| Sign in: |
| Members log in here with your user name and password to access the your admin page and other special features. |
|
|
|
|
|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Nikon gets an F rating from the Better Business Bureau
Matthew Hinton, Photographer, Assistant
 |
New Orleans | LA | USA | Posted: 3:56 PM on 11.24.10 |
->> For those of you considering buying camera equipment this holiday season.
Consider this
http://www.la.bbb.org/Business-Report/Nikon-Inc-25750
"Company Rating F
Our opinion of what this rating means:
We strongly question the company’s reliability for reasons such as that they have failed to respond to complaints, their advertising is grossly misleading, they are not in compliance with the law’s licensing or registration requirements, their complaints contain especially serious allegations, or the company’s industry is known for its fraudulent business practices. "
"Our complaint history for this company shows that the company responded to and gave proper consideration to most complaints. However, one or more complaints are unresolved meaning the company failed to properly address the complaint allegations or their response was inadequate." |
|
Chuck Liddy, Photographer
 |
Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 3:59 PM on 11.24.10 |
->> "their advertising is grossly misleading"
you mean all those Ashton Kutcher commercials aren't real?
I'm shocked I tell you! SHOCKED!!!!! |
|
Derek Montgomery, Photographer
|
Duluth | MN | USA | Posted: 4:22 PM on 11.24.10 |
| ->> That's probably why after buying all those Nikon Coolpix cameras I have yet to become the life of the party. Maybe I'll have to try Olympus. |
|
Doug Murray, Photographer
|
West Palm Beach | FL | USA | Posted: 4:22 PM on 11.24.10 |
| ->> The Better Business Bureau is owned by Canon :) |
|
Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
|
San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 4:32 PM on 11.24.10 |
->> I recently read a story about the BBB shaking down companies that didn't "pay to play" with them. There were reports of low ratings vanishing once the company paid up. The BBB responded, saying that the incidents were not within company policy.
Sorry, no link.
--Mark |
|
Matthew Hinton, Photographer, Assistant
|
New Orleans | LA | USA | Posted: 4:42 PM on 11.24.10 |
->> Further reading
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1030&message=33499468
"To my knowledge there was no crack on my lens so I asked to be sent the photo's. Four days and three calls later I was sent three photos. one of which looks like what I guess "could be" a small crack on the mounting ring of the lens and the other two pointing out very tiny blemishes on the surface of the lens. I was completely befuddled by this and thought... "they must be kidding". Anyway long story short Nikon refuses to do the repair under warranty."
The pictures.
http://www.ecollinsphoto.com/Galleries/Nikon-Repair/10107055_Rnsn9/1/694121...
"Since then I have contact Nikon 5-8 times in the past month. Each time the answering agent gave a different version why my lens is not covered under warranty, from lack of paper work (which I send in along the lens), to that I can't prove the lens was not damaged by impact. Basically I don't feel Nikon value their customer, and would find any reason they can avoid honoring their warranty.
Read more: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/cameras/nikon.html#ixzz0swuQldJH"
There are many more examples. |
|
Erik Markov, Photographer
|
anywhere | IN | | Posted: 4:43 PM on 11.24.10 |
->> I've heard some various unsavory things about the BBB in the past. Nothing I can point to precisely, but just a feeling of untrust with some of the things they say.
I was thinking about this issue last night, cameras and what we purchase. I've been shooting Nikon since h.s., about 20 years; I'm very comfortable with it. I've been shooting Canon for work for 9 years, and I don't really like it. Nothing specific, just not as comfortable with it as my Nikon gear. I like my D700 over the Mark III. Made me wonder if a camera brand can get intertwined with one's DNA. Other people are the example of a reverse situation.
Maybe it's the photo geek version of Bruce Banner and camera radiation. |
|
Matthew Hinton, Photographer, Assistant
|
New Orleans | LA | USA | Posted: 4:55 PM on 11.24.10 |
->> Excuse me the correct link to the second paragraph quoted paragraph in the last post is
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/cameras/nikon_p2.html
But if you go to the link I initially provided you'll find this recent complaint
"Robert of Eden Prairie, MN November 9, 2010
I purchased a NIKON 24-120MM zoom lense 06/12/06 for a product with a 5 year warranty. In the past year, this lens developed a gradual catch or sticking over its full zoom range when moving from zoom to wide angle. There is absolutely no sign of physical abuse (dropping, etc.) nor has the lens been forced, a point I made with "MONA Y".
