. As I look through my mountain of back issues of SI, most isolation shots of athletes look like they are closer a 4:5 ratio. Isolation shots are not as dynamic to my eye when they have too much crud left and right or top and bottom.
So why do I (we) continue to sell them? Why not begin with 5x7's and develop a price model based on lower volume, higher margins, and content value rather than paper size?
Let the fun begin! |
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Delane B. Rouse, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | US | Posted: 10:49 PM on 07.02.11 |
->> A few Yeats after I responded to that thread we added 4x6's to our product listing...at the same price as our 5x7's. So we effectively raised prices. I'm not sure about the raw numbers but I think we do sell slightly more 4x6's than 5x7's.
We also offer a few packages of 4, 5 and 10 prints...these packages are very popular (I.e. good value for the customer) and good profit for our business.
Offering the 4R was good for us because it made our clients happy and it was good for us because we could keep our profit margin where we liked it.
Win-win. |
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Eric Canha, Photographer
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Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 11:16 PM on 07.02.11 |
->> 4x6 is VERY popular size. I am actually looking at adding a 'premium' 4x6's printed on a matte or cotton paper. I just had a grandmother not too long ago, spend $135 on 4x6's. Once the order got to her, and her daughter saw the photos, she RE-ORDERED most of the same photos ($103 worth) for the daughter's scrapbook. Her daughter saw the scrapbook that she was making of her granddaughter and had to have one of her own.
Scrapbooks are VERY popular and most often these folks don't want or can't use 5x7's. These customers don't see it as a 4x6 but as a page component and as such they are willing to pay a little more if it adds to the page. These are also people who go to paper stores to buy hand made and premium papers..... Always give your customers what they want, and are willing to pay for. |
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Mike Janes, Photographer
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Attica | NY | USA | Posted: 5:43 AM on 07.03.11 |
->> Few years ago I removed 4x6's, and that's when the emails started rolling in...they wanted that size and wondered why they were not available. So added them back to the product list and priced what I thought was fair after researching pricing and where they should be. So just to address the points you brought up...
1. No matter what print size you start at there will always be customers who go directly for the lowest price, doesn't matter if it's 4x6 or 5x7, what will impact the wallet the least is going to win, just how it is with some of them for a lot of possible reasons.
2. I've actually never heard this comparison from any customers, though have read emails from others who have had it sent to them. I have 4x6's in my T&I and have them online, nobody has ever said anything referring to the fact they can get their images printed for cheaper - think they know the difference, or at least I'd like to believe they do. The only time I've ever heard anything similar was when another photographer was pricing them at a dollar or two, a parent brought that up and asked me for a special deal. I politely declined and she never ordered, oh well. It's not my fault the other guy doesn't know how to price his stuff, I have customers willing to pay and researched my pricing, so it remains.
3. I don't know much about scrap booking, however do hear about it occasionally from parents and they all refer to the 4x6's. I'm sure there are other methods and sizes, but traditionally seems to be 4x6 is the main size, so you really have to give the customer what they want.
4. Agree, that's how I did it - and when making the 5x7 and 4x6 similar in price (and seriously considering doing what Eric does making them the same) I saw a rise in 5x7 sales, think they sell the most now. They don't seem to mind the extra little bit for the larger size now as to before it was all about price, cheapest option because there was a larger gap between the two.
5. Remember some that looked odd, but would not say it's a majority or even close to it. SI vs parent prints are different markets completely, there's images I would usually delete that sell of kids - actually one today, the kids head is down a bit, not the best action, can't see his eyes...that was an 11x14...then the other peak action stuff in the order was all 5x7. Parents don't always have the same tastes we do, so have to be a bit more lax I guess and not expect only the SI quality stuff to sell.
As to why continue to sell them, easy - they're in demand. If you price them right then there's no problem or issues - if you go and put them up for $2 and then your 5x7 for $10 with such a large gap then I can see issues developing. I could also see issues rising if the quality isn't very good, they see images they think they can capture and print themselves for .13 cents in that case. So all in all if the quality is there and you price accordingly with the rest of your prints that should cut down on problems, if someone still has issues then tough, not everyone is a customer. |
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Tim Cowie, Photographer
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Davidson | NC | USA | Posted: 8:34 AM on 07.03.11 |
->> I think I would agree with your argument that it may take away from some of your larger print sales. However, I doubt you have the same margin on 5x7, 8x10, or larger prints.
How many prints can you sell at a 3000% increase over costs? Margin is margin and that accounts for a lot in business. It's not the end all, but it matters, especially when the customer demands a product.
You have to decide if you are going to drive the market or let the customer decide. In the end, I think it's better to adapt to customer demands versus you trying to steer the market. |
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Doug Pizac, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 9:05 AM on 07.03.11 |
->> I used to offer 4x6s then stopped and now offer them again if they ask. My print sizes start at 5x7. If a client asks for 4x6 I say yes but they're priced at 10% less than a 5x7.
When the client asks why the 4x6 print isn't half the price of a 5x7 since it is half the size, I simply state that the amount of time and effort to order a 4x6 is the basically same as a 5x7, the value the image itself is the same, the cost of invoicing is the same, and the cost of delivery is the same because they both use the same mailing envelope -- so there is no price break for me to discount any more than 10% or I would lose money.
If they still don't get it, I use a plumber as an example. The service call is the same whereupon the final cost is determined by the number of parts used which constitutes a minor fraction of the bill overall. The plumber is going to charge the same whether he/she tightens one loose fitting on a P-trap or both because the time is the same. Using that type logic -- even if it like comparing apples to oranges -- is easily comprehended by the client.
Clients are also woo'd by for every 10 prints they order they get an 11th (a duplicate of one already ordered) for free -- a 10% discount. This way when they order 8 or 9 prints they see a dangling carrot in front of them. To get the freebie they have to increase their order which more than pays for the 11th print. The key is that the freebie must be one that is already part of the order and is the same size as the smallest. That way you're not spending any time or effort color correcting or sizing a separate image. All you're doing is click adding a number to your lab's order. And by having the freebie the smallest size of the order you avoid having them order nine 4x6s and one 11x14 and getting an 11x14 for free. It pushes them to up the size (and pricing) of their size orders.
I often tell them they can send the free one to a relative they might not necessarily share with thereby making that person feel special. Vanity is a great sales tool. |
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Paul Cacciapaglia, Photographer, Assistant
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Houston (Friendswood) | TX | USA | Posted: 6:41 PM on 07.03.11 |
| ->> The number one selling size for me is the 4x6, probably 90% of my sales. Most mom's purchase them every week during say football season year after year and will have a chronological photo album covering all four years of their kids high school "sports career". Most will only buy 4x6's while others will buy 4x6's and buy one or two larger size, 8x10 or 11x14 of their favorite photo. For my really good customers I will throw in an 8x10 with logo with their large $100+ 4x6 weekly order. If the customer wants 4x6, I will continue offer it. |
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Jason Jump, Photographer
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Humble | TX | USA | Posted: 10:42 PM on 07.05.11 |
->> If we didn't sell 4x6s we would probably be out of business.
Okay well that might be a little over dramatic :-).
But our's is probably even higher than 90% I would guess, and most of the time it is scrapbookers.
I just haven't found many folks that are buying prints to hang on the walls of the house or the office. |
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Delane B. Rouse, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | US | Posted: 11:48 PM on 07.05.11 |
->> Oh yeah...I forgot one thing; our shopping cart allows us to set a minimum order amount. We have ours set at $15...since our 4x6's are priced at $9.97 it requires customers to order at least 2 items to check out. Here is a breakdown of recent orders (includes sales tax and shipping):
$51.81
$72.95
$28.59
$35.93
$100.57
$31.70
$27.50
$40.18
$81.59
$21.14
$28.56
$26.44
$80.50
$81.59
$27.50
$53.27
$84.77
$58.27
$58.27
$74.59
$42.27
$84.55
$26.44
$89.79
$53.27
$63.92
$37.07
$26.44
$52.94
$33.89
$35.93
$26.94
$53.27
$28.71
$28.59
$50.82
$81.59
$42.27
$31.19
$81.59
$130.21
$77.28
$62.51
$53.15
$232.04
$95.90
$58.27
$20.14
$30.20
$37.00
$51.84
$98.55
$124.43
$87.92
$37.00
$48.23
$21.14
$81.59
$26.44
$85.83
$40.25
$63.41
$58.27
$97.46
$81.59
$40.18
$40.25
$27.50
$28.56
Our minimum order is $19.94 (2 low res digital files at $9.97 each, no shipping, out of state/no sales tax).
I also checked the first 10 orders and only 1 order contains 4x6 prints and even that one is for a "5-Pack" (5-4x6's, a free 5x7 and a free set of duplicate 4x6's) that we price at $49.97. |
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Alan Herzberg, Photographer
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Elm Grove | WI | USA | Posted: 2:41 PM on 07.06.11 |
->> Interesting topic, Kevin.
For whatever it's worth:
My 4x6 prints (for high school and youth events) sell for $5; my 5x7 prints sell for $7. I sell approximately seven 4x6 prints for every one 5x7 print, so clearly the 4x6 is much more popular for whatever reason.
I sell an 800x1200 pixel digital download for $6. I sell about 3 of those for every two 5x7 prints I sell. |
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Alan Herzberg, Photographer
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Elm Grove | WI | USA | Posted: 2:44 PM on 07.06.11 |
| ->> One more thing concerning print sizes and scrapbooks. I have received several requests last fall to add 3.5 x 5 prints because, for scrapbooks, some customers liked that smaller size. I sell the 3.5 x 5 for the same price as a 4x6. |
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