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AP Needs Baltimore Photog
Jim Colburn, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 12:33 PM on 04.16.11 |
->> Anybody applying to the Associated Press should be aware that the company is in the process of negotiating a new contract with the Wire Service Guild. Currently, the company is threatening immediate layoffs if the guild doesn't accept the current offer.
I would be very reluctant to get in the middle of something like that.
--Mark |
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David Harpe, Photographer
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Darren Whitley, Photographer
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Northwest Missouri | MO | USA | Posted: 2:44 PM on 04.16.11 |
| ->> AP hires GWC, MWC! |
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Jim Colburn, Photo Editor, Photographer
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McAllen | TX | USA | Posted: 10:19 PM on 04.16.11 |
->> I don't think that the AP would go ahead with a hire if they are about to lay people off. Could be that they'd do the pre-hire stuff (resumes, portfolios, interviews, etc.) and then wait until the Guild thing is settled before making the actual hire.
In other words, if you're interested, express your interest. |
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Doug Pizac, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 2:00 AM on 04.17.11 |
->> The mass layoffs is said by some to be a scare tactic to force acceptance of contract concessions onto the employees -- the freeze and transfer of the established pension plan where AP is responsible for its financial stability to another type where AP has little or no responsibility. And according to reports, there's already been no pay raises for the staff over the last two years.
Should AP make good on the threat and start laying off people to cut expenses as they say they must, then according to the contract: "If vacant positions are available at the time the Employer determines that a reduction in force is necessary, then the Company will offer vacant positions to the affected employees in order of seniority provided the employee has the skills and qualifications necessary to perform the work required for the position."
What this means is that any staff photographers laid off will be offered the Baltimore opening in order of seniority. And I don't know of any former colleague who wouldn't be able to do the job. |
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Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 12:10 AM on 04.18.11 |
| ->> This doesn't surprise me at all. The AP lays off the veteran highly paid photographers and hires a bunch of out of college kids they can pay less than half of what they were paying the seasoned vets. This is happening over and over in every segment of the labor force. Why pay an old fart like me $75K a year for 26 years of experience, when they can pay $24K a year for a young kid that just graduated and it's eager to join the workforce and move out of Mom & Dad's place. |
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Mark J. Terrill, Photographer
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Simi Valley | CA | USA | Posted: 1:54 AM on 04.18.11 |
->> Yamil,
You said "The AP lays off the veteran highly paid photographers and hires a bunch of out of college kids they can pay less than half of what they were paying the seasoned vets."
The Baltimore photographer was not laid off. He quit and went to Getty. A big loss for AP in my opinion, BTW. I can't think of a single instance where the AP has done what you are accusing them of. Can you name one? |
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Mark J. Terrill, Photographer
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Simi Valley | CA | USA | Posted: 1:57 AM on 04.18.11 |
->> Darren,
Care to expand on your post? Do you really think I'm a GWC? |
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Mark J. Terrill, Photographer
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Simi Valley | CA | USA | Posted: 6:30 PM on 04.18.11 |
| ->> Also the minimum that the AP pays it's photographers in a major city like LA, DC or NY is about $47,000 and, after five years on the job, the top scale is about $70,000. Of course those figures don't include overtime or merit raises. |
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Doug Pizac, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 10:10 PM on 04.18.11 |
->> Baltimore is NOT a major city. Starting pay (two or less years experience) is $39,489 per year with top scale (6 years) being $62,036.
Overtime and merit raises are other issues that cannot be automatically assumed. What may be the norm or available in one bureau is not necessarily the same in another. Each bureau is different. |
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Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 10:47 PM on 04.18.11 |
| ->> Mark, I can get you his name, Forgot it right now, but he was an older fella from Dallas, I'll contact my Buddy out there and get you his name ASAP!! |
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Debra L Rothenberg, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 11:04 PM on 04.18.11 |
| ->> I don't know about DC or LA, but $47k in NYC is nothing. Top scale at $70k isn't much either, unless you want to live way out in Queens or Staten Island. |
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Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 11:17 PM on 04.18.11 |
->> Harry Cabluck got laid off in TX, who is doing his job?? It's not being done by itself.