The problem occured gradually the way a wheel bearing on your car might do when you notice a gradual increase in wheel noise - not like the sound you might immediately hear after running over a giant pothole where something was damaged.
When returned to NIKON in CA, their position was and is that I damaged the lens: It would not have failed had it not been abused!!!!! I expected help and got hubris. Their position is that I must pay 226.96 to have this NIKON product repaired!
This is not what I expected as a response to my first warranty request ever from this respected company. Not including the SLR NIKON body, I paid 2,154.90 for two NIKON lenses.
Looks like there is nothing I can do but to warn other prospective NIKON buyers NOT TO DO IT. Their warranty means nothing and, to me, their name means less.
Read more: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/cameras/nikon.html#ixzz16EtoJvel" |
|
David A. Cantor, Photographer, Photo Editor
|
Matthew Hinton, Photographer, Assistant
|
New Orleans | LA | USA | Posted: 5:26 PM on 11.24.10 |
->> The BBB rating is indicative of a larger trend for those of you who cannot see the forest from the trees.
Also 20 years is a long time for a company to have turnover and have a change in policy. Just because a company was good in regards to repairs a decade ago doesn't not mean the same staff is handling the repairs now and that you can expect the same quality of service. Though I assume some of you might have had good service, which one should expect, there are many complaints out there that are more than indicative of a poor trend in repair service by Nikon.
This is not a Nikon v. Canon or some other camera manufacturer contest. This is about Nikon and specifically Nikon service. Please stay on subject.
Here is yet another example of Nikon not honoring warranty and claiming impact damage.
"Casey of Walnut Creek, CA June 4, 2010
I bought a Nikon D40. The lens had problems from the first day I bought it. It would not autofocus properly. After a year the lens finally stopped working completely. The lens had a 4 year warranty so I sent it in and they refused to repair it claiming it was my fault. The lens was never dropped or received any sort of impact. They sent the broken lens back and forgot to send me back the original receipt. I will never buy Nikon again. Hello Canon. Lens is 120 new but I refuse to buy another Nikon product so I am out 500 total for the camera.
Read more: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/cameras/nikon_p2.html#ixzz16Ezvp7Wb" |
|
David Brooks, Photographer
|
Randy Sartin, Photographer, Assistant
|
Knoxville | TN | USA | Posted: 8:22 PM on 11.24.10 |
->> I have had some very serious issues with Nikon service, including them losing a 70-200mm 2.8 for a few weeks. (and then I got to pay for $750 for impact damage on a 6 month old USA lens)
This was one of the primary reasons I changed brands. What aggravates me about the whole thing is apparently NPS is the cat's meow, so I guess their big problem is at a lower service level. |
|
Jordan Murph, Photographer, Assistant
|
Honolulu & San Diego | HI/CA | USA | Posted: 8:52 PM on 11.24.10 |
->> If someone were to wreck a brand new Jetta after driving it off the lot, VW wouldn't cover the damage. That's out of warranty and it's the driver or insurance carrier's responsibility to pay. What makes camera equipment different?
Back on topic, I (and I can confidently say "we", for a number of other professionals in Southern California) have nothing but good things to say about Nikon/NPS out west and back east. Cindy, Vic, and formerly Armando in L.A. are (were) always fantastic, helpful, and kind and the gang back in Melville are some of the best in the business as well. And then there you have Ron.
Don't let a story like these scare you from buying Nikon equipment. For the handful of unhappy customers there are many more satisfied ones like me/us.
Aloha
Jordan
PS...most of these stories seem to be written by non-professionals? |
|
Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
|
Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 9:17 PM on 11.24.10 |
->> OK, this is "MY OWN" experiences with Nikon USA..
1) They replaced an old D3 with a Brand New D3s and a new 70-200/2.8 VRII UPS Trashed
2) They replaced a Shutter and Sensor on a D3 (No Charge) I got this body Second Hand, but it was Like New with 400 Actuations and Warranties are NOT Transferable.
Most Importantly, I don't trust any of the dumbasses at DPR, they live for whining, Pissing and moaning!! You should see the threads of hate when someone claimed there was a Moisture Leak on LCD on ALL D3's and that they wanted a Class Action Suit against Nikon.. Just a totally useless bunch!!
