| Sign in: |
| Members log in here with your user name and password to access the your admin page and other special features. |
|
|
|
|
|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Fluorescent lights a good alternative to expensive strobes?
Jeff Lack, Photographer
 |
Midlothian | VA | USA | Posted: 4:50 PM on 12.07.10 |
| ->> I've been asked to do portraits and was wondering about home studio lighting. I assume the best option would be strobe lights with a minimum wattage of 2000w/s. However, these are very expensive and I was wondering if continuous Fluorescent lighting would be a good alternative? |
|
Dan Routh, Photographer
|
Greensboro | NC | USA | Posted: 5:30 PM on 12.07.10 |
->> You do not need anything close to 2000watt/sec for portraiture, in fact you can get by with mono lights in the 200-400 w/s range easily, and there are several manufacturers of those. A set of AlienBees would certainly work, and they are not super expensive. You can of course use portable strobe, albeit you won't have model lights. My experience with fluorescent lighting is that while you have wysiwyg, in order to get units that have enough power, you will end up spending as much or more as the more expensive strobe units. I think you will find for a budget, you will get more bang for your buck and more usability with strobes. There are new LED lighting units available that are better than fluorescent ones, but they are quite pricey.
With the advent of digital cameras with higher useable ISOs, the days of huge strobe packs are gone. I have 2 1200w/s Profoto packs and for a lot of jobs, I can't turn them down low enough. Generally, large format images with a lot of depth of field require lots of power. Digital images with narrow depth of field like portraits don't. I remember when we shot studio tabletops on 8x10 stopped down to f45 with a lot of bellows extension and used multiple 4800w/s packs and still had to do 15-20 pops to get a usable exposure. |
|
Thomas E. Witte, Photographer, Photo Editor
|
Cincinnati | OH | USA | Posted: 5:43 PM on 12.07.10 |
->> 2000Ws is just fine for home studio portraits...
...If you're also going to be doubling as a tanning salon.
For something small like this you're looking for something more around 400Ws. That being said, I do use my DL M2000's in small rooms (closets even) but they're often dialed back to the minimum setting and compensated even lower. The main reason I have them is for lighting arenas which is what something in that power range is meant for. It just so happens they're versatile enough to do both.
Properly used DL 400jr's can easily light anything up to most division II arenas (some dungeon Division I) so unless you know you're going to be needing to light something larger than that on a regular basis, save your pennies and go for something small and compact and spend your savings on some bitchin' light modifiers. |
|
Thomas E. Witte, Photographer, Photo Editor
|
Cincinnati | OH | USA | Posted: 5:50 PM on 12.07.10 |
->> FWIW, for giggles one time I set up all four 4080SPs in my living room with the long throw reflectors on and plugged in the 2000 Watt packs. I stood about 10 feet away and popped one off and I to this day think I burned off the top layer of all my skin that was exposed.
Couple that with the small shockwave that I felt and it gave me a small glimpse of what WWIII is going to feel like. |
|
Robin Loznak, Photographer, Photo Editor
|
Roseburg | OR | USA | Posted: 5:51 PM on 12.07.10 |
| ->> All you really need are a couple of speedlignts, light modification, and a remote firing ability. Check out http://strobist.blogspot.com/ for inspiration. I have both an AlienBees kit and a "strobist" kit. I mix and match depending on the situation. |
|
Dan Routh, Photographer
|
Greensboro | NC | USA | Posted: 5:58 PM on 12.07.10 |
| ->> Brings back memories of Ascor Sun Guns. Huge strobe heads that fired at really fast durations. There was a huge 220v control unit (tubes?) and then you stacked huge 400w/s individual capacitors and connected them in series to build up power. When we fired them they made a huge racket and shook the metal conduit all over the building. |
|
Dan Powers, Photographer
|
Appleton | WI | USA | Posted: 6:01 PM on 12.07.10 |
| ->> If you check the classified section, we have some Dynalite 400jr kits for sale. Drop me a line if you're interested. |
|
Andrew Brosig, Photo Editor, Photographer
|
Killeen | TX | United States | Posted: 6:10 PM on 12.07.10 |
->> I'll echo what Robin said. For 90 percent of the work I do, I use my Strobist kit, consisting of from one to four Nikon SB-28 strobes with either pocket wizard or optical triggers and umbrellas. I can carry my entire "studio" in a small tool bag I got from Lowe's for $25, including the PWs, cords, opticals, filters and grids. I like the portability and it's fast to set up and tear down.