I'm not asserting they hired someone immediately, but I don't think they hired another Veteran. If they hired someone else, how much you want to bet they will hire someone with less experience and less pay. And Deb is right, $47K in the city is living in poverty. Heck, even in Phoenix you can't buy a decent house on $47K a year.
Y |
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George Bridges, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | USA | Posted: 11:52 PM on 04.18.11 |
->> Yamil,
To my knowledge there has been no staffer in Austin in the past year or so and I've heard of no rumors to hire one to replace the positively un-replaceable Mr. Cabluck.
Who is doing his job? Freelancers and member pickups. That is the way in many state capitals these days. With papers dwindling in size and less want for focused, state house coverage, capitol bureaus were seen as places for the AP to make cuts management felt necessary. I'll leave it up to others to debate whether this was a good idea or not or necessary. |
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Doug Pizac, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 1:07 AM on 04.19.11 |
->> AP eliminated the lone staff photographer positions in Austin, Salt Lake City, Anchorage, a city in either North or South Carolina, and two part-time Boston positions in 2009.
Up until August 2004 when the mountain west states were split up between Denver and Seattle jurisdictions, my SLC territory ranged from the Utah-Arizona border to Canada. Today, my former job duties and those of the others who were let go two years ago are now being done by freelancers, member/newspaper contributions and reporters with cameras for the most part. Staff photographers from other states fly into Utah and Idaho for big events such as last year's NCAA regional March Madness tourney, the first Boise State football game when they started out highly ranked, etc. World Cup and World Championship ski/skate events are strung.
The Denver bureau covers NFL, MLB, NHL, MLS and NBA teams in addition to all the ski events and news stories that abound there. These were done with two staff photographers and the help of a few stringers. Six months ago one of the staffers was let go as a staff reduction. I was told he was replaced by three freelancers who were former Rocky Mountain news shooters. |
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Mark J. Terrill, Photographer
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Simi Valley | CA | USA | Posted: 1:50 AM on 04.19.11 |
->> Yamil,
You've named one person who was laid off along with several hundred other workers at the AP. Who are the "bunch of out of college kids" they hired to replace them? You've made this statement as though it's endemic within the AP. Again, if it's going on, I've never seen it.
Your assertion that they would lay off top scale staffers in order to pay new staffers less would only work for a few years since the pay goes up every year until they reach top scale after five years. Also, as I understand it, they wouldn't be able to replace him for 18 months. If they re-open the position within that 18 month period, they would have to offer it back to the photographer that was originally let go.
I'm not really trying to defend the AP, but as a journalist I like people to have their facts straight. All of this information is easy to find on the internet. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 8:50 AM on 04.19.11 |
->> Rule #1 of posting on Sportsshooter:
NEVER let the facts get in the way of your posts. EVER! |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 9:31 AM on 04.19.11 |
->> One of the downsides of a nationwide contract can be the fact there is no difference what is paid for the same work regardless of location.
While $47K may be nothing in NYC, it would be a decent salary in Des Moines. The costs of housing in NYC or SFO is quite high compared to other places in the country, so other costs (like household insurance) will be higher as well.
I'm not defending any position here, just pointing out that what is viewed as a bad salary in one market may be viewed as fair or good in another. One of the challenges union members face on a national level is that costs are not uniform across the country. |
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Brian Blanco, Photographer
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Tampa / Sarasota | FL | USA | Posted: 9:34 AM on 04.19.11 |
| ->> Chuck: THANK YOU |
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Darren Whitley, Photographer
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Northwest Missouri | MO | USA | Posted: 10:12 AM on 04.19.11 |
->> Mark,
It's an exaggeration. But it follows the trend of news organizations as a whole taking content from people who are not professionals. As support for photojournalists like yourself shifts away from mainstream media, folks like yourself may not be the folks collecting the news going forward.
The comment is completely cynical about how low the standard might get for a photographer. The standard has as it's gotten incredibly low in other genres of photography already. Buy a camera... call yourself a professional and tada! You're in business.
It's not a comment about photojournalists who currently work for AP nor anyone in Baltimore. I've never even set foot in that town. |
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Sam Morris, Photographer
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Henderson (Las Vegas) | NV | USA | Posted: 11:14 AM on 04.19.11 |
| ->> Michael, the guild contract with the AP provides for a pay differential depending on where one is based. |
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
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Dallas | TX | US | Posted: 12:15 PM on 04.19.11 |
->> This thread is absolutely amazing -- everything I love about the insanity of this message board (misinformation, bickering, stupidity) all rolled into one. But my favorite part?
