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Video questions for still shooters
Will Powers, Photographer
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Denver | CO | USA | Posted: 2:57 PM on 02.20.11 |
->> For those still shooters that have moved into video, too, I have several questions. Did you get any formal training in shooting video, such as university classes, or seminars? Are you using DSLR with video capabilities, or a dedicated video camera? Did shooting video give you any new respect or disrespect for professional video news photographers?
I'd also like to see more of the pimp my rig. I understand that there is a way to attach an iPad to the DSLR to give a better viewing screen. Any experience or need? |
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 5:03 PM on 02.20.11 |
->> Most of what I've learned --- camera work and Final Cut Pro --- has been self-taught and through my good friend Myung J. Chun.
I have not spent money on formal classes, especially for FCP, but do shoot and edit a lot of things on my own to learn.
DSLR "accessories" has been a lot of info from the Internet and talking to other photographers.
(My "guilty pleasure" video gear website is the fun cheesycam.com.)
Mahalo! |
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Chris Pietsch, Photographer
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Steve Ueckert, Photographer
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Houston | TX | | Posted: 7:22 PM on 02.20.11 |
->> The Platypus Course taught by PF Bently and Dirk Halstead has merit.
Video is best done with a video camera. A DSLR such as the 5D II or even an advanced P&S like the Canon G12 can be used for video but a dedicated video camera with essential peripherals (shotgun & lav mics, monitor quality headphones, solid tripod, lights) makes more sense.
Final Cut Pro isn't essential but it has some nice tools. Much can be done with Final Cut Express or even iMovie for editing. |
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Jay Janner, Photographer
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Austin | TX | USA | Posted: 7:35 PM on 02.20.11 |
| ->> I recommend the NPPA NewsVideo Workshop in Norman, Oklahoma. I learned a lot there. http://bit.ly/ggAFPB |
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Peter Wine, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Dayton | OH | USA | Posted: 7:53 PM on 02.20.11 |
->> I'm kind of a full-circle guy. I started out in video in ancient times (1970's and 80's) and with a stop here and there for radio work and computer programming jobs, worked back into video and then still photography.
An event on Friday was interesting for me. Like Chris, my primary job was to get photos for the newspaper.
As I have in the past, I used three cameras. One short lens, one long lens and a video camera.
Difference was for video I was using a Canon 7D on loan from a friend (after he realized they hadn't brought memory cards for it.)
Normally, I use a dedicated video camera.
Since I hadn't used a 7D before, I used it as they had set it up, and while I want more experience with either a 7D, 5D or 1D Mark IV, I can't see adding a lot of 'extra stuff' to these cameras as a replacement for a video camera.
It would have more value to me as a camera that I use to take still photos, with a bonus of being able to hit 'record' once in a while instead of switching cameras.
While on assignment, there are often times that are best recorded with either still or video cameras, and the ability to have both in a similar 'footprint' to what I'm already using is something I look forward to. |
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Jason Joseph, Photographer
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Dublin | OH | USA | Posted: 8:48 PM on 02.20.11 |
->> Unlike many of those who will reply to this thread, I am the opposite of most of you. 90% of my career has been in video and I have only shot stills for the past 10 or so years. I have used most every type of video camera and I am here to say that there have been very few images that have been produced by video cameras that are at the level of a 5DmkII. To me it is well worth the extra steps to ensure that good audio is recorded via a Zoom H4N or that I use a good external monitor or a Z-Finder to make sure that my focus is right. They are tools just like the camera itself.
As for suggestions for resources, I would recommend http://www.cinema5d.com to learn a great deal about all of the Canon HDSLR's as well as all of the possible tools that can accompany. Speaking of which, my typical kit consists of:
5DmkII / 7D
Canon 16-35, Canon 70-200
Zeiss 50/1.4, Zeiss 85/1.4 - Very important lenses for rack focussing since they have TONS of travel on the focus ring
Zoom H4N, Sennheiser ME67 Shotgun Mic, (2) Shure 185 Wired Lav Mics
Cavision Riser, Rails, Matte Box, Shoulder Mount (I do not recommend this)
RedRock Micro Follow Focus
And the most important piece to the puzzle is the 77mm Vari ND Filter. Hands down the BEST tool for shooting video with a DSLR.
My typical rig can be seen here (http://www.sportsshooter.com/jasonjoseph/hdslr/pages/1.html), although multiple configurations can always be used depending on the situation at hand.