Another alternative is to go to a home improvement store, find the fluorescent light strips/banks and build your own big-a** strip lighting set up. It shouldn't be too pricey (depending on your budget) and would work for most studio applications. Probably more bang for the buck, power-to-cash-ratio wise, than a comparable "photo" fluorescent lighting kit, too. |
|
Jim Colburn, Photo Editor, Photographer
|
McAllen | TX | USA | Posted: 6:33 PM on 12.07.10 |
| ->> A couple of Alien Bee 800 units (320 watt/sec each) would be a good starter kit and you can get them (with stands, reflectors and umbrellas) for around $720. |
|
Chris Large, Photographer
|
Okotoks | AB | Canada | Posted: 1:44 AM on 12.08.10 |
->> I shoot with kino flow (professional movie fluorescents) all the time because that's what the DOP is using to light his scene. They have no where near the output of even a 250-400 watt/sec strobe, are way harder to control - big soft source only ( no way to easily use them as a hair light or sharp rim ) - but if that's what's on set then I have to go with it.
But when I'm doing my gallery or set ups and I have access to every light on the truck - from 20k HMI, 20 sets of kino flows, to 1k redheads......I pull out my set of 5 dynalites and shoot with them every single time. Any hotlights are a pain for the talent, expensive and more trouble than they are worth.
Invest in a small set of strobes, expand as you can afford and stay away from florescent. |
|
Guy Rhodes, Photographer
 |
East Chicago | IN | USA | Posted: 2:31 AM on 12.08.10 |
->> Most off-the-shelf fluorescent lights don't have the CRI necessary to render your subject in a flattering light (pun totally intended).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_rendering_index
CRI refers to how much of the visible spectrum a lamp can reproduce, measured on a scale from 0 to 100, with 100 being the fullest spectrum present. Most florescent lights from the hardware store fall between 75-80 on the CRI scale, whereas a tungsten lamp usually reads near 100.
Ever wonder why skin tones look terribly pasty and flat when you're shooting under mercury vapor lamps in a gym, or under florescent lights in an office? It's because the lamps are missing chunks of the the warm parts of the spectrum necessary to render your subject's skin tones in a natural way.
http://www.kinoflo.com/Kino%20Flo%20lamps/True%20Match/True%20Match.htm
Kino Flo fluorescent lamps (usually around 95 CRI) are specially formulated for use on camera and put out far more of the spectrum than a typical hardware store fluorescent, but at a higher price. The really expensive part of the Kino Flo system are the special ballasts that drive the lamps at a higher frequency, allowing the lamps to be free of the dreaded color cycling of a typical florescent lamp. Here's a thread I started a few years ago illustrating color cycling: http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=20873
You'll also experience this color cycling with off-the-shelf florescent lamps / ballasts in your home studio if you shoot at any shutter speed above 1/125th.
As others have recommended, save yourself the trouble and invest in some strobes. |
|
Brian Dowling, Photographer
|
Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 3:45 AM on 12.08.10 |
->> 3 Vivitars flashes + stands + 2 umbrellas + a couple modifiers(Roscoe gels are a buck) should be under $350 and pretty much all you need when starting out.
That's what I used for this shot three years when I was just starting out. Its an amazing photo, but it is the first time I pulled up an image on my computer and thought wow, I could be a photographer.
http://dowlingphotography.com/portfolio_images/People/brian_dowling_people0... |
|
Brian Dowling, Photographer
|
Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 3:45 AM on 12.08.10 |
| ->> lol I meant to put "it's not an amazing photo" =] |
|
Philip Johnson, Photographer
|
Garland | TX | USA | Posted: 9:12 AM on 12.08.10 |
| ->> As Brian is suggesting you can get by with just some shoe mount flashes. Check the Strobist website or look at the books by Joe McNally. |
|
Wesley R. Bush, Photographer
 |
Murfreesboro | TN | U.S. | Posted: 9:30 AM on 12.08.10 |
| ->> I've just got two Alien Bee 1600s, and I wish I had gotten the 800s, or even 400s. Even dialed all the way down, they're too powerful for portraits in small rooms. It seems like I'm always trying to cover the umbrellas in sheets to bring the levels down. Extra power is probably good when I need it, but when I don't (which is more often than when I do), I feel like I spent extra money to make a job more difficult. |
|
Michael Granse, Photographer
|
Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 10:18 AM on 12.08.10 |
->> Wesley, I have the White Lightning X1600's and they have a 1/4 power button that comes in quite handy in such situations. This allows you to adjust from full power down to 1/128 power or 8 f-stops if you prefer to look at it that way. I shoot portraits in small rooms and ice hockey in arenas with these strobes, and the 1/4 power button is GREAT for the shooting conditions that you described.
Give the people at Paul C Buff a call. You might still be able to upgrade from the AB1600's to the White Lightning X1600's for the difference in cost depending on how long you have had the lights.
If that fails, you could easily sell these and be not too far from being able to get the X1600's. |
|
Eric Canha, Photographer
|
Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 10:23 AM on 12.08.10 |
| ->> Wesley if you can't trade the AB's you may want to consider buying a few sheets of Rosco ND gels. |
|
Joe Morahan, Photographer
|
Denver | Co | USA | Posted: 10:30 AM on 12.08.10 |
->> not sure if this will help, and it seems that you have been offered plenty of great advice, however I used worklights for the fist few years I was lighting subjects. They are cheap, durable, and can do whatever I need them to do. Here is the link to the lights:
http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-Electrical-Tools-Accessories-Work-Light...
You will need to change your light temperature to 3200, and the white balance will be all set, and a full set up might only run you $50-$75. |
|
Joe Morahan, Photographer
|
Greg Foster, Photographer
|
Atlanta | GA | | Posted: 10:45 AM on 12.08.10 |
->> Jeff, lower power strobes are great in small rooms and similar areas where the ambient light is under control, but if you think you might ever want to shoot outside in full sunlight using light modifiers (such as a big softbox) and be able to make the sun do what you want it to do as far as how it affects the lighting on your subject (and your background), you will need a little more power.
Just a little something more to think about if you are about to invest in a lighting system... |
|
Geoff Miller, Photographer
|
Dan Routh, Photographer
|
Greensboro | NC | USA | Posted: 2:04 PM on 12.08.10 |
->> Geoff,
Don't know if the Ascors were up to those, but if I remember correctly, you could keep stacking capacitors (800w/s ea.) up to the max on the head which was 40,000w/s and dump a single pop with a 1/5000 sec duration. Lots of light really fast. The cables that tied the capacitors together were about 1 1/2-2 inches thick. There was also a terminator at the end which I think if you left it off would allow a lot of juice to arc out. All in all, the equipment was not designed for the feint of heart. |
|
Mick Motor, Photographer
|
Honolulu | Hawaii | USA | Posted: 3:02 AM on 12.09.10 |
| ->> All light is good light. Use what fits your style and taste. |
|
Wally Nell, Photographer
 |
CAIRO | EG | EGYPT | Posted: 5:07 AM on 12.09.10 |
->> I remember those Ascors, a friend introduced me to it in the 90's. Made my heart stop when he tripped the shutter the first time...
With regards to strobes... I think you have received some good advice.
Get as much power as you can afford. Most of the time you will probably not need all that power, but there will come a day (or many more if you plan it right), where you will need the extra power. If you wanted to do a portrait with one person filling the frame in the foreground and another person far-off in the distance in juxtaposition and you want both of them sharp, you will need a very small f-stop and therefore much more power. And if you ever want to shoot outdoors, you will need all the power you can get.
Speedlights work fine, but at the price of multiple Speedlights, you may as well invest in proper strobes. Speedlights also do not recycle fast, so unless you have battery packs to keep them recycling fast, you will start losing momentum in your shooting after 12 or 13 shots when recycle times slow down to 10 seconds or perhaps even more. Speedlights will give you enough power for shooting outdoors, but each has its own pros and cons.
I don't think you need 2000w/s unless you want to light an indoor arena or something. 500w/s to 1000w/s should give you enough. Using a large softbox outside, 1000w/s will give you just over f22 at 100ISO, depending on how far you place your subject from the lightsource. There are obviously many variables, but I have never needed more than about 1000w/s outdoors. Having said that, I wanted more at times, for the sake of distance from the subject; but I have always managed with 1000w/s.
Indoors, you can make do with up to 500w/s, easily.
My 10 piastres... |
|
Jeff Lack, Photographer
|
Midlothian | VA | USA | Posted: 10:28 AM on 12.09.10 |
| ->> Thanks everyone for your comments! This has been very helpful and it seems like I have some decisions to make. I appreciate all the great advice. |
|
Scott Evans, Photographer
|
Bay Village | OH | USA | Posted: 10:53 AM on 12.09.10 |
| ->> Jeff, no new info but I'll add another vote for the strobist approach for your needs right now. I think you'd be surprised at the results you can achieve for how cost effective it is. You might even find yourself using this setup more and more often for location work since its so portable and doesn't require a power source beyond AA's. |
|
Return to --> Message Board Main Index
|