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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Photo Staff Training Exercises
Brad Tollefson, Student/Intern
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Aledo | TX | USA | Posted: 3:06 AM on 02.15.11 |
->> My editor and I lately have been coming across the problem that our photo staff hasn't been working up to its full potential, or just not going out of their way to make their pictures have that 'Wow!' factor. So we're considering implementing a weekly goal/technique for the staff to accomplish during their assignments or "wildart". For example have a week where they focus on leaving as much dead space as possible out of the photo, or finding the detail pictures from assignments, and so forth.
However, I've found myself blanking on additional items to train/test them on. (Not sure if it is because of my excess time spent at a desk editing, or studying for midterms.)
So, I am curious as to what techniques and concepts you would like to have your staff perform on a more regular basis.
Brad |
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Doug Pizac, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 7:15 AM on 02.15.11 |
->> Implementing a weekly goal? Isn't the goal to make publishable photos? If the image isn't worth publishing, reshoot it. Are the photographers paid for their work? Are you using seniors and juniors who have taken photo courses, or sophmore/freshmen who haven't been trained yet?
You say they leave dead space around the photo. Is that so the editors have room to crop or they don't have a long enough lens to fill the frame?
Who does the assignmnet editing, photo editing, cropping and layout at your school's paper? A photographer or editor with photo editing training or a word person who has had little or no training and does the page layout before seeing any of the images? Not having control over one's imagee or having a non-photo person be in charge of them can be demoralizing: what good is it to do a good job if it's going to be butchered anyway?
How photo friendly is your paper? Are images well played or do great pictures get no more than two columns -- the same as average ones?
These are all viable alternatives before publically announcing on a site like this the opinions of you and your editor about your paper's photographers. Not only does this sound like a personnel issue related to job performance, but you may have lessened morale by airing dirty laundry.
I looked at your student paper's website just now. The basketball shot is good, but appears under lensed. It could be much improved with tighter cropping thereby making it into a "wow" photo. Why didn't the desk editor do that? How many columns was it played in your print edition? And while there are couple other photos that could be better, there are some that are decent.
And there are some stories that could definitely use art, but there are only words. Who does the assigning? A word person who may not even think visually or a "photo" editor? I personally see a lot of potential for a dynamic portrait photo to illustrate the story about a professor receiving a grant for the psychology/neuro department. Was there an assignment put in for that? If not, who's fault is that? The editor or the photographer who didn't know anything about the story until it was in print?
And what do you mean by having the "wow" factor? Do you have professors who teach that? If not, maybe it is their fault and not the photographers?
Are these options, or are your shooters simply lazy? |
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Mark Peters, Photographer
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Highland | IL | USA | Posted: 8:28 AM on 02.15.11 |
| ->> I'm curious. If you - as the photoeditor (and de facto coach) - are struggling to come up with more than two or three concepts, why are you surprised that your (presumably less trained) staff is having a hard time doing the same? |
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Jason Joseph, Photographer
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Dublin | OH | USA | Posted: 8:44 AM on 02.15.11 |
| ->> I have to agree with Mark on this. I am all for providing training opportunities for my staff. But if I felt like they needed to have training and I couldn't think of what they needed trained on, then I would have to wonder if I was missing something. It just seems to me that if they really need trained, then I would know right away what they needed trained on based on observations that I would have made. Brad, it sounds like you need to take a step back and look at the situation from the perspective of, "Am I doing everything I can to provide my staff with everything they need to make 'Wow" photos." And I'm not just talking about gear, I am also referring to communications, creative openness and being open to receiving and giving constructive feedback with your staff. |
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Doug Pizac, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 8:57 AM on 02.15.11 |
->> FYI, please don't answer my question on if your staff is lazy. That was meant as a rhetorical question.
But I am interested in how much photo play your paper gives and who is in charge of layout. The photo editor or the word editors? And who decides which stories are to be illustrated? The photo editor or the word editors?
Also, what say do the photographers have in how their pictures are cropped and used? If none, that may be your problem. They may be beating their heads against the wall feeling helpless and therefore no longer care since there's no hope. I know that is the case at many mainstream dailies from the photographers I've talked to over the years. They shoot and turn in great photos only to have the lesser one used because it fits the pre-made hole. After a while what's the use in making wow photos when all that ultimately matters is what fits?