Lastly, if you are in need of any assistance at all in terms of FCP or Premiere, I highly suggest a month to month membership to Lynda.com. They have 100's of hours of tutorials that very well put together. |
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Chris Peterson, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Columbia Falls | MT | USA | Posted: 11:16 PM on 02.20.11 |
->> As a complete and utter newbie, but really liking the fact that I can attach a friggin' 400 mm to a video camera, I have found Vimeo to be extremely helpful.
Tutorials galore here: http://www.vimeo.com/videoschool/lessons |
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David Brooks, Photographer
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San Diego | CA | USA | Posted: 12:30 AM on 02.21.11 |
->> Although I consider myself a photographer I was hired 5 years ago for my video skills. I was taught at Brooks Institute by PF Bentley among others in FCP. But my real education in what was possible didn't really occur till I was making video stories on a regular basis for the paper's website, for one the paper used Premiere. At the time, I thought FCP was the only program for video editing. Back then we shot with the Sony Z1U now we shoot with the 5DMKII. As much as I love the image from the 5D, I would rather shoot with the Canon EX100, and keep the 5D for unique occasions.
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/camcorders/professional_cam...
As far as respect from colleagues, it has always been there, they understand the work that myself and my fellow video shooters are doing. But for the most part outside of my peers, I think there's a misunderstanding when it comes to video for web- I was on an assignment, shooting both stills and video, and the usual conversation started with a passer-by wondering why I was carrying camera gear. When he found out that I was also shooting video his remark was "Oh you shoot that YouTube crap, too." Unfortunately He wasn't joking.
As far as a rig, I wish we had one. Other than the mic's and fluid head tripods our cameras don't look any different. I use a set of Sennheiser wireless mics. My colleagues use Zoom's plugged directly into the 5D with a Sennheiser ME66. Hope that helps. |
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Darren Whitley, Photographer
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Northwest Missouri | MO | USA | Posted: 1:20 AM on 02.21.11 |
->> Great thread. Pimp My Rig has been something I've archived the couple times it's been published.
Last fall I took TV Production at the university I work at. I picked up shortcuts and passed them along to the students who work for me. In addition we've each learned a few new things that the course didn't cover. Just doing it is the best way to learn for sure.
We started off exporting massive files for Youtube and eventually learned to incorporate Compressor into our workflow. I picked up a Youtube settings from someone online which has helped us deploy our videos faster. Dealing with codec issues has been a source of frustration. God bless the WMV! |
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Will Powers, Photographer
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Denver | CO | USA | Posted: 2:44 AM on 02.21.11 |
->> Thank for your responses. I have a MK IV and haven't been able to use it for video effectively in Live view becaus of the small screen. I'm taking a class at a local CC in video shooting (Canon XL2) and a class in editing with FCP. I like the idea of an external monitor like an iPad for the Mk IV.
Deep the ideas coming |
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Rodrigo Pena, Photographer
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Beaumont | CA | USA | Posted: 2:58 AM on 02.21.11 |
->> Hi Will, I'm not doing as much video these days as I used to. I started shooting video about 6 years ago after being a still photographer all of my life. I've always had interest in video and film because as a kid I used to make 8mm movies with my pals in the neighborhood.
I always wanted to do the Platypus Workshop, but could never afford it. It was hard enough on my budget just getting all the gear, like mics, video camera, etc. I did go to a couple of one-day seminars (not Platypus) to try to get more understanding.
A person who worked at my former newspaper also taught us what he knew, which helped. When doing interviews, there's that 180-degree rule. In other words, make sure that the interviewee and the interviewer are looking at each other. It's more complicated than that and I'd be happy to explain it to you if you want. There are lots of other tips too, like video doesn't like subjects in the shadows while the background is blown out.
Like Bert, I have learned a lot by just talking with fellow photographers as we all just dove into video and made a lot of mistakes. We learned from those mistakes. Like whenever you edit, save, save, save! Otherwise, if your computer crashes, you've lost everything. For me it's real easy to hit apple+s to save one or two moves that I've done. Keeps the computer from crashing. Speaking of a computer, the latest and greatest computer with lots of RAM is best to drive your headaches away.
