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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
We won't pay you but we'll respect you!!!!
Juliann Tallino, Photographer
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Seattle | WA | USA | Posted: 3:54 PM on 02.16.11 |
->> New online sports site started by former Seattle PI staffers (www.sportspressnw.com) is looking for sports photographers with experience shooting Seattle area sports. They posted an ad on Craigslist (of course) http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/med/2212468459.html
These ads are a dime a dozen but this one stood out for me because of this part, I guess this is what you would call putting a spin on the old "no money but we'll give you credit" line.
"This is an unpaid position that will provide difficult to obtain experience and exposure for your work in an environment that counts on and respects photography. "
Counts on and respects photography, but not enough to actually pay you. Unfortunately they'll probably be overwhelmed with people wanting to shoot for them just to get on the sidelines, can't really blame them for asking for free photos when there are so many out there willing to work for credit and access. I just wish they would be honest and put "hobbyist photographers wanted" And what's the deal with difficult to obtain experience? There are tons of sporting events out there that you can shoot for experience, maybe the athletes aren't well known and the venue might be a bit smaller than a pro field but the game is played the same. Just a load of BS to make it sound like your getting something when all you get is used.
I sent an email asking them why there was no pay and if everyone else was working for free or just the photographers. Funny, they didn't respond. |
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Tami Chappell, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Atlanta | Ga | USA | Posted: 4:05 PM on 02.16.11 |
| ->> I keep telling myself..Tami, just keep your mouth shut, but....why should they be different than any other "sports wire/service/agency". They are a dime a dozen these days. Whats really disappointing is if they are indeed former newspaper photographers....sad. |
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Juliann Tallino, Photographer
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Seattle | WA | USA | Posted: 4:18 PM on 02.16.11 |
| ->> A bit different, it's not even spec shooting, it's just free shooting. The other "shoot for free" outlets might get you a couple of bucks for an image, eventually. |
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Eric Canha, Photographer
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Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 4:41 PM on 02.16.11 |
| ->> Wow makes working for $50 seem like a good deal.... And started by :::ahem:::: former journalists.... Can't wait to see THAT contract...... |
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Dan Routh, Photographer
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Greensboro | NC | USA | Posted: 5:21 PM on 02.16.11 |
| ->> So what's new. The Huffington Post generally doesn't pay for content and they just sold themselves for $315 million dollars. You would think that writers would figure out they are getting screwed. Working for free so someone else can make a profit on your work is not a good business model. |
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Juliann Tallino, Photographer
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Seattle | WA | USA | Posted: 5:39 PM on 02.16.11 |
->> Well just got a call from the gentleman who placed the ad, Very nice guy, tried to explain the no pay; new site, no money for photography. Says the ad was geared more towards college students trying to get images for their portfolios. I tried to explain that it's about good photos not pro photos when it comes to portfolios and I suggested he try and do a true internship with college credits through one of the many photo programs in the city. At least then the "intern" would receive college credit. But then again I have no idea how those are set up these days, maybe it's not as simple as it sounds.
I still can't agree with working for free, but I do give him props for calling me. I emailed him before I posted but I guess I didn't give him enough time to respond. He says he'll respond to all emails and inquiries, even the nasty ones. I was sorry to hear that some folks sent such nasty emails to the poor guy, no reason to be mean folks, you can disagree without getting nasty.
I've posted craigslist "free photos" ads before, this is the first time one of those posters actually called me to explain their side. He did say that 85% of the emails he received were from folks wanting the gig. I told him I wasn't surprised. :) |
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Stephen Brashear, Photographer, Assistant
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Seattle | WA | USA | Posted: 7:26 PM on 02.16.11 |
| ->> Tami - To clarify, Sports Press NW was not founded by former P-I photographers. It was founded by sports columnists and writers. Not that it makes free any easier to swallow. |
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TD Paulius, Photographer
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Orland Park | IL | USA | Posted: 7:51 PM on 02.16.11 |
| ->> Send the 64 year old guy their way. |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 8:01 PM on 02.16.11 |
->> This is just flat-out untrue: "...difficult to obtain experience and exposure..." ???
Neither experience nor exposure are difficult to obtain if you shoot for free.
--Mark |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 8:02 PM on 02.16.11 |
->> BTW, this is not "respect," it's pandering.
--Mark |
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Wesley R. Bush, Photographer
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Murfreesboro | TN | U.S. | Posted: 8:55 PM on 02.16.11 |
->> I'm about to give you all of my money
And all I'm askin' in return, honey
Is to give me my profits
When you get home (just a, just a, just a, just a)
Yeah baby (just a, just a, just a, just a)
When you get home (just a little bit)
Yeah (just a little bit)
R-E-S-P-E-C-T
Find out what it means to me
R-E-S-P-E-C-T
Take care, TCB |
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Mark J. Terrill, Photographer
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Simi Valley | CA | USA | Posted: 9:00 PM on 02.16.11 |
| ->> This sort of thing reminds me of a Saturday Night Live sketch that features cast members playing Barack Obama and Chinese president Hu Jintao. Hu says, "Aren't you going to kiss me first?" Obama--"I don't know what you mean."-- Hu bends over and says "I like to have someone kiss me BEFORE THEY DO SEX TO ME!!!!!" |
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Michael McNamara, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Phoenix | AZ | USA | Posted: 9:07 PM on 02.16.11 |
->> Funny. I've worked with a client for a couple years, and then this year they cut their rate in half. I asked why, and they said that they pay writers first, and that without the word content, they wouldn't have a publication. I kept my mouth shut, but wanted to say "if words were so important, you wouldn't have me photographing models in bikinis for your cover."
I'm not working for them anymore. |
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Doug Pizac, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 9:54 PM on 02.16.11 |
->> One section of the ad says they are a startup company and willing to take you with them.
I wonder if they would back that up with a percentage of the company as future compensation? If they don't make it, then no harm no foul. But if they go big, then you get paid down the line plus some. That would give the photographer the incentive to produce kick A$$ photos.
Juliann: When you talked to the rep was there any mention of rights? Do the photographers maintain control of their images and are photo credits done with a copyright notice? Or is there a rights grabbing contract where you not only don't get paid up front, but lose future income possibilities too? |
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Steven Limentani, Photographer
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Charlotte | NC | United States | Posted: 11:15 PM on 02.16.11 |
| ->> Recently was asked to shoot concerts locally for a national promoter, no pay and they have all of the rights. And oh by the way could I start in a few days. I was so stunned that I thought I was missing something! They are definitely out there. |
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David A. Cantor, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Toledo | OH | USA | Posted: 11:25 PM on 02.16.11 |
| ->> If you don't pay me, you don't respect me. As Bert would say, " 'nuff said ". |
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Juliann Tallino, Photographer
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Seattle | WA | USA | Posted: 11:33 PM on 02.16.11 |
->> Doug,
No rights grab, he also stated that he made sure that writers didn't grab random photos from the web. Writers are getting paid, just no pay for local photographers, but they do pay for a Getty subscription. |
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Louis Lopez, Photographer
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Fontana | CA | USA | Posted: 11:42 PM on 02.16.11 |
| ->> it's a Getty sandwich and we all gotta take a big bite... |
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Tami Chappell, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Atlanta | Ga | USA | Posted: 2:09 AM on 02.17.11 |
| ->> stephen thanks for clarifying...I'm just glad to hear its not photographers doing this to other photographers. |
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Doug Pizac, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 10:20 AM on 02.17.11 |
->> Tami...
Regarding photographers not doing this to other photographers, that's not the case.
I've given Mark Loundy for his Common Cents column a site run by professional photogs who hold a monthly contest whereupon the submission terms are all-rights grabbing and there's no prize other than a kudos. He's investigating. |
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