The working environment set by management plays a major key role in whether the staff -- photographers or reporters -- go the extra mile or just tread water. |
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Amy Wallot, Photographer
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Frankfort | KY | USA | Posted: 9:23 AM on 02.15.11 |
| ->> Brad, have you thought about getting a mentor for your staff? Maybe someone at a local paper would be willing to come in a couple of times a month and work with photogs. Also, young, inexperienced shooters often simply don’t know what good photography is. They are used to their parents and friends telling them how nice their photos are. They are not used to comparing their work to professional standards. They may simply need exposure to quality, student photojournalism. Are you providing that? Is there a state photo or student press organization? If so, I would encourage all of your staff to attend their events. Have fun with it. Maybe have a staff shoot-out to get open critique flowing. Or a photo night/meet up with photo students from another university. Good luck!! |
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George Bridges, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | USA | Posted: 10:04 AM on 02.15.11 |
->> Brad,
You're not too far from DFW so you have some talented shooters to call upon in that area to come speak to the staff or serve as mentors.
But, if the drive to Dallas is not too far, I would send some of your staffers to the Photos Do No Bend (PDNB) gallery to see the Neil Leifer exhibit that runs through March.
I know it's not a short drive, but checking out those images will either inspire the staff or make them want to quit the business because they are so humbled by the work :-) |
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Brian Hollingsworth, Photographer
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Austin | TX | USA | Posted: 10:50 AM on 02.15.11 |
->> I bet the basics just need to be reinforced. Requiring that everyone brings back a wide/medium/detail shot will go a long way to getting your staff to look for more interesting or different photos.
In your meetings do you go over the best photos of the week and why they work? Use the best wire photos as examples too. Talk about them. Talk about how you could make them work with the subjects you cover.
Do you have time to brainstorm ideas with your staff as assignments are given out? Help them see a different way to approach the shoots.
And really push light. It's one of the easiest ways to get the "wow" you're looking for. One of the best days of photo we ever had at our student paper was when we were told to go shoot "wild art" during the golden hour. We were energized by the challenge of the short deadline and by shooting during a time when most of us were usually back in the office delivering our shots from earlier in the day. Those photos had pop.
I know these are basic, but sometimes that's the best place to start. |
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Brad Tollefson, Student/Intern
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Aledo | TX | USA | Posted: 2:00 PM on 02.15.11 |
->> Doug,
In general our staff takes up both sides of the spectrum with little in between. We have three members who will be graduating in the spring/summer. Leaving one senior, two juniors, and two sophomores causing the space to likely be filled by freshmen in the coming fall semester. Most of us are studying subjects other than photography/journalism. (I myself am mechanical engineering.)
All of the photo editing is done by the photographers themselves with minor tweaks on things like contrast done by the papers photo editor. Page layouts are done by page designers who typically leave crops and everything as is, unless doing cutouts or it’s necessary to fit better on the page. Assignments are made by the reporters who include details of what the topic of the story is, if it’s an illustration, town hall meeting, sport, etc.
I find that we have a pretty photo friendly paper. The better photos will run 3-4 columns (sometimes more) and the average photos will run around 2 columns.
It’s not that I’m trying to air dirty laundry. I’m just hoping to gain perspective on what other members from this community would like to see papers do better photo wise. Then, using your ideas to I hope to improve the quality of the staff as a whole, since we’ll be losing some of our better members relatively soon.
In regards to a “wow” factor I was just referring to the thought that a photo is really good picture, one that you would put inside of your portfolio.
Mark and Jason,
I’ll apologize, in my goal to be concise I neglected to mention that I do already have a list of about a dozen or so items I would like to have them focus one each week. The reason I stated filling the space of a photo was because it was on my mind at the time of writing it. My list includes two categories. Composition: leading lines, framing, detail pictures, rule of thirds, filling space, etc. and Techniques: panning sports, fill flash, portraits, depth-of-field, etc.
We have weekly meetings where we do a photo critique where we discuss the pros and cons everybody’s pictures. Just at times it doesn’t seem to sink in as we tend to discuss the same thing of how images can be improved.
Amy,
We had a ‘mentor’ for about 40 years who was our staff photo advisor. He just retired about a year ago. So as filler, the senior members available to question (pester) about ideas and concepts, or how they feel about something.
George,
Neil Leifer’s For the Love of the Game Exhibition at PDNB is a great example of the different angles and concepts that I know the staff could produce if they put in the time and effort.
Brian,
I agree, it is mainly just basics that I’m wanting reinforced as I know they can jump past it once in the mind set.
Occasionally, there is time to plan something ahead of time for a shoot (especially if it’s a portrait). However, usually it will consist of the photographer knowing what the assignment is and the story is about and they will come back with something from it.
Brad |
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Doug Pizac, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 4:42 PM on 02.15.11 |
->> Thanks for your detailed responses to all of us. They explain a lot.
In some of the things you said, I see weak points that could be improved; if I may suggest a few solutions. This is based on 30+ years working with college students and their publications. Just like one's portfolio is only as strong as its weakest picture, a workflow is only as strong as its weakest link.
It's good that the photographers do their own editing and cropping. But they need to be more ruthless in their crops based on the basketball photo on your web page today. It is a good photo but is way too loose. Unless the background is essential to telling the story or you need some wiggle room when doing layouts, crop tighter.
As to running loose photos as you say you have been doing, that should have been corrected by the layout people. That type fault belongs on their shoulders since part of design is taking the mundane and turning it into wow. But having the photographers do better cropping in the future will eliminate this weak link.
Another weakness -- and a big one -- is having the reporters do the photo assigning. Writers are word people; photographers think visually. When making photo assignments that will result in good imagery there are three parts to the process. First, the reporters don't assign; they request. Second, it is the photo editor that assigns based on the visual merit of the story. And third, the photo editor needs to be part of the story idea approval process instead of relying on the reporter to make a request.
Remember, writers think in terms of words and story line, not photos, which means the art is nearly always an after thought. And there will be times when the reporter sees no visual for his/her story, but the photo editor and/or photographer will. If the photo editor doesn't have a chance to see what the writers are proposing before they start working on the story, then the photo department will always be behind the curve instead of ahead of it. Getting the visual side involved from the very start will get you those wow photos you're looking for.
And once the reporters start seeing their mundane story on the front page because it was a wow photo that elevated the package, they'll start bouncing their ideas off the photographers before submitting them to their editor for go-ahead approval. The result is improved teamwork which will result in improved photography which will result in better layouts which will result in a better paper, and so on.
In a nutshell, make your photo side proactive (helping create the assignments) versus reactive (waiting for the assignments). The photographers will become better and the writers will advance themselves too when they see the rewards.
One final suggestion: get a copy of Joe McNally's "The Moment It Clicks" book as a handy reference guide to keep around. I also teach and use it as a textbook to show what can be done with proactive thinking. It not only talks about what makes a good image, but explains how it was done; and has inspired many of my students to push themselves and go for the wow images you talk about. |
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Robby Milo, Student/Intern
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Boise | ID | USA | Posted: 9:31 PM on 02.15.11 |
->> Brad - Thank you for this post. I just started out as photo editor for my school's paper and there is a ton in here that will help me.
Doug - I've ran into almost all those problems you touched on in this semester, especially the writers requesting the photos. This seems to have been the system used for years and I (hopefully) can make some progress with that over time.
I also have run into the problem of having the photos cropped/toned/cut out after my end of the process, which seems to really have poor reinforcement on my photogs. This is just another thing that will take time to change.
Good luck, and I'd love to know how you progress through the semester.
-Robby |
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Doug Pizac, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 11:48 PM on 02.15.11 |
->> Brad...
Good luck. But don't make progress over time. The best time to strike proactively is at the start before procedures get set in stone and it becomes an upward battle to change. Get the assignment workflow established at the beginning.
FYI, the system hasn't been used for years. It has been going on for decades. That's because editors and upper management were originally reporters -- word people. Photographers are at a disadvantage because they stick with what they love and move up to photo editors or directors of photography who report to word people and the ingrained mentality. (mentality meaning primarily word oriented) The only high ranking super manager I know of who started out as a photographer is Chris Johns at National Geographic where he is the editor in chief. There are a few assistant managing editors with photo backgrounds, but again, they report to higher ups that are word people.
So don't get discouraged if you run into resistance because you're going against the long established norm. But whatever gains you can achieve will be worth it. |
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Doug Pizac, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | USA | Posted: 11:53 PM on 02.15.11 |
| ->> Aaaugh. Previous post meant for Robby, not Brad. |
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