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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Funny Comments About Baseball Cliche Photos
Brad Mangin, Photographer
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Pleasanton | CA | USA | Posted: 6:21 PM on 04.01.11 |
->> Good afternoon everyone. I love to peruse the message board at http://www.sportsjournalists.com to see what sports copy editors, etc. have going on in their world. Today I stumbled upon a thread complaining about cliche baseball photos that made me laugh.
http://www.sportsjournalists.com/forum/index.php/topic,82953.0.html
I can laugh because I have taken part in the practice of shooting these cliches and putting them on the wire in the past. Reading comments like these just makes me want to work harder, not get mad.
This is how it starts. I just LOVE the awesome newsroom bitterness/truth in the message board. These are the guys in the trenches cranking out tons of pages on deadline while making no money:
"It only took you (AP) 67 minutes into the season before you ran your first two BLEEPING dimwit cliched "pitcher hangs head in dejection as batter rounds bases in background" pictures. Looking forward to 9,000 more over the next six months."
Followed by this:
"I can only assume this means nobody has turned a double play yet."
Enjoy. |
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Mike Brice, Photographer
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SLC | UT | USA | Posted: 6:52 PM on 04.01.11 |
| ->> How long before I have to read the first baseball cliche..... |
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Rod Mar, Photographer
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Seattle | WA | USA | Posted: 7:07 PM on 04.01.11 |
| ->> In fairness, didn't that photo run after the pitcher gave up back-to-back bombs against the first two batters of the SEASON? |
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Michael McNamara, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Phoenix | AZ | USA | Posted: 7:39 PM on 04.01.11 |
->> If the people on that thread want more creative, prettier pictures, I hope none of the complainers ever says something like this to a photographer or photo editor:
"Hey, do you have a photo of so-and-so's home run in the fourth inning?" |
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Erik Markov, Photographer
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anywhere | IN | | Posted: 8:32 PM on 04.01.11 |
->> best line I have ever read.
"Something tells me it isn't that simple, that maybe hearing their side of the story would add some perspective.
Or maybe I'm wrong, and the only people stretched thin and doing what two or three people used to do are writers and deskers."
I would love to shake this guy's hand. |
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Brad Barr, Photographer
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Port St. Lucie | FL | USA | Posted: 8:51 PM on 04.01.11 |
| ->> Interesting comments....as one of both: those "Florida shooters" and "US Presswire shooters" :-) |
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Brad Mangin, Photographer
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Pleasanton | CA | USA | Posted: 12:28 AM on 04.02.11 |
->> My favorite line:
"Getty and US Presswire are the way to go, if you can afford them." |
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Chris Pietsch, Photographer
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Eugene | OR | USA | Posted: 2:02 AM on 04.02.11 |
| ->> I remember a sports editor back in the day announcing to all that he didn't want to see another play at second on the sports front, "unless there was a fatality!" |
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Adam Brimer, Photographer, Assistant
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Scott Strazzante, Photographer
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Chicago | IL | USA | Posted: 9:54 AM on 04.02.11 |
->> There also was a comment that the AP didn't cover the McDonald's All-American games in Chicago.
I guess the AP shooter seated next to me was a hologram. |
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Delane B. Rouse, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | US | Posted: 10:45 AM on 04.02.11 |
->> Adam-
That shot of the pitcher is typically made in the bullpen. |
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David Harpe, Photographer
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Denver | CO | USA | Posted: 10:47 AM on 04.02.11 |
| ->> If you're shooting anything that involves a big field and you're shooting it alone, you have to play the percentages or you run the risk of missing something you really need. Taking a chance with a different angle is a whole lot easier when you're working in a team. |
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Adam Brimer, Photographer, Assistant
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Knoxville | TN | USA | Posted: 10:57 AM on 04.02.11 |
| ->> Thanks Delane! |
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
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Dallas | TX | US | Posted: 11:20 AM on 04.02.11 |
->> OK, I know that what I'm about to say ain't gonna make me many new friends -- since a fair number of members on this site make their livings as stringers or staffers for wire agencies -- but I can see it both ways (that is to say, agree with some of their criticisms, but also the ones you all are lobbing back).
In addition to shooting duties here at the DMN, I'm also one of a number of people who substitute on the night photo desk when one of the regular editors takes a day off. I maybe do it once or twice every couple of months, and back when I was trained in summer 2009, I probably did it for six weeks straight.
So here's one thing my experience has taught me -- it's not that uncommon for a wire service (particularly the AP) to drop the ball (pun intended?) on coverage of games, especially baseball. It's not the norm (most times they do a great job), but it can and does happen.
I've seen it from the other services we get (Getty and USP), but again, it seems to happen more often with AP. And -- I won't name names or cities -- I tend to see it from some of the same people in the same regions.
But being a shooter, I get it -- the season is a beating, the games can be hot, sometimes boring, and in reality, there's a finite number of things that can happen. Pitching, batting, plays at the plate, fielding, and jubo and deject. That's pretty much it. Over and over for months and months. Total grind. Add deadlines and what-not to that, and it just gets worse.
Still, there are times when they totally phone it in. I've been in the position several times where I've actually had to call the AP desk in New York City to ask if they could contact the shooter to send more images. I hate making that call about as much as they seem to hate getting it.
And that's the part I never get. Maybe it works differently at wire services, but if I was sent to a Rangers game and only sent in about eight pictures (which, as an editor, I've seen from AP ... and to make it worse, only four would be our team), I would be in a shitload of trouble with the photo desk at my rag.
So the point is, while I think they're being jerky about it, some of the guys in that thread make somewhat valid points. And if you're a wire service shooter reading this and thinking, "Who the [profanity] is this guy to call me lazy?" Well, I'm someone who works for a publication that pays a fair amount of money for you to cover our team when they're away. It's only fair to be annoyed when you deliver the bare minimum.
Ok, having said that, the one thing I can totally disagree with is the comment that, "Getty and US Presswire are the way to go, if you can afford them."
Total BS. I see them slack off, too, and AP totally holds their own to the other two. Yes, Getty has some great sports photographers, but I think AP matches them toe-to-toe. Maybe the images aren't as slick and crisp (seems like AP folks can't do much to their images before sending), but the content's there. That's honestly all I care about. And I usually don't go with USP unless I have to ... and that's for reasons I don't feel like getting into, but if you have half a brain, you can probably figure out why. Other editors here use them and that's fine by me ... I just don't.
Last thing -- sports "journalists" are totally not the ones to point fingers. Yes, there are some great ones, but there's plenty of others who are lazy and seem to only care about the free food in the press box.
FWIW, and with all due respect for my friends at AP, Getty, USP, etc.
- gerry - |
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Brad Mangin, Photographer
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Pleasanton | CA | USA | Posted: 1:54 PM on 04.02.11 |
->> Adam- Delane is right. The GREAT Robert Beck made that terrific cover in the bullpen in Kansas City. There are many bullpens all over the league that are in the outfield below the bleachers, etc. This allows photographers to shoot down on them as they warm up.
Gerry- GREAT post. Well done. I am just lucky that back in the days when I strung for the AP for 80 bucks a game and took my film home with me in 1991 we only had to put out three pictures at the MAX- and sometimes just two. One for AM's and one for PM's. On Saturdays there was no PM cycle so we would just pump out one nice frame TOTAL from a day Giants game at Candlestick! |
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Al Goldis, Photographer
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East Lansing | MI | USA | Posted: 1:56 PM on 04.02.11 |
->> G.J.:
"And that's the part I never get. Maybe it works differently at wire services, but if I was sent to a Rangers game and only sent in about eight pictures (which, as an editor, I've seen from AP ... and to make it worse, only four would be our team), I would be in a shitload of trouble with the photo desk at my rag."
I'm sure you already realize this, but of course it works differently at wire services, particularly the one that covers every single MLB game (or NBA, NFL, or NCAA Div I) on a given night. 10 pictures going directly to your paper's FTP server is a light report but multiply that by however many games that night and it becomes a lot more difficult to manage (especially when an editor has to check and correct every image). |
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
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Dallas | TX | US | Posted: 3:34 PM on 04.02.11 |
->> Al:
Thanks for the reply. That's a good point and I didn't consider it. I still stand by my point, though, based on the handful of experiences I had where a wire service shooter sent in only a few frames, and they were basically garbage. More often than not I watch whatever game is on (Rangers, Mavs, etc.) so I have a concept of what's going on when I get down to editing. In every case that comes to mind, the shooter in the field didn't have any of the key plays, and instead just sent the usuals -- one of each pitcher, one of each big-name batter, and then a really bad base play.
But anyway, those are specific instances and again, they do not reflect the whole service. I'm prone to making generalizations sometimes, but I won't here. Most wire folks (yourself included) do fine work.
Cheers, and thank again for the note,
- g - |
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