I use Final Cut Express HD (FCE) on my MacBook Pro and it rocks! I have the 7200rpm drive with 4 GB of RAM (maxed out). I love FCE. I'm always learning something new. It was hard to get started with this program, since the manual is difficult to understand, but if you have someone who can show you the basics, it will make your life so much easier. If not, iMovie works until you outgrow it like I did. I had an older version of iMovie and it was constantly crashing and had lots of glitches, I think they've fixed those problems with today's iMovie.
Finally, there's lots of info on the internet. YouTube and Vimeo have lots of free videos that will give you help. If you can afford it, Lynda.com has tutorials that will show you how to work lots of different software for $25 per month.
I purchased a prosumer camera that is quite old by today's standards, but it does the job. It has a 3-CCD chip which means it has more colors and looks better than a single CCD image sensor, but it not very good in low light.
My former newspaper issued me a Sony HD video camera and I found that the colors were not as vibrant. They were more muted and the skin tone was not very good.
The 5DMk2 is a great camera if you can swing it. It may be a little more cumbersome than a regular video camera, but it's got some incredible imagery in low light. That's something a regular video camera has trouble with - low light.
I will say that an HD video camera (Sony) is easier to handle if you are doing ONLY video. If you are doing stills as well as video, the 5DMk2 might be the better way to go. I hated having to carry both my Canon MarkIIN's AND my Sony video camera. Too much gear, especially during spot news events.
Do I have more respect for the TV guys now? You betcha! In fact, I used to pick their brains whenever I would run into one. They have been very helpful! |
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Rodrigo Pena, Photographer
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Beaumont | CA | USA | Posted: 3:07 AM on 02.21.11 |
->> By the way, there is a loop that you can place over the screen on the back of your camera. Apparently, people are raving about it because it improves their focus. For example this:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/736951-REG/Letus35_LTHKVF_AL1D_Hawk_V...
I'm not endorsing this product, just wanted to let you know things like this exist. |
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Myung Chun, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 7:41 PM on 02.21.11 |
->> Self taught through lots of reading, watching, trying and failing.
As a news shooter these are my observations.
I use a Canon 7D and a Sony EX1. I love the 7D for its unique looking images and I use this camera when I have to shoot video and stills. I like the portability and discreet nature of the DSLR, hence I don't pimp out my rig (aside from a Beachtek and a lcd loupe). Also, I'm just lazy enough that I don't want to deal with a separate audio recorder and syncing in post. Too much gear sometimes attracts too much wrong attention. I want to try and look like a tourist as much as possible when I'm shooting in public. Many news subjects, with the exception of celebrities and politicians, are not media-saavy, so I don't want to spook them with too much fancy gear.
I like the interchangeable lenses - think super fast primes -- but I also hate changing lenses because it slows me down and I miss shots. Also, I risk getting dust on the sensor every time the lens is off. You can generally hide dust by shooting at a wider aperture. The ergonomics aren't great but I've found a comfortable way to hold the camera when shooting video. The workflow's a bit slow compared to the Sony's. The FCP plug-in for log and transfer or MPEG Streamclip conversion takes longer than transferring the Sony footage.
The Sony EX1 has ergos better suited to video (adjustable viewfinder and LCD screen), integrated audio and a 14x zoom that allows me to quickly vary my shots from one position. It's heavy (front heavy) and I wish it had better low-light capability. Since it looks more professional, I get approached more often asking if I have a permit to shoot or what "channel" I'm from. The image is sharp but the bokeh is not as appealing as the Canon's.
If I have to run out to cover a fast moving assignment or if I'm at pre-planned events where cameras are expected, I'll grab the Sony. For stories that would require lots of natural light shooting and shooting discreetly, then I'll grab the Canon and fast glass.
I admire the news guys for their speed and ability to quickly get their shots. The nature of breaking news doesn't allow for a lot of creativity, but I've seen some very nice packages when they were given the time. |
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Jeff Frings, Photographer
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Milwaukee | WI | USA | Posted: 9:21 AM on 02.22.11 |
->> Will,
I'm primarily a video shooter who also shoots stills. I can tell you from my experience and observations of some of my younger colleagues that the best way to become a better video shooter is to edit your own video. Obviously you need to shoot a lot too, but you learn more about what shots you should have gotten but didn't or shots you should have done differently by editing your own stuff. Also the more you edit the more you tend to experiment to find different techniques that work for you. |
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Matt Cashore, Photographer
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South Bend | IN | USA | Posted: 9:25 AM on 02.22.11 |
| ->> +1 on what Jeff Frings said. |
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Peter Wine, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Dayton | OH | USA | Posted: 10:25 AM on 02.22.11 |
->> +2 on what Jeff Frings said.