"And Deb is right, $47K in the city is living in poverty."
Yamil, I've met some very poor people in my life who would find that sentence as ridiculous as you saying Gigli is a masterpiece of cinema.
- gerry - |
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Doug Pizac, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 12:24 PM on 04.19.11 |
->> The guild contract ONCE provided for a sliding pay differential depending on where one was based. There were A-, B-, C- and D-class cities with all the others grouped as non-class. A-class employees received thousands of dollars per year more than those in non-class cities. This was to take into account the cost of living differences between locations.
AP eliminated the class system for all but "A" years ago. Those in A-class cities (New York, Washington, Washington AP Radio/Broadcast News and Washington/NYC APTN operations, Anchorage, Berkeley, Boston, Chicago, College Park (Md.), Elgin, Garden City, Honolulu, Juneau, Los Angeles, McLean (Va.), San Diego, San Francisco, San Jose, Springfield (VA), White Plains) get an extra $137.70 per week -- $7,160 per year. This is according to the AP-Guild contract that can be found at the www.newsmediaguild.org website.
The extra differential money is on top of the base pay amounts stated in an earlier post.
As to staff photographers being let go and then being replaced by new lower paid staffers, that is not true nor can it happen under the contract. However, staff photographers can be replaced by lower paid freelancers as illustrated by an earlier posting (ie. Denver) under the titles of staff reduction or job elimination. The caveat however is that should AP want to recreate that job within 18 months of eliminating it, then the displaced photographer or writer has first dibs on getting his/her job back. |
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Nic Coury, Photographer
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Monterey | CA | | Posted: 12:33 PM on 04.19.11 |
->> In my opinion, (a good) salary depends on the market.
I would mind making 40K, but then again I'm 27, single and don't have too many assets other than a house I own. Oh, and I live in Monterey, Calif. Not too shabby... |
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Debra L Rothenberg, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 12:47 PM on 04.19.11 |
->> G.J-sorry, but $47k in NYC doesn't get you much. Maybe a studio share with another person. $47k in other parts of the country is a great salary, but NOT in NYC, Northern NJ or even where I moved from-Monmouth County, NJ (down the "shore"). Yamil wasn't talking about other parts of the country-he was talking about city living.
NYC USED to be a place where people in the arts could come and do their craft, live well and have a nice life. Not so much anymore. A dumpy piece of crap apt, om, a ROOM (9x12) will cost a min. of $2k a month PLUS electric. That's a base rent of $24k a year. If someone is making $47k before taxes, they are scraping by. Just go look at the apts on Craigslist for NYC to see what they charge here. |
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
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Dallas | TX | US | Posted: 1:16 PM on 04.19.11 |
->> I know people who live in Phoenix and NYC who make about that, maybe less. They're not living in opulence, but they do ok.
- gerry - |
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Debra L Rothenberg, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 3:35 PM on 04.19.11 |
->> they are doing "ok" IF they have lived here (NYC) for many years-and in a rent controlled or rent stabilized apt, or have roommates.
Just breaking down normal living expenses in NYC-
average rent-$2k month x12=$24k (and $2k is USUALLY for a small dumpy apt. There are deals to be found, but they are few and hard to find)
electricity-$1200 year
monthly metro card-$104x12=1248
cable tv/hi speed=$1200
all this equals roughly $28,368
Also-just wondering if an AP staffer in NYC is required to have a car...I don't know. I know it has been asked at several of the NY area dailies if freelancers have cars (I was asked 12 years ago when I started freelancing for the Daily News and it would have been nearly impossible to do the assignments without a car, or a scooter to get around. It would be worse now, especially on weekends when the subways run like it was the dark ages). So if oyu have a car/motorcycle/scooter-there is more $ involved.
ad in food, IF you want any entertainment, etc. Take out taxes.
Sorry, if someone is making $47k, they are not doing "ok." If they are in their 20's it may seem so but please find me one person over the age of 35 who could be "comfortable" in this situation.
G.J-picture this. You're a single man in NYC about to get married. You are making $47k, your soon to be wife is making the same. In 2 years you think you will want to start a family, which means for at least a little time, your wife won't be able to work. Can you survive on $47k?