The BBB is meaningless nowadays!! They are in it for the money!!
I wonder how they rate the Canon USA "You don't know how to set up your EOS 1DMKIII Bodies, so here's a PDF Document on how to use your body" and the Classic " There is NO Focusing Problems with the EOS 1DMKIII Bodies, they are all within spec"
Y |
|
Chuck Liddy, Photographer
|
Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 9:18 PM on 11.24.10 |
->> we had a story the other day about the BBB using strong arm tactics to make businesses "pay up" or get rotten grades. and I too wonder about some of the complaints which were used as "evidence" of a total nikon breakdown in this thread. I equate things like this with most other like it in life. no matter what there will always be some disgruntled customer..it doesn't matter what business, someone will always be pissed off and so you get a few people complaining and all of a sudden it's a black mark against the whole company....come on, how many 100's or even thousands of people have been satisfied with nikon service over the years? I would take a rating like that from a suspect group with a total grain of salt. to be honest this is a somewhat professional site with a lot of nikon customers, does anyone actually think nikon wouldn't have been called out here first?
the whiny bastards that we are? let someone get the jump on us by complaining about nikon service FIRST? NO WAY!!!!! |
|
Mike Ullery, Photographer, Photo Editor
|
Piqua | OH | USA | Posted: 9:28 PM on 11.24.10 |
->> We have no one to blame but ourselves...for accepting and even embracing "big box" retailers and mail order companies.
For years, a growing number of photo enthusiasts, (not to mention virtually every other type of product), looked to save a couple of dollars here and there by ignoring photo specialty stores in favor of purchasing online.
Slowly but surely, photo specialty stores died. Along with them went personal service, and...dedicated and responsible sales representatives from Canon, Nikon, etc. Quality photo stores and sales reps both took personal responsibility for customer service and satisfaction.
As big box and online retailers began demanding that they, and not the manufacturers would set the pricing and call the shots, service and sales reps went out the door.
We are now reaping what we sowed. |
|
Sam Santilli, Photographer, Photo Editor
 |
Philippi | WV | USA | Posted: 10:55 PM on 11.24.10 |
| ->> I had a problem with the BBB last year. Three out of state customers who were mailed CD's, claimed they never received the items. Everyone else on the team did, so I resent the cd's to the three who claimed not to get them. In the one week it took to get them new cd's, sent with delivery comfirmation, these three clowns filed claims witht he BBB and asked for refunds thru Visa. I showed Visa card services the USPS recpts, and they gave me my money back. BBB could have cared less. They were rude, and claimed I needed written confirmation from the customers that they did get the items. Two of them sent me e-mail confirmations. The other one still claimed to not have gotten the CD, even though I had USPS signed proof that he did. So I called the postal inspector in his area, and filed a fraud claim against him. I sent the BBB a copy of the claim papers. I have not heard back from the USPS inspector, the BBB, or the clown who got the other two parents to go in on his scheme. |
|
Matthew Hinton, Photographer, Assistant
|
New Orleans | LA | USA | Posted: 12:14 AM on 11.25.10 |
->> Jordan
Say you brought a car in because it's making a grinding noise from the rear axle. Then the car dealership takes the Jetta and looks at every piece with a micro lens or magnifying glass and then finds a small crack in the front bumper on the other side of the car. They then say that this tiny microscopic crack on the front bumper is impact damage and then say it voids warranty for a grinding noise on the rear axle.
Would a car dealership do that? Of course not.
But that is what many people are describing that Nikon is doing. In the link to the pictures I sent earlier, you can't see some of the cracks with the naked eye and need a micro lens to see them. One crack is barely the size of the tip of the tweezers. We are talking barely 1 millimeter or smaller.
But the guy sent the lens in because there was problem with the zoom, not for a microscopic crack in the lens mount. That "crack" can come about from changing lenses on a regular basis like a professional might do a lot.
If you own Nikon equipment that is currently the risk you take with a company that offers a 5-year professional warranty. The warranty is part of the initial cost of the lens so you pay for it. If they are going to disregard the warranty they should not advertise it, or have it all, and lower the price.
And you shouldn’t be acting like "Wow I had good service!" Because you are paying more on average for the same type of lens from Nikon than you are from Nikon's major competitor. You should have equal if not superior service.
As for NPS service being better that is not the case for the photographers in my area.