I have a client that likes to shoot video, then brings the footage to me to edit.
I've explained to him what would be helpful to have in the footage that wasn't there, or how he could have moved a little to get a better angle, and he's improved a lot.
But I think he would have improved faster if he'd been doing the editing and see what I meant for himself.
But he's too busy now, and I'm glad to have someone who is able to learn and we both are happy.
I think all photographers that shoot video should edit it at least once to understand the process. Not watch someone edit, but actually have a goal and try to reach the goal with the video you shot. |
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
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Dallas | TX | US | Posted: 2:41 PM on 02.22.11 |
->> Hi Will:
You've gotten some really good responses from very talented folks, and there's not too too much I can add.
I'm a mix of self-taught and "formal" training. In summer of 2009 I was sent by my employer to a Final Cut Pro class that was basically just about editing and such. It met all day for three sessions. For me, it was super helpful, but by no means necessary for everyone. You could easily learn what you need by watching someone else.
FCP is a lot like Photoshop -- there are like several different ways to do one thing. What training did for me was teach me all those ways, and what situations were better for certain techniques. Also, as a "news photographer," I only use a fraction of what that program can do -- basic editing.
Anyway, at that point ('09) more than half the staff here had gone through extensive in-house training with David Leeson, who had taken a buyout in 2008 (which is why my training was external). For help on the shooting side, I had a ton of really talented people with years of experience to help me out. I'd say you could get the same thing from local videographers. I know whenever I'm out and about and have a question, one of our local TV guys will always help me out, and do so gladly. Don't know that you'll get that in every city, though. Newspaper and TV folks in this town have a decent relationship.
Like Myung Chun, the bulk of my learning has been from just doing stuff -- screwing up, swearing at myself, then making the declaration that "I won't do that again!" (though sometimes I do). And again, whenever I've had a question, not being afraid to ask for help.
As far as cameras go, also similar to Myung Chun … well, sorta. I do almost all of my work on an EX-1. I just prefer it. While the video quality I can get on my 5d or MarkIV is amazing, it's the sound that bothers me. I don't have one of those Beachtek things, so I'm not comfortable without control over the audio. Also, even though the EX-1 is a LOT heaving, I find it easier to use. I will occasionally use my Canon's for cutaways, especially if I'm shooting stills and video at once, since one's already around my neck.
I used to be really anti tripod, but now I'm getting into it again. The whole wobbly, hand-held lof-fi thing works in some situations, but a lot of times I think it comes across as sloppy. Same goes for audio -- put as much care, attention and effort into that as you do your video shooting.
I think one thing we forget is that the average viewer has been on a steady diet of hyper-visual television and movies for decades. They don't have patience for shitty product from us. That's my take, anyway.
Last thing -- B-roll, b-roll, b-roll. You literally cannot shoot enough of it. That's a problem I had from the start and something I still wrestle with, time-to-time. I wonder if it's not because it's kind of against our nature as still photographers -- to be really selective about what we shoot.
That doesn't mean b-roll should be garbage, though; someone can tell when a clip is just there to fill space. Every clip you shoot or edit should add layers, depth to the overall story you're trying to tell -- like peeling away at an onion.
Anyway, that's my take. I'm by no means perfect, but I've learned a lot through error, so hopefully I can save you some.
- gerry - |
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
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Dallas | TX | US | Posted: 2:44 PM on 02.22.11 |
->> PS -- this is purely a personal choice, but I've found it very helpful.
A while back a colleague urged me that, while editing, to work on the audio first. Via nat sound, interviews, etc., start building the audio track in your timeline first. Obviously, when you pull in your clips, bring the video in, too. Just build more tracks as you need them, but don't let the thing get too deep and out of control.
I basically do the first batch of my editing more via sound than site. Then, once I have a take I like, I got back to the visuals and build on top of my audio. Make sense?
It may add a small amount of time to your edit, but in the end, you're left with a really cohesive product, and not just a mess of randomness.