I personally know several people here in NYC that are earning about this but they have been here for 10 plus years, in the same apt (rent stabilized) and they would like to get married and start families and they can't. They don't drink, they don't go out much, they lead very basic lives and they are worried. If they ever wanted to own a home, it is out of the question. |
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Willis Glassgow, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Florence | SC | USA | Posted: 3:43 PM on 04.19.11 |
| ->> The staffer in South Carolina was laid off and NOT replaced and there is no intention of hiring anyone else, young or old in the future. I know this cause I string for AP and have been for the last 10 years. North Carolina has two staffers. Both are great shooters and great guys. Chuck can attest to that. |
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
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Dallas | TX | US | Posted: 3:49 PM on 04.19.11 |
->> OK, ok, I get it. Your "city" is expensive. Jesus. Let's drop this already.
I still stand by the notion, however, that Yamil's point was idiotic at best; that, or he needs to choose is words more carefully.
Maybe for his lifestyle $47,000 a year would be akin to poverty, but for the millions of folks (maybe some are photographers) living below the *actual* poverty level, $47 large would be a welcome sight.
That is all.
- g - |
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Jim Colburn, Photo Editor, Photographer
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McAllen | TX | USA | Posted: 4:25 PM on 04.19.11 |
| ->> And all I wanted to do was let people know of an AP job opening.... |
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
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Dallas | TX | US | Posted: 4:38 PM on 04.19.11 |
->> "->> And all I wanted to do was let people know of an AP job opening...."
Man, that makes me feel even worse. It's like the one nice thing you do on the message board and I help shit all over it.
Apologies. |
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Mark J. Terrill, Photographer
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Simi Valley | CA | USA | Posted: 4:39 PM on 04.19.11 |
->> Debra,
The car allowance minimum is about 5,200 a year, but goes up based on how many miles you drive.
It wasn't my intention to direct this thread toward money. I was only trying to point out that the starting pay isn't the $24,000 that Yamil had asserted.
It's also worth pointing out that long time AP photographer Dave (Mullet) Martin, who I'm guessing is in his mid to late fifties and was laid off a few years ago, was rehired last year. Dave is one of the best out there and a hell of a guy. Not someone that you could replace with a college student. |
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Brian Blanco, Photographer
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Tampa / Sarasota | FL | USA | Posted: 4:52 PM on 04.19.11 |
| ->> Mark, I'm not sure anyone knows *exactly* how old Mullet is... least of all Mullet himself. And you're right, nobody could EVER replace The Mullet Man. |
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David Harpe, Photographer
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Denver | CO | USA | Posted: 5:02 PM on 04.19.11 |
->> ...
...In this corner...weighing in with 200 words of high octane rhetoric-generating power...GROSS GENERALIZATION!
...and in this corner, the challenger...a mathematical monster...a calculating comet...a fire hose of figures...NAPKINBACK MATH!
...in a fact-bending, post-ranking, mind-numbing fight to the thread max! |
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George Bridges, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | USA | Posted: 6:37 PM on 04.19.11 |
->> Jim, that will teach you try to do something nice. Now, go back to your grouchy ways.
Mark, I don't think any just-out-of-college photographer will be prepared to fry a turkey in a Super Bowl trailer compound like Mullet. That takes years of experience to learn. |
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Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 8:18 PM on 04.19.11 |
->> GJ, Try living in the city in a decent place making $47K a year, I tried in Stamford, CT in 1987 and failed and Stamford is a whole lot cheaper than the City.
You are in Dallas, that is a great place to live in a budget, I lived in Irving from 85-87 and I had a luxury 1 Br apartment for under $300 a month, the rent went down when I signed a 1 yr lease. I don't know the cost of living there now, but it can't be as high as NYC.
But, who cares anyway, it seems that differing opinions here are received like a kick in the nuts. If your post is not what the vocal loud minority feels is right, the insults fly. I just gave an opinion, and if you don't like it, you don't have to be insulting about it. Where is all that tolerance I hear so much about in the politically correct crowd?? |
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Michael Ip, Photo Editor, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 8:40 PM on 04.19.11 |
->> Gerry,
They're probably living in the outer boroughs or have roommates. Which is a completely different than living in Manhattan. |
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Kent Nishimura, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Honolulu | HI | USA | Posted: 8:53 PM on 04.19.11 |
| ->> i have a friend living in manhattan on a 48k a year salary. he seems to be doing alright. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 9:10 PM on 04.19.11 |
| ->> okay folks this is off topic but I just gotta put this out there....Yamil, after reading your responses over the years I have to say you take more offense than anyone on this site when someone disagrees with YOUR often misinformed responses. I'm not "kicking" you in the nuts...I'm just being very straight forward, no one in the posts "insulted" you. you took offense for being called out for idiotic misinformed statements. I'm sure now you will send me another one of your threatening emails telling me how you're going to send your "LEO" buddies after me, feel free, I'm just really tired of hearing you spout off the nonsense which you have NO IDEA what you're talking about on the site. in fact, this is one of the reasons I have avoided the message board for about three weeks. sportsshooter has degraded into this sniping white noise site because people such as yourself take offense for being confronted over their misinformed opinions. various opinions are fine. this is what this country was formed on...but getting all riled up as you do over someone who disagrees with you because you have NO factual information to back up your statements is WRONG. I apologize for anyone this might have offended but I'm really sick of this nonsense. there are way too many people on this site who SAY they are professionals when they are not. |
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Louis Lopez, Photographer
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Southern California | CA | USA | Posted: 9:26 PM on 04.19.11 |
| ->> So...47K sounds pretty good?? |
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Michael Ip, Photo Editor, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 9:40 PM on 04.19.11 |
| ->> For the record, while Harlem and Washington Heights are part of Manhattan, they are understood to not be "Manhattan" when talking about rent and where you live. So yes it is possible to live in Manhattan for $48k. |
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Bob Ford, Photographer
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Lehighton | Pa | USA | Posted: 9:54 PM on 04.19.11 |
| ->> Maybe this is one of the reasons Sports Shooter doesn't want job posting on the message board... "Also, please note that this message board is not the place to list a job opportunity, or an item for sale." |
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Mark Sutton, Photographer
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Herndon | VA | USA | Posted: 11:50 PM on 04.19.11 |
| ->> You know. Liddy makes a point. Did I just type that.... |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 11:57 PM on 04.19.11 |
| ->> Liddy makes a damn good point. Thanks, Chuck. |
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Kent Nishimura, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Honolulu | HI | USA | Posted: 2:39 AM on 04.20.11 |
| ->> @mike ip: i know he doesnt live in those areas...can't think of where exactly but its not washington heights. and he used to live in harlem...but moved to the place he's currently living. |
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Mark J. Terrill, Photographer
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Simi Valley | CA | USA | Posted: 5:19 AM on 04.20.11 |
->> Yamil,
I certainly wasn't trying to insult you. I was only trying to straighten out the misinformation, which there is a tremendous amount of out there where the AP and other organizations are concerned.
Darren,
I see where you're coming from, but wouldn't it be foolhardy for a news organization to turn down a newsworthy picture that a professional doesn't have just because a GWC or MWC shot it? Obviously, it has to be vetted, but other than that I don't see a problem. I have absolutely no fear of a writer or a GWC replacing me because I feel that I have something more to offer than they do. When I started shooting 30 years ago, I had an edge on a lot of other people because I could manually focus better than most others. With the advent of autofocus, I lost that edge and now a GWC can get a picture as sharp as I can, so I had to find something else that gave me an edge. I'm continually doing that to stay ahead of the game, keep myself interested and remain valuable to my employer.
George,
As long as I live, I will never forget watching Mullet fry Turkeys outside at the Detroit Superbowl in 2006 where it was 20 degrees and snowing. He still managed to set the ground on fire, but the Turkey was awesome. I have pictures somewhere. I'll have to dig them out. |
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George Bridges, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | USA | Posted: 8:55 AM on 04.20.11 |
->> Mark, that is the event I was thinking of. Anytime I hear Mullet mentioned I think of him crossing the compound with a turkey headed for the fryer.
And thanks for posting an insider's view of the AP contract terms so we can all see that the experienced are not being replaced with cheaper workforce, they are just not being replaced. |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 9:23 AM on 04.20.11 |
| ->> Thanks to Jim for posting the listing. A $50K job with benefits is certainly something that should be of interest to many people. |
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