At the paper I work at the staff bought D2H cameras for a staff of over 12 photographers including editors. There were two bodies per photographer. Every single one of the bodies failed within a year. Also the editors barely used their gear and gave their gear to other photographers whose D2H’s had failed, then these bodies also failed. All of these bodies 20+ failed and Nikon didn't honor the warranty on many of them and was very slow in returning the repaired gear. This was all NPS service. The same was true with a lot of lenses.
I'm talking about a lot of gear. Not you and a couple of your friends having good experiences.
So now the paper uses the other guys. The service is quicker, not as expensive and many minor repairs are done for no charge. If a camera is late a loaner comes quickly and usually the repair is free if it is late.
Though I certainly expect that some of you have had great service from Nikon, that is what you should expect. But many including the paper I work at have been dissatisfied with the reliability of Nikon gear and the poor repair service.
Thom Hogan has written many Nikon field guides for many years. In short his business is all about Nikon. He wrote this last year on his website:
http://www.bythom.com/nikonwrong2009.htm
“It's as if Nikon says "here, take this wonderful new camera and go away." How such a culture got started, let alone promulgated, I don't know. I only wish that Nikon would wake up and start treating their customers like something of value.”
“Ever tried to reach someone human at Nikon? I'm talking about real Nikon employees, in virtually any department. The phone system at NikonUSA is 99 layers of voice mail. Email addresses are usually kept private. You're left with the Knowledge Database, the Service Database, or the contract laborers in the Carribean who answer the tech support questions. Howard Hughes was more accessible than most Nikon employees. Nikon has spent decades building a wall between you and them. This wall has no windows and only a few secret and hidden doors. Worse still, behind the wall Nikon must be indoctrinating the staff to not interact with the customers, because when a Nikon staff member is found outside the wall, they usually refer you to the phone or email portal on the wall. If they do answer a question, their answer is usually short and to the point. Perhaps Nikon employees are all trained in Stepford.”
As for the BBB rating. Nikon had an F rating many, many months and still has one even with the "scandals." The rating hasn’t changed at all. The ratings don’t come from single complaints there are many that have to happen before that is reached and they happen over time.
If you want to go start a thread about how the BBB ripped you off then go do that, but you are missing the point of this thread.
And I have provided you links to three other sites with similar complainants. And there is already one expressing his dissatisfaction of Nikon on this thread. So that makes four different sites complaining about Nikon. So please see the forest from the trees and stop harping on a detail that is yet unproven specifically for Nikon.
Anyone with Nikon gear should be concerned if you are not a staff photographer and have to pay for your own repairs. If you are staff you should worry about your repair budget and having spare cameras and lenses if one should fail.
Don’t expect Nikon to honor your warranty every time, do expect them to go over your professional gear with a magnifying glass looking for any microscopic crack or discoloration, and expect several hundred dollars for any repair. |
|
David Seelig, Photographer
|
Hailey | ID | USA | Posted: 12:23 AM on 11.25.10 |
| ->> Diglloyd.com has also complained of nikon. |
|
Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
 |
Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 2:48 AM on 11.25.10 |
->> Oh brother...
Move along, move along...
Go eat turkey. Spend time with your families. Watch the Burn Notice Marathon on USA Network. Play some touch football with your kids and neighbors.
And ignore this stupid thread...
'NUFF SAID.
(This is 40 seconds of my life I've wasted even replying to this...) |
|
Andrew Malana, Photographer
|
San Diego/Tokyo | CA | USA | Posted: 4:09 AM on 11.25.10 |
->> Just one last word...
I have had nothing but good response and service from NPS USA and NPS Japan.
My two ¥... |
|
Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
|
Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 11:34 AM on 11.25.10 |
->> Bert,
Well said!!
This is now BEYOND Stupid!!
Please add another rating to threads...
"Beyond Stupid"
Thanks and happy Thanksgiving to all!
Off to see my Mom at the Hospital!!
Y |
|
Matthew Hinton, Photographer, Assistant
|
New Orleans | LA | USA | Posted: 12:57 PM on 11.25.10 |
->> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_journalism_scandals
At USA Today "Kelley had been fabricating stories or parts of stories since at least 1991, [until 2004 when he was resigned]"
USA Today is owned by Gannett that has engaged in unfair and monopolistic business practices
http://press.umsystem.edu/fall2001/mccord.htm
Therefore I will not listen to anything that USA Today or Gannett Newspapers have to say.
