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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Never turn your back when shooting car racing
Michael McNamara, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Steve Russell, Photographer
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Toronto | ON | Canada | Posted: 5:57 PM on 06.11.11 |
| ->> Wow! |
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Dan Routh, Photographer
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Greensboro | NC | USA | Posted: 6:03 PM on 06.11.11 |
| ->> Hasn't been a good day for Audi. First McNish and then Rockenfeller. The difference in speeds between the prototypes and the GT cars is extraordinary and seems to be causing problems. Two drivers and a bunch of photographers have been lucky. |
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Steven Bisig, Photographer
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Seattle | WA | USA | Posted: 6:13 PM on 06.11.11 |
| ->> Looks like if that car gain about 1 more foot of vertical when it skipped, some bystanders probably would have been killed. Scary! |
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Sam Morris, Photographer
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Henderson (Las Vegas) | NV | USA | Posted: 8:00 PM on 06.11.11 |
->> I was just going to post this. Scary how close that car came to taking out a bunch of people.
Around :15 in this version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2Nb0Ienv6k it looks like one of the wheels is out to get a photographer. |
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Mike Doran, Photographer
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Petaluma | CA | U.S.A. | Posted: 8:29 PM on 06.11.11 |
| ->> This crash and the consequences from it will be brought up at the photo meetings I am a part of at Infineon Raceway and Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca. Those photographers were very lucky to walk away from this very scary incident. |
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Jamey Price, Photographer, Assistant
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Charlotte | NC | USA | Posted: 10:57 PM on 06.11.11 |
->> @Mike, But what is there to be done to improve safety for us except move us farther from the action and put more fencing up making things no safer and harder to work with. We take as much risk being there as the drivers do. It was a bad series of events and yes, everyone is lucky, but keeping your eyes up is the only thing to be done, in my opinion.
PS. Freeze the frame at 1:03 and change. Jeeeeeeez. |
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Paul Hayes, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Littleton | NH | USA | Posted: 11:33 PM on 06.11.11 |
->> @Sam you mean the person in the blue vest who is completely oblivious to the crash and the tire that came down two feet behind them?
There is one photog that appears to get hit with a piece of 'shrapnel' from the immediate crash and another, with a long lens running towards the camera, that would have been in the path of the rogue tire once it came down and ricocheted off the protective fence. |
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Geoff Miller, Photographer
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Portage | MI | USA | Posted: 12:38 AM on 06.12.11 |
| ->> Once again, the problem seems to a small raised area (in this case where the brown gravel meets the gray gravel). All it takes is a couple of inch rise to launch a car. "Kitty litter" is great for car safety, as long as it's flat. Here's another example of what that can do: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoxWT59NEfY I had walked in the area where Patrick came down earlier in that same day! |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 2:17 PM on 06.12.11 |
->> Bottom line when shooting any sport is to be safe, a foul ball coming off the bat @ 150mph can kill or hurt you and it doesn't matter whether it's high school or professional or somewhere in between.
DON'T turn your back - period. |
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Mike Doran, Photographer
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Petaluma | CA | U.S.A. | Posted: 5:01 PM on 06.12.11 |
| ->> The biggest thing that I saw about the crash was that several photogs looked like they were not paying attention to what was happening in front of them. |
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Nic Coury, Photographer
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Monterey | CA | | Posted: 2:58 AM on 06.13.11 |
->> @Mike,
Those runoff areas looked awfully short for some odd reason.
Being one that's shot a Laguna a bunch, I don't see that happening in Monterey, but you never know.
I'll be interested to hear how this affects photo pit areas at various racetracks. |
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Jamey Price, Photographer, Assistant
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Charlotte | NC | USA | Posted: 9:45 AM on 06.13.11 |
->> @Nic, that runoff is huge. The car was on the gravel for a good hundred yards or more before it hit the tyre wall. That is far more than most circuits on Earth.
But agreed, the kitty litter is helpful if its flat but if it has a lip, it has the potential to send a car airborne...
Here are some amazing photos I found.
http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/notw/nol_sport/1319307/British-driver-Allan... |
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Jack Megaw, Photographer
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Pittsburgh | PA | USA | Posted: 10:44 AM on 06.13.11 |
->> I think the size of the gravel trap is fine - the lip at the end I don't understand how it could even be there. And possibly the gravel trap might not be deep enough to significantly slow a car from that speed. The other thing that really surprised me besides the lip is how small the barrier is. They're lucky the car didn't shoot off the lip clean over the top of the barrier let alone stay inside of it as it did.
On a modern circuit though that is very shocking with all the safety standards that are put in place these days. I think you're always going to have fluke crashes which happen in strange places but it's not like this crash happened on a corner where people don't go off.
In the end increasing track safety will hurt photographers - we'll be pushed back - we'll have to shoot through fences or have more restricted access.
We can only dream of getting this kind of access again: http://www.sutton-images.com/previews/6719507.jpg |
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Jamey Price, Photographer, Assistant
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Charlotte | NC | USA | Posted: 1:53 PM on 06.13.11 |
->> As sports photographers we take risks that the public does not. By taking the job, you accept that you are putting yourself in harm's way and that's the end of it. I agree with Jack. Larger run offs, more tire barriers and fences make our jobs harder at the end of the day and the kicker is, it still may not make it any safer because there will always be fluke accidents like this one.
By doing what you love, you take risks. And what we all love is shooting sports. Some sports are inherently more dangerous than others. Go out there, do your job, pay attention and if you return home safe and sound then count your lucky stars and do it again the next day! |
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Tim Huntington, Photographer
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Monterey | CA | USA | Posted: 1:55 PM on 06.13.11 |
->> @Nic
You get a lot closer to the action at Laguna that most places (thankfully) - partly 'cos Laguna's a slower track and partly 'cos it's a still a somewhat dangerous track.
See:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoxWT59NEfY
(another lip of gravel launch)
and (WARNING - THIS ACCIDENT WAS FATAL)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19Fl1e79O1Y
The top of the corkscrew was modified after the latter, but it should be plain to see that big freak accidents can happen at any time at any track. |
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 2:05 PM on 06.13.11 |
| ->> Holy Crap!! In the footage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2Nb0Ienv6k that Sam posted, at 2:30 the slow motion replay shows a photog in a pink shirt continues shooting even though the car is plowing straight at him. It looks like to me he keeps firing even as the debris is raining down on and around him. Sure would like to see those images! |
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Robby Milo, Student/Intern
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Boise | ID | USA | Posted: 10:23 PM on 06.13.11 |
| ->> Good thing Audi went with closed cockpits this year. Their two crashes could have been much worse with the open design of the R15. |
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Richard Uhlhorn, Photographer
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Chelan Falls | WA | USA | Posted: 10:59 PM on 06.13.11 |
->> Phil... the problem is what do you do when a car is coming at you out-of-control and at speed.
Years ago before I became a photographer, I was standing on the edge of pit lane at Pacific Raceways (SIR) when a Can Am car went out of control and careened towards us. There was no place to go because there was no telling where the race car was going to end up. Fortunately, it didn't hit anyone.
Racing is a dangerous sport and photographers have to take that controlled risk to get the shot which often means being close to the action. |
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Jeff Barrie, Photographer
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Indianapolis | IN | USA | Posted: 11:27 PM on 06.13.11 |
| ->> What always kills me in any crash shots I have ever had is the people in the background. A crash is happening right in front of them and they have no clue as to what is happening. |
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Baron Sekiya, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Hilo | HI | USA | Posted: 3:34 AM on 06.14.11 |
->> I saw a paramedic once get her leg worked from a supercross bike that went off the track, she was facing the wrong way and it's so noisy she never heard it coming. But I could almost hear her screaming as they carried her off using her own medic unit to transport her out of the arena.
Also never turn your back on the ocean, that'll work you and your gear too.
In December there was a pickup driving on the street near where I was walking on the sidewalk. The tire broke free (repair shop probably forgot to replace the lug nuts) and the big tire went bouncing in 15' bounces, hit a plate glass window (didn't break) and started to roll back into traffic. I ran up and kicked the damn thing over. |
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Drew Hierwarter, Photographer
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Kingsport | TN | USA | Posted: 8:17 AM on 06.14.11 |
->> I've been shooting motorsports for 30 years now and I have been to race tracks that would not let photographers shoot from places that in my experience were perfectly safe, while at other times I have been allowed to shoot from places that were not. There seems to be no common sense at times. And a lot of race tracks in recent years have eliminated some perfectly good shooting locations by being too cautious.
The most important thing to me in a shooting location is to have good sight lines to see what's coming before it's in shooting range and one that has some room to get out of the way in case of trouble.
And gravel traps are a really bad idea. They only work if the car is upright and rolling on it's wheels. In that Le Mans video, notice that the car is just skimming along the top of the gravel. It hardly slows the car at all. Watkins Glen has replaced it's gravel traps with asphalt and that works much better at slowing a sliding car.
But, like several have already said, there's no substitute for paying attention, keeping your head on a swivel, and never relax. |
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Richard Uhlhorn, Photographer
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Chelan Falls | WA | USA | Posted: 10:33 AM on 06.14.11 |
| ->> Talking about being in close proximity of race cars... has anybody watched or covered a World Rally Event? I am totally amazed at how close spectators and photographers can get to these cars which are always on the edge of being totally out of control. |
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Jamey Price, Photographer, Assistant
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Michelle Hedstrom, Photographer
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Arvada | CO | US | Posted: 11:11 PM on 06.26.11 |
| ->> I did motocross yesterday, and there was one spot where I was pretty paranoid about shooting from. This one was in the middle of the track. On one side, you had a jump landing heading north. On your other side, you had a turn heading south (the end of the turn). Talk about looking around a lot. I didn't shoot from there from very long, especially once I noticed that if the riders overshot that turn, they would come straight for me. |
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Drew Hierwarter, Photographer
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Kingsport | TN | USA | Posted: 8:27 AM on 06.27.11 |
| ->> See, once again, in the video Jamey posted, the gravel trap didn't slow that car at all. Scary stuff. |
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Jamey Price, Photographer, Assistant
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Charlotte | NC | USA | Posted: 11:47 AM on 06.27.11 |
->> Yeahhhh. But gravel NORMALLY does the best job. Some places have the very rough pavement which will save the car and more than likely let it return to racing but wont really slow it any or at all. That just looked like another freak accident.
Saw another video from this weekend's racing at the 'ring' where a car got sideways, hit one of the MONSTER curbs and got airborne and went over the armco. Luckily, no photographers in sight or that could have been ugly as well.
Im still of the opinion that we all voluntarily sign up for this. I accept the risk and the danger involved with it. If we make it too safe and the tracks push us TOO far back from the racing, then no one benefits and there will of course ALWAYS be freak accidents that will maim or kill drivers, spectators and media. Its just the way things are, always have been and always will be. |
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Drew Hierwarter, Photographer
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Kingsport | TN | USA | Posted: 3:37 PM on 06.27.11 |
->> "I'm still of the opinion that we all voluntarily sign up for this. I accept the risk and the danger involved with it. If we make it too safe and the tracks push us TOO far back from the racing, then no one benefits and there will of course ALWAYS be freak accidents that will maim or kill drivers, spectators and media. Its just the way things are, always have been and always will be."
I agree completely. |
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