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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
You're Stealing My Thunder...
Joe Brown, Photographer
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Woburn | MA | USA | Posted: 1:31 AM on 06.27.11 |
->> One of my sports editors at a weekly paper I work for, and I work for a few of them, said that to me recently. He was referring to me, posting photos I took at his assignment, on my own Facebook account, and then Tweeting about them to get some exposure on them. It can be a full week on some of these sports photos when we are in the single elimination part of the season. So there are times we have no choice but to shoot a Wednesday afternoon game to be published the following Wednesday.
He knows I am freelance, and that I count on the extra websales to make my bottom line, so I am just using the momentum of the game to garner a few sales. If I wait, even a few days, that gets lost.
So, I was wondering if anyone else is in this predicament, or have you re-written freelance agreements to cover such situations?
I'd love to hear what you think!
Thanks!
joe brown |
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Israel Shirk, Photographer, Assistant
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Boise | ID | US | Posted: 2:37 AM on 06.27.11 |
->> If someone purchases exclusive rights, then they have whatever say they want for that time period. Otherwise, they can deal with it. In this instance, it's not possible for you to "steal their thunder"... They lose it because they're reporting on a game a week late. Even a couple days later everybody and their alzheimers-laden grandparents know the score; you're just giving them warm fuzzies with a rewrite of what they've already heard.
Side note-
The SEO on SS will pop your posts right to the top of Google. Don't let it be the wrong post. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 8:36 AM on 06.27.11 |
| ->> What Israel said. If you signed a contract with these publications and the photos from that assignment belong to them either forever or until after publication I think you're probably treading on thin ice. Everyone is using social media to pimp websites/newspapers/individual photos. so I would think he's concerned that you are showing your photos before publication, which could be considered a conflict of interest or even as competition with the publication who hired you. |
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Craig Mitchelldyer, Photographer, Assistant
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Portland | OR | USA | Posted: 9:13 AM on 06.27.11 |
->> is the paper really naive enough to think that publishing something a week later is going to be a surprise to anyone? the paper should be posting that stuff to their own twitter/facebook, etc to drive traffic/readers to their website/publication. With backwards thinking like this, its no wonder newspaper struggle.
Seriously, you may publish once a week, but news happens now.
As others have said, its generally good practice to not publish anything yourself until the client has published it, but they should publish it sooner. Check your agreement (if you have one) and if you don't have one, make one. |
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Butch Miller, Photographer
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Lock Haven | PA | USA | Posted: 9:49 AM on 06.27.11 |
| ->> I agree, unless you have a written agreement to personally embargo the images prior to this client's publication ... you are not doing anything wrong ... though if you want to ... you could always not post on Twitter or Facebook the exact images you submit for use in the weekly paper ... that way you are staying current and feeding the need for instant feedback, while offering at least some minor exclusivity for your client ... |
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 10:31 AM on 06.27.11 |
->> Joe,
You are using lightning fast posting to steal his paper's roar to his readers and subscribers. Assuming it is not a free weekly, you are 'scooping' him may be affecting his bottom line since parents will generally buy extra papers if their kid is even out of focus in the background. In the long run, this will affect you because the loss in even that tiny bit of revenue will affect his budget, which will affect the number of images he may wish to license from you. Worse still, the editor may decide to use another vendor willing to embargo his take until after he has published.
Questions for you. How is the paper making their selections? Are you sending them files or creating a web gallery for them to download from? When do they make their selections?
In any case, the solution, which was one I use when we were supplying area weekly papers with content, is pretty simple. You really should consider only posting images to your site/facebook that you did not make available to your publishing clients always with a message saying more images will be coming soon (or on a specific date). Then after the paper has come out, then add those images to your site(s). The best part about this strategy is that you create a reason for people to return to your site after the initial posting thus improving the opportunity for more sales and you will maintain a symbiotic relationship with your client(s). |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 12:35 PM on 06.27.11 |
->> What Clark said. The comment "you're stealing my thunder" is a shot across your bow. Clark is exactly right, this is about money. You can win the battle but I virtually guarantee you'll lose the war- he will quit using you.
So how do you make this a win-win? Talk to him. Find out exactly what the issues are. Tell him you value the relationship both professionally and personally if that's the case and you want to make sure that a win-win is the outcome. Use those words. Then make sure you do that.
Ask questions to determine what the specific issues are. This shows you're truly interested in finding out his side. It also means you control the discussion.
If you can't make it a win - win, then thank him for the relationship and move on. Don't burn the bridge. Keep in touch. Be classy if it doesn't work because the day may come when another opportunity will work. |
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Marty Price, Photographer
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Concord | NC | USA | Posted: 12:56 PM on 06.27.11 |
| ->> I agree with Michael, his comment is a shot across your bow. If you want to keep this relationship you should take heed. I freelance with several publications and I extend a three day embargo on all assignments because it has been a generally expected practice for the past 25 years, even before I had written contracts. Since they paid for me to shoot the assignment and they were the publication that gained me the access to shoot the assignment, they should be allowed to be first to publish work form said assignment. Be it on the internet or print they paid for the right to be first....IMHO |
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Marty Price, Photographer
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Concord | NC | USA | Posted: 1:00 PM on 06.27.11 |
| ->> typo...should be work from said assignment. |
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Nick Morris, Photographer
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San Diego | CA | USA | Posted: 1:03 PM on 06.27.11 |
| ->> I just recently had that phone call from my editor about posting "out-takes" on Facebook. I was asked to refrain from it until after the photos posted in the paper. Of course I agreed and will be more than happy to give them a 48 hr head start. I was only asked to wait 24 but I like my client and they have been fairly good to me over the past 8 years. Although we do still have a disagreement about me selling different files to the competitor who I also shoot for. He needs to understand I am a freelance photojournalist and that is how I make my pay. I do not sell files if the assignment originated from his office but if it's something I shot on spec or spot news...please do not tell me I can't sell to the competitor. They don't mind so why should he? |
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Joe Brown, Photographer
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Woburn | MA | USA | Posted: 5:46 PM on 06.27.11 |
->> Thanks to all for the responses, I actually did come to an agreement with him, and I will be embargoing photos until they appear in the paper.
I certainly agree that he should be posting the pictures to a website, or the papers fb/tw account, but they do not make the choices of photos until Tuesday night at 6:00pm even if I shot the game the previous Wednesday afternoon.
This particular client is a small family owned newspaper.
So I will just heed the advice, and you can be sure it will be in ALL future agreements.
Boy how the world has changed.... LOL
joe brown |
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Michael Durisseau, Photographer, Assistant
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Santa Fe/Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 10:48 PM on 06.28.11 |
| ->> Just to comment: I've been holding on to photos until after the publication of our paper (another family-owned operation) for years, and without any nudging. It just made sense to me. Now, we attempt to put some on the site in advance to push the paper. I also do contract work for a daily, and I do my best not to use the same photo in both publications. |
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