The News & Observer is owned by the same company as the Charlotte Observer where a photographer altered photos and was fired.
The NY Times fired a photographer who staged a photo and lets not forget Jayson Blair. I'll not listen to anything the NY Times has to say now.
The LA Times and Toldeo Blade fired photographers for altering photos, etc. You know what? I'll just disregard all media because they all have had scandals. (sarcasm)
Many of you work for organizations that have had scandals. But I'm not going to disregard everything you say especially if other sources back up what you say and the experiences of many others is similar beyond coincidence.
It's clear from some the responses that some of you, not all, view Nikon as some sort of sacred cow and no matter how much information I produce to contradict your belief, you will continue to support your belief including name calling and being flippant.
To me it is just a camera company that makes tools for my job and it does a poor job of servicing those tools. |
|
David Manning, Photographer
|
Athens | GA | | Posted: 1:09 PM on 11.25.10 |
| ->> I just had a very good experience with Carrie & everyone at NPS. There were a few hiccups during a repair, but they made everything right. |
|
Chuck Liddy, Photographer
|
Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 1:49 PM on 11.25.10 |
| ->> The Charlotte Observer WAS NOT owned by McClatchy Newspapers, who owns The News & Observer when the scandal you mentioned happened. It was owned by Knight Ridder, get your friggin' facts straight before you start typing that nonsense. Not that what you just spewed out has anything at all to do with this thread..... |
|
Gerry Melendez, Photographer
|
Columbia | SC | USA | Posted: 2:15 PM on 11.25.10 |
->> Wow, Matthew, you can't trust a company based on a few bad apples. What a way to live life. Who cares about all the rest of the great journalist doing outstanding work. Nope, won't trust anything pulitzer prize- winning Damon Winter does for the NY Times. He works for the Times and can't be trusted. Or all the other dedicated staffers throughout the country who continue to do great work under tough working conditions. By the way I work for a McClatchy paper and take offense to such ignorant dribble.
By the way, Happy Thanksgiving everyone! |
|
Gerry Melendez, Photographer
|
Columbia | SC | USA | Posted: 2:18 PM on 11.25.10 |
->> Ok missed the sarcasm part of your comment, my bad.
More importantly, Hope everyone has a good Thanksgiving! |
|
Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
|
San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 2:30 PM on 11.25.10 |
->> McClatchy owns part of K-R. They sold a large part of it to Media News.
--Mark |
|
David A. Cantor, Photographer, Photo Editor
|
Chuck Liddy, Photographer
|
Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 3:52 PM on 11.25.10 |
| ->> A turkey thread for Thanksgiving! Perfect! Enjoy the holiday! |
|
Matthew Hinton, Photographer, Assistant
|
New Orleans | LA | USA | Posted: 4:02 PM on 11.25.10 |
->> Gerry some of my work has appeared in the publications mentioned. I guess I can't trust myself.
I stated I was being sarcastic. I don't know how to make it more obvious.
To the usual suspects on this list: What company needs a marketing department when they have trolls like you to insult, snipe and defend them? |
|
Eric Canha, Photographer
|
Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 4:57 PM on 11.25.10 |
->> I have had nothing but INCREDIBLE service from Nikon. Debbie sets a standard that if matched by car dealers, you'd only ever need to buy ONE car for the rest of your life. I can't remember a single time when I've sent in a repair that I didn't have a loaner in my hands within 24 hrs.
Several years ago I had to send my D2x in for service the week of my wedding. Not only that BUT I screwed up and sent it to 'regular' service instead of NPS. I contacted Deb and told her when the body hit NY. She went down to the receiving dock and FOUND my package and walked it over to the NPS service area. I had my camera back in time for my honeymoon THAT SAME WEEK.
I had a body go in for service on a re-do. When the tech could not duplicate the problem Jim called to dig deeper and duplicate the error. Jim has intervened TWICE to dig deeper and find problems that were intermittent just to make sure that the bodies were returned fixed. I know of more than one person on this board who Jim Has stepped in for and gone the extra mile to make sure the repairs were 100%.
nps@nikon.net DOES get answered. This summer when UPS squashed a D3. I sent word back to Nikon, to just plain old "nps@nikon.net". No 'special' 'secret' email addresses or secret handshakes. FIFTEEN minutes later I had a reply. