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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
New pro series from Nikon
Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 3:20 PM on 01.12.11 |
->> I have it on very, very good authority that Nikon is planning release of a new pro DSLR model in the 2nd half of 2011, "...in advance of the London Olympics". I don't think it's an upgraded D3s, but a new model. Price is estimated in the $5000 range. Lenses are also going to be overhauled and improved to coincide with the new body. It may well be an upgrade for the D3s, but my source's impression was that it will be a completely new model; that was the impression given from Nikon. No specs were leaked.
Also, for the consumer line, they are planning a series of mirrorless DSLRs priced in the under-$1,000 range. |
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Michael Chang, Photographer
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Robertsdale | AL | USA | Posted: 5:17 PM on 01.12.11 |
| ->> D4? I imagined that something would come out before the Olympics. Curious what it is. |
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Michael Johnson, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Geneseo | NY | USA | Posted: 5:23 PM on 01.12.11 |
| ->> 2011 is on pace for the normal 4 year roll out for Nikon. Figure the D4 is due out arounf Oct/Nov. |
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Ray Anderson, Photographer
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San Francisco | CA | USA | Posted: 5:59 PM on 01.12.11 |
->> Great another excuse to reap in large profits by no longer making parts in the future for the lens you paid 10 grand for a few years ago.
I am sick and tied of Nikon and Canon with their new lens upgrades that gives them the excuse to no longer to service their older lens.
I am waiting for Nikon or Canon to commit to service any lens they sell for the life time of the owner if the lens cost more than 5,000.00 dollars.
Who ever does this will have my business for the rest of my life. |
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Ed Wolfstein, Photographer, Assistant
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Burlington | VT | USA | Posted: 9:39 AM on 01.13.11 |
->> I read a rumor a while back that Nikon was working on a DSLR design with interchangeable image sensors; a modular approach that would allow upgrades without having to replace the whole body every time a new/better chip was developed. Kinda' like when a new film would come out...
Cheers! |
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Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 11:55 AM on 01.13.11 |
->> Hey Ray, does your Car manufacturer still makes parts for your older model, like 10 year old Model??? Doubt it!! Same goes for Canon and Nikon, I hate it, but.... It goes with the times!! BTW, Nikon still has parts for D1's in the US!
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Jeff Stanton, Photographer
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Princeton | IN | USA | Posted: 12:06 PM on 01.13.11 |
->> Ed, that rumor sounds like more wishful thinking than anything else.
Ray, that's some of the best bitching I've read on here in a long time. It would be great if they continued to service what they sell for a minimum amount of time, but I imagine they feel there is no money to be made going that route, which is the one they have apparently adopted.
I got my 80-200 2.8 AFS serviced by Nikon last year and they had the parts necessary for the repair. I don't expect that to last much longer. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 1:39 PM on 01.13.11 |
| ->> Yamil, that is one of he worst analogies ever....you can readily buy parts for cars that are 50 years old...but you can't get a lens (both canon and nikon) over six years old repaired by them. the funny thing is these damn lenses cost MORE than most cars did back in the 60's....the other point is you don't usually hear about the two "superpowers" not fixing the cameras....the complaint is about the super telephotos not being repairable. |
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Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 3:37 PM on 01.13.11 |
->> Chuck, I don't know, but I haven't seen any Chevy dealer that stocks 57 Chevy parts, Fenders, Bumpers or Engine parts, maybe that is a NC thing!!
I know what the complaint is and I understand it, I don't agree with it, but I have learned to live with it!! |
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Jeroen de Jong, Photographer
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Waalwijk | _ | Netherlands | Posted: 3:43 PM on 01.13.11 |
->> @Yamil Sued
Overhere in Europe, car manufacturers are by law forced to suply new spare-parts for 10 years after the last production of a model.
But on topic, I'm curious what they can improve. The Nikon's now on the market are great. I shoot Canon and I belive Nikon has the advantage at the moment.
It is that switching will be to expensive for me... |
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Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 4:48 PM on 01.13.11 |
->> Things in Europe are different!!
Lenses and Bodies have Two Year Warranty, mandatory!!
Here in the US it's One Year on Bodies and Lenses and Five on Lenses with Nikon if you register them within Ten Days of Purchase.
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Neil Turner, Photographer
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Bournemouth | UK | United Kingdom | Posted: 7:15 AM on 01.14.11 |
->> The length of a warranty offered by a manufacturer in Europe is their choice. Whilst most offer one or two years the customer has, by law, "a legitimate expectation that the goods are of merchantable quality and that they will last for a reasonable length of time". This wonderfully vague wording means that no matter what warranty is offered, anyone purchasing a piece of technology or equipment can go back to the seller if the item goes wrong during a time period that most people would regard as reasonable and, of course, the item has not been abused.
To put this into perspective, there are many cases where Apple (standard one year warranty) have replaced parts on laptops up to two years old where that part should have lasted longer (mother boards, keyboards, power supplies) free of charge. Canon have also interpreted the law generously. The case is even stronger when there are known issues. Samsung televisions have had a fault with their tuners and they have replaced faulty parts up to three years after purchase (two years after the warranty ran out). |
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Eric Canha, Photographer
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Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 8:13 AM on 01.14.11 |
->> Chuck the key to getting parts for those 50 year old cars is the aftermarket supply channels. In 2008 my wife's 1998 Taurus needed a filler neck. Ford no longer made the part and neither did the aftermarket manufacturers. It took 2 weeks hunting bone yards before we found one in WA. The car was about to become much like your 400, scrap.
In 2004 I needed to replace a part on my 1997 Ram 1500. Same as above had to turn to bone yards as neither the original manufacturer nor the aftermarket suppliers made the part.
I had the same issue with a boiler. The manufacturer was not casting the sections any longer and just like that I had 600# of scrap cast iron in my basement.
I understand where you are coming from. I bought a brandy new 300 vr I six months before Nikon came out with the vr II so I know that the clock is running for me. I also know that for a manufacturer to keep tooling and material active for items 5 or 10 years out of production is more than excessively expensive. There just isn't enough of a demand for 3rd parties to take up making those parts like there is in making car parts.
When we have a car that no longer works most people either sell it to the scrap yard for $100 or pay the yard to come get it. That puts the viable parts back into the repair stream. Most if not all photographers who have a broken lens stuff it into a closet and as a result ferret away a complete laundry list of good parts that could be harvested in the hopes that some day that 15 year old piece of gear might get repaired.
Maybe if we scrapped our gear to photo bone yards as willingly as we do cars we would all have better luck finding NLA parts when the need hit.
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Keith Coward, Photographer
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David Harpe, Photographer
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Denver | CO | USA | Posted: 10:14 AM on 01.14.11 |
->> Simple math gives you an idea of why can't get service on older gear...and shouldn't expect the manufacturer to do so.
Let's say a 300/2.8 has a total of 200 parts (screws, lens elements, etc.). The cost of those parts is probably a little less than half the retail price, so around $2,000.
So how many parts kits should you stock to handle 5 years of service? 100? 500? 50? At the low end you're talking $100,000 worth of parts sitting on the shelf...at the high end a million bucks. Per lens. That's a non-trivial amount of money, and you have to do it for each and every lens variant. Sure there are ways to trim that cost - stock more of the commonly used up smaller parts like screws, less of interior lens elements...but it still represents a significant cost in raw material just sitting on the shelf. There are costs associated with storing and tracking the inventory, maintaining service documentation and item-specific tools such as assembly and testing jigs, keeping technicians trained, maintaining the testing software, etc. It's a big investment. When you have dozens of products on the market, it's a HUGE investment. You have to draw the line somewhere, otherwise your service operation becomes more costly than your development operation and you're dead in the water.
I think 5 years on a big lens is a pretty reasonable window - then you're on your own in the aftermarket world. |
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Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 2:13 PM on 01.15.11 |
->> David said:
"I think 5 years on a big lens is a pretty reasonable window - then you're on your own in the aftermarket world."
I would say, in the US where companies like Nikon offer a Five Year Warranty, they should keep parts in stock and service items for Five years after the Model is discontinued, after that, like you said, you are on your own...
I don't know what companies like Canon would do in this situation because they only offer a One Year Warranty on all Lenses.
The example Eric used, of the 300VR is one of those strange situations, the VRI and the VRII are very similar to each other and I think the major difference is the VR System alone, so I would think that parts for the VRI are going to be available for longer than some other models.
I'm using a 70-200 VRI AF-S and a 28-70 AF-S that belong to the company I shoot for now, I'm going to send them to NPS for a Clean and Check ASAP before they run out of parts. |
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Ray Anderson, Photographer
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San Francisco | CA | USA | Posted: 8:18 AM on 01.18.11 |
->> On a lens that cost 5M or more Canon and Nikon should stock the most common parts that break, like the $200.00 collar that connects the lens to the camera body or the motor that drives the auto focus.
The motors are designed so you cannot rebuild them. I can rebuild the starter, engine, brakes etc on my 20 year old car.
Bottom line I am talking about customer service I am tired about how wonderful the latest new and improved lens is when there is no reason to update.
We complain about the photographers that cost us all money because they give away their photos,we complain about editors that want to low ball us.But how many of us complain about what Nikon and Canon are doing to us when they refuse to service our 400 2.8 or 600 lens because they no longer stock parts for them.
A 400 2.8 or 600 lens is a major 8,000.00 plus investment at the very least as professionals we should demand that both Nikon and Canon service these high dollar lenses for a longer period of time and when possible use the same motors and collars and other parts when making a new better than the last model lens.I am not asking they supply me the parts for free I am asking that they stock the parts that commonly go out on these high dollar lens to keep them working instead of going to the land fill.
Or better yet build take enough pride in your product to build it to last as long as possible.
I have a rolleiflex TLR built in 1953 that I can have rebuilt because rolleiflex developed a product improved on it and continued to make the same product with the same parts for 50 years.
I have a 4x5 speed graflex that is 40 years old that I can also have rebuilt from the ground up.
I am not asking Nikon and Canon do do this with their bodies but at the very least they should do it for any lens that will sell for over 5 grand.
I have a Sinar 8x10 large format camera that is over 30 years old that I could send in to Sinar tomorrow and have them rebuild it from the ground up something I will never have to do because they built it to last to begin with.
We should expect no less from the 400 2.8 and 600 f4 lens. |
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Butch Miller, Photographer
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Lock Haven | PA | USA | Posted: 10:29 AM on 01.18.11 |
->> I think we will see a point soon where droves of shooters will not be updating to latest and greatest as soon as new products are released ... similar to how it was in the film days where you pounded bodies and lenses for years because there was no real need to upgrade because the feature sets were not so greatly improved between offerings that necessitated making the move to stay competitive ...
Even now we are seeing far more longevity with DSLR's that wasn't there just a few short years ago ...
In light of many publications pursuing, or at least investigating, a digital delivery system ... many of us won't have use for more MP's, higher ISO performance, AF performance and higher resolving capabilities of optics of more than what is already available ... then we may see fewer innovations in design over the same period of time in lenses as well where we can really get our money's worth from the investment in lenses that the manufacturers will be more inclined to service and support their wares for longer periods ...
It's getting more and more difficult with each passing year to justify the investment of $8,000-$10,000 for long glass just to use for field sports ... especially considering it has a "Use by" date built in to the plan.
At least that is my hope that this will all level off to a more reasonable system of support over the long haul ... |
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Matt Cohen, Photographer
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Oakland | CA | USA | Posted: 4:32 PM on 01.18.11 |
->> i've had my 400 (original AFS version) repaired by Nikon twice in the last two years with no problems. i bought it used, but the lens model dates to 1998...
i did have to wait 2 months for screw assemblies for the hood. |
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 4:32 PM on 01.20.11 |
->> More details coming on the D4;
Higher burst-mode rate (10+)
Increased ISO
Increased resolution, probably 16megs.
The big improvement will be a huge advance in the AD converter called ASIC that features major increases in speed and lower noise.
Plus, a higher price than the D3. |
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Ron Erdrich, Photographer
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Abilene | TX | USA | Posted: 1:42 AM on 01.31.11 |
| ->> Let's hope they put a dedicated audio monitoring setup in the new camera. |
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Joe Lorenzini, Photographer
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Flower Mound (DFW) | TX | USA | Posted: 1:22 PM on 01.31.11 |
| ->> Would REALLY like to see CLS integrated somehow... |
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