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TV insensitivity
Doug Pizac, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 10:44 AM on 02.21.11 |
->> Yesterday there was a make-shift memorial by family and friends outside an International House of Pancakes in Sacramento where a man was killed. Some of the group attacked a Fox TV reporter and camerawoman. Here's the story and embedded video clip.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/02/21/2011-02-21_news_journal...
While the other media appear to have stayed across the street to give the people room to grieve, the Fox team walked up to and in the face of a couple of women -- so close it would be equivalent to a 20mm lens for us. Mourners can be heard asking/telling the two Fox people to leave -- even screaming at them to leave or at least move back and give them space. Instead of following their wishes, they kept taping. Pushes, shoves and taking down the camerawoman finally resulted in them retreating to only a dozen or so feet away. She continued taping from the gutter of the street.
The reporter then does his on-air report saying "This is one of the hazards of the business, but I've got to tell you we didn't expect what we encountered here." DUHhhhhhh! You shove a running video camera in people's grieving faces and you don't expect a reaction? And you are surprised with they turn on you when you refuse to give them a bit of space? Did I miss something when rudely invading people's privacy became a part of our busness? |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 11:01 AM on 02.21.11 |
| ->> Personally, I don't think the tv crew did anything wrong. they were on public property. they weren't all that close...not considering it was a public space and wasn't an "official" memorial service like at a funeral home or church. they have as much right to be on public property as do those "mourners". and "refuse to give them space"? what" they wanted that whole side of the street? the crew backed up and was attacked while they moved away. they were even approached while IN THE STREET. if you read the article a sac bee shooter was also harassed. there is no excuse for this. none. what's the difference in what those people did than me walking up to someone selling wares on the street and knocking them down, punching and kicking them because I thought "they were invading my space?" I hope they press charges against the attackers. Of course, does anyone find the irony in the fact these people were purportedly having a memorial against an act of violence then perpetrated an act of violence themselves? |
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Matthew Bush, Photographer
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Hattiesburg | MS | USA | Posted: 11:25 AM on 02.21.11 |
->> The Bee is reporting that one of their shooters was threatened and chased to her car. It looked like the two women approached the reporter/shooter as they were walking up. The memorial is a pretty good ways back where the main clump of people are. How many times have TV guys and shooters had no problems on scenes like these ?
I have shot many of these type of impromtu memorials for murders/wrecks/accidents and have on a few times been waved in closer by family members. Most of the time in my coverage area at least some of the family members WANT to talk about the victim and encourage people with info about the crime to come forward ESPECIALLY if the tv guys are there.
The tv guys looked like they were trying to get a soundbite from a member of the crowd. Unlike us they can not standoff with long glass if they want a decent package. A news director is going to want a interview anytime they can get it. It make a better packet than just having a voice over. |
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Matthew Bush, Photographer
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Doug Pizac, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 11:32 AM on 02.21.11 |
->> Whether the TV crew had the legal right to share the public sidewalk is not the issue. They had the right. My point is the lack of sensitivity. Other media outlets showed degrees of respect. Did the Sac Bee shooter get up close and personal too? Don't know.
I've covered more funerals and memorials than I can remember. I have found the proper conduct during emotional times is not to go in blazing, but respect the mourners from a respectable distance. And when I want a closer shot I approach the people with my camera down and ask permission to make my photos. Because I was sensitive to them, they nearly always allow me to make pictures within their private world.
There is a flexible area of space surrounding all creatures that is consider private depending on the situation. In a crowded elevator or subway, it is expected you have no space; but in a grieving situation one's personal space is increased. In nature you might be able to photograph a wild bear from 50 yards, but if she has cubs you're toast.
Had the Fox team approached with camera down and asked permission to tape amongst the mourners or ask for an interview then they might have either been allowed to do so or told to please step back a few feet away to give the grievers breathing room. But when they went in with video running they were asking for trouble. You don't approach a barking dog with a bat on your shoulder (the video camera); you use a treat (respect). |
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Doug Pizac, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 12:04 PM on 02.21.11 |
->> A couple more comments: this time regarding plain old common sense, or lack thereof.
If you come across a bee hive or wasp nest and everything is calm then you can expect to be able to make your pictures without much interruption. But if you walk into an agitated swarm (the emotional mourners), it doesn't take a genius to realize you're probably going to get stung.
In looking at the CBS angle -- shot DOWN the sidewalk from a respectable distance -- that too shows the Fox crew up close and impersonal. Had the videographer taken the camera off her shoulder, tempers might have cooled. But from the way she acted in both videos it appears she continued to tape away which probably fueled the fire even more.
I did find it interesting that the CBS reporter made the Fox crew out as the victims. In reality, the mourners are the victims because of their loss and Fox was the intruder. If someone walked in on you during a private moment you would react too regardless if it was on a public sidewalk or in your home.
In another thread going on about the Tucson photographer wanting compensation from the media outlets who used his photo without permission of the child killed in the shooting rampage last month, he was villified by the masses AND media for not being sensitive. But now here we have the mourners being made out as the bad people because of the insensitivity of the TV crew. Sounds like two different standards.
As to making assault arrests, call it even. |
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Wesley R. Bush, Photographer
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Murfreesboro | TN | U.S. | Posted: 12:11 PM on 02.21.11 |
->> I also agree that the reporters had the right to be there, but we all know how emotions can turn quickly when videotaping, photographing or interviewing someone close to a victim. I'm sure it wasn't the first time this news crew was targetted. It won't be the last. Getting in close has both risks and rewards.
Reminded me of a scene I was at a few years ago. This could have gotten bad quickly.
http://www.sportsshooter.com/funpix_view.html?id=1689 |
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Israel Shirk, Photographer, Assistant
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Boise | ID | US | Posted: 12:17 PM on 02.21.11 |
->> Personally, I think attacking anyone at any time is wrong.
That includes when a TV crew is asking if anyone would mind being interviewed.
Justify it as you may, being upset is fine. Asking someone to leave is fine. Attacking someone is not. |
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Adam Vogler, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Kansas City | Mo. | USA | Posted: 3:57 PM on 02.21.11 |
| ->> I don't care how emotional people were there is never justification for this sort of violence, NEVER. Those responsible should be prosecuted. Accepting this sort of behavior as justifiable only causes more of it. |
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Richard Hamm, Photographer
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Athens | Ga | US | Posted: 4:11 PM on 02.21.11 |
->> I gotta go with Chuck on this one.
Sure we've all scene TV crews acting unprofessionaly. I once saw a Fox News guy arrive at a military funeral late. He flew up to the gravesite in a van, jumped out with camera very loudley and started shooting video in the middle of the graveside service. Oh, & I forgot to mention he was wearing jean shorts. I don't care if you just came from a little league game. Find a gas station and change into a suit if you are going to a funeral. Not a pressed shirt and jeans. A suit; end of story.
But these news guys weren't harrasing anybody or pulling anything the rest of us wouldn't do. As a still shooter, I might make a few frames from afar then approach and try to get some information. I feel like that crowd would have turned on me just for trying to talk. Some people just have no understanding of lack of privacy rights in public places.
I've also had lots of people freak out and tell me to stop recording while I was shooting stills. They flip out when I don't hit some button, I try and explain it's a still camera and doesn't shoot video, but they don't get it.
As my grandmother used to say "looks like the public is out today." I used to hate that statement until I realized how rude people could actually be. |
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Mark Smith, Photographer
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Elk City | OK | USA | Posted: 4:11 PM on 02.22.11 |
->> I'm trying to figure out how the crew could have possibly known that it was going to turn violent.
What was the purpose of the public memorial if they didn't want it in the public domain? People have funerals in churches in private and they have graveside memorials outdoors because that is where grave sites are. This is something different. They were having a public memorial at a very public place, presumably because they wanted to bring attention to the death of their friend. Other than they, what would be the purpose of having a memorial at an IHOP?
With those rather reasonable assumptions, I seriously doubt the crew had any idea they were walking into a "bee hive". |
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Israel Shirk, Photographer, Assistant
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Boise | ID | US | Posted: 4:33 PM on 02.22.11 |
| ->> It was at an IHOP because that's where he was shot. |
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Jeff Stanton, Photographer
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Princeton | IN | USA | Posted: 4:49 PM on 02.22.11 |
| ->> I would personally try to feel out the crowd before I started shooting, or shoot from a distance. Regardless, I would prosecute these mourners back to the stone age. Their actions were despicable. |
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Stew Milne, Photographer
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Providence | RI | USA | Posted: 9:25 PM on 02.22.11 |
->> Did the reporter thrown down his own camera person? Then defends her against the crowd. Did I see that right?
Also, yes, these people should be prosecuted. There's no excuse for attacking anyone. |
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Stew Milne, Photographer
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Providence | RI | USA | Posted: 9:28 PM on 02.22.11 |
| ->> Ah, my mistake. From one angle it looks like the reporter throws down his camera person, but from the other angle you can see he's trying to get the woman who's attacker her. |
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Matthew Sauk, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | United States | Posted: 9:49 PM on 02.22.11 |
->> The people should be prosecuted, but to be honest I am sick and tired of video crews just getting right up in the face of people to get "the story".
I personally don't believe you have the right to stick your camera up someones face.
There are times and places to do this, they approached it the wrong way. As soon as that lady started to yell, they should have walked away right away. Instead they sat there it seems asking more questions with the camera on.
You can see that one womens reaction when she turned around, she was shocked/scared. She almost jerks when she looks up and sees the camera.
Again there is no question those people should be found and arrested, but the people with the mic and camera did not help the situation out. |
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Mark Smith, Photographer
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Elk City | OK | USA | Posted: 10:29 PM on 02.22.11 |
->> Has the actual video from the crew's camera been released?
Saying that the camera was "right up in the face" of people, based upon a long shot from another camera, is supposition, at best. |
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Peter Huoppi, Photographer
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New London | CT | USA | Posted: 10:37 PM on 02.22.11 |
->> Raw video from Fox 40:
http://bit.ly/e83LPU |
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Jeff Frings, Photographer
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Milwaukee | WI | USA | Posted: 11:23 PM on 02.22.11 |
->> Doug,
I'm not sure what video you were watching, but the Fox crew appears to initially get no closer than about 5 feet from anyone and in fact the big guy who initially pushes at the camera, (which is equivalent to shoving the camerawomans face) came from what appears to be 50 feet away. The woman who takes the photojournalist down by the hair comes from at least that far away.
The people who attacked the crew should be in jail. The crew could, and probably should have retreated more quickly when they knew the family didn't want to talk and especially when they started getting angry, but they did nothing wrong by asking the family if they wanted to talk. They were attacked as they were walking away.
Just because the other crew was across the street at the time, doesn't mean that they try to talk to the family earlier or hadn't planned on going over at some later point.
Matthew,
I don't think I would classify the crew as being in anyones face. If they feel it is not acceptable to walk up to someone on a public sidewalk and ask them if they want to talk, then perhaps these people should have built their memorial somewhere else. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 11:41 PM on 02.22.11 |
| ->> doug, I have to say I'm somewhat confused by your comments. you were an AP shooter? and you condone this nonsense? this was assault, plain and simple. I've covered numerous memorial situations and never had this happen. condoning this crap does nothing but set all of us back 50 years. |
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Doug Pizac, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 12:09 AM on 02.23.11 |
->> Chuck...
I don't condone the actions of either side. From what I viewed from the different angles was that the Fox TV crew were too close. And how close is their decision. However, the wise decision -- for this and any similar situation -- would be to drop the camera and step back. But that didn't happen. The videographer appeared to keep shooting which appeared to antagonize the people into physical action to stop the taping.
Absolutely the mourners did assault the crew; but the crew needs to share the responsibility by not having the common sense to back off. Thus the comment to call it even.
That's why there's a court defense called justifiable homicide. |
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Thomas E. Witte, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Cincinnati | OH | USA | Posted: 12:49 AM on 02.23.11 |
| ->> Justifiable homicide is only a valid excuse when you kill a yellow jacket that yells at you for your shadow being ON the dotted line. |
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Israel Shirk, Photographer, Assistant
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Boise | ID | US | Posted: 1:46 AM on 02.23.11 |
->> "A homicide may be considered justified if it is done to prevent a very serious crime, such as rape, armed robbery, manslaughter or murder. The assailant's intent to commit a serious crime must be clear at the time."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justifiable_homicide |
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Thomas E. Witte, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Cincinnati | OH | USA | Posted: 2:27 AM on 02.23.11 |
| ->> Way to go Capt. Buzzkill. |
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Jeff Frings, Photographer
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Milwaukee | WI | USA | Posted: 12:09 PM on 02.23.11 |
->> --"the wise decision -- for this and any similar situation -- would be to drop the camera and step back. But that didn't happen. The videographer appeared to keep shooting which appeared to antagonize the people into physical action to stop the taping."
I'm sorry Doug but when someone comes up to me and starts shoving the camera back into my face (literally), you can bet your last dollar that I'm gonna keep rolling to get as much evidence of the assault as possible.
The "raw" video on the Fox website seems to show that they weren't rolling until the crowd started getting violent. If this truly is the raw and the whole raw video, then they weren't even rolling when they first approached the folks on the sidewalk.
As far as the common sense to back off, the video I saw shows the crew or at least the camera person backing off when the family starts to get angry. |
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Jeff Brehm, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Salisbury | NC | USA | Posted: 12:38 PM on 02.23.11 |
->> This and other similar stories we see all the time are the result of people using their positions -- as PJs, as law-enforcement officers, etc. -- to demonstrate the power they think their cameras, badges, whatever gives them. The problem arises when they stop behaving like people and start behaving like assholes.
A person would look at the scene and realize the grief of the participants made it a tense situation. A person would understand that he/she can still get the images they need from a distance without causing conflict. A person also would think about how they would feel if they were one of the mourners, and treat them with the respect that moment of empathy provides.
An asshole says, "I'm doing my job so I have the right to insert myself into any situation I choose, in any way I choose. If someone doesn't like it and attacks me, that's another opportunity for me to demonstrate my importance by shooting/taping images or arresting them, even though I provoked the response."
IMHO and experience, TV attracts a disproportionate share of the latter group. |
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Rod Oracheski, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Wainwright | AB | Canada | Posted: 1:19 PM on 02.25.11 |
| ->> I was always taught that if you're there to document the scene, going into the middle of it and enraging people isn't documenting the scene anymore - it's documenting their reaction to you. |
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Adam Vogler, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Kansas City | Mo. | USA | Posted: 2:20 PM on 02.25.11 |
->> 'This and other similar stories we see all the time are the result of people using their positions -- as PJs, as law-enforcement officers, etc. -- to demonstrate the power they think their cameras, badges, whatever gives them. The problem arises when they stop behaving like people and start behaving like assholes.'
Jeff with all due respect you are way off base here. This and other similar stories are the result of people thinking violence is an acceptable response to things that upset them. Period. The fact that it was a fight that lead to the shooting of the person the memorial was for should illustrate this quite well. There is NO place in civilized society for this kind of behavior and there is NO justification for it. EVER. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 4:09 PM on 02.25.11 |
| ->> well said Adam. that about sums it up. those people acted like a pack of rabid dogs. they even went after the TV crew when they retreated to the street. I hope they throw their butts in jail for a week so they can think about what idiots they are. |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 8:25 PM on 02.25.11 |
->> Because there was a tragedy, they feel they are entitled to some sort of special dispensation.
WRONG.
Of course, there a people that accuse journalists of the same thing.
M |
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Doug Pizac, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 9:33 AM on 02.26.11 |
->> Here's another thing to consider about the state of our industry and how things are portrayed.
Look at the HOW the media covered the story. They went there to document the memorial, yet their leads were about the altercation. The purpose of being there -- the community grieving the violent death of a friend/family member -- was thrown aside and/or buried in the stories for a violent scuffle. |
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