- g - |
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David Brooks, Photographer
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San Diego | CA | USA | Posted: 9:04 PM on 02.22.11 |
| ->> I agree completely with G.J. A rough first edit of the A-roll, or interview, onto your timeline will give you the framework to edit the B-roll. I think this is the best way to approach any video because it simplifies the process, basically telling you, however subtle or nuanced, where and when you will use B-roll to illustrate the narrative. |
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Dominick Reuter, Photographer
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Cambridge | MA | USA | Posted: 4:26 PM on 02.23.11 |
->> The two tools I have not seen mentioned yet are almost the most important for longer-form projects:
Pencil and paper (or word-processor and keyboard).
The most successful multimedia started in some form on a paper (or napkin), got captured, then *scripted*, then edited.
This goes hand in hand with what G.J. said about working audio first.
Transcribing your audio and coming up with a paper edit can really illuminate how you organize your piece and also flag areas where you have a gap in your visuals that you need to go back and get.
All of the above is sound advice for getting better-looking visuals, but that won't get you very far without a coherent and interesting story. |
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Kelvin Ma, Photographer, Assistant
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Boston | MA | | Posted: 4:55 PM on 02.23.11 |
->> I used to work for a convergence operation — shooting stills for a newspaper and shooting and cutting video packages for broadcast. Back then (5 years ago... seems like ages), that involved carrying two kits and was generally a PITA more than an innovative form of storytelling.
The advent of video-capable DSLRs has certainly made things easier from a technical standpoint, but what many newspaper editors fail to consider is the storytelling aspect of the medium. Too many papers out there think of video as merely something to tack on for the web — "While you're out there, why don't you get some video with that, too? "— not realizing that video has been used as a standalone medium for everything from the nightly news to documentary films for the better part of the last century. Not enough word people respect that fact (then again, not enough word editors respect pictures in general).
The importance of writing is the key lesson I learned from my time working in broadcast. Whether you're telling stories through video, images, audio or the written word, developing a coherent narrative — a beginning, middle and an end — is what is going to keep a viewer's eyes on your piece. In that sense, I gained a lot of respect for those TV reporters who could do that well and quickly so I wasn't going crazy trying to cut a package on deadline for the 5 p.m. show — newspaper folks, you have no idea what a deadline is until you've cut a package 5 seconds before airtime.
Cutting packages is a lot harder than most people unfamiliar with video or broadcast journalism realize. You have to shoot a lot more than you think to cover your cuts and avoid any continuity gaps — as Jeff Frings alluded to above by recommending you edit your own video. When it comes to constructing a longer narrative piece, I think my experience with video helped me grow immensely as a still photographer, especially since i was just starting out. |
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Garrett Hubbard, Photographer
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Washington | D.C. | USA | Posted: 6:27 PM on 02.24.11 |
->> Will,
Like David I had learned as much as I could from Rick Ray and PF Bentley @ Brooks. But it was like drinking from a fire hydrant :) I took in as much as I could in school and then learned by trial and failure at newspaper internships then my first job at a newspaper doing video in 2006. Now at USA TODAY, I continue to learn from my boss, Steve Elfers--great storyteller and great teacher.
You will be learning a whole new level of visual literacy--enjoy it! You may even come to love audio more than motion photography (video) as I have.
I have gained a whole new level of respect for TV shooters. They've been doing video storytelling for many many decades. There is much we can learn from them. I think you'd have a whole new appreciation for TV shooters if you look at the work of NPPA TV photographer's of the year Darren Durlach and Jonathan Malat. See also
It's great to have someone with whom you can work with on video as you learn basic things like sequencing, producing an interview, the finer points of editing, and the joys of exporting and transcoding.
I really learned a lot from the Advanced Storytelling Workshop. But this is definitely not for beginners. Maybe the workshop Jay Janner suggested above would be better. I would check out NPPA's Immersion workshop. Tons of great teachers there like my boss, other directors of video and shooters from the industry. Any chance you have to learn from Tom Kennedy, Scott Anger or Chad Stevens to name a few--jump on it!
enjoy the ride. |
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Will Powers, Photographer
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Denver | CO | USA | Posted: 4:52 PM on 02.25.11 |
| ->> FYI a new version of Final Cut Pro is about to be released |
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N. Scott Trimble, Photographer
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Lake Oswego | OR | USA | Posted: 5:26 PM on 02.25.11 |
->> In 2003 while working at the Arizona Republic, I went back to school at night and took motion picture and film courses. I learned more about cinema lighting in a 15 wk boot camp they had than I learned in nine years shooting at that time.
Since then, I applied what I learned into my news projects as well as the occasional motion picture work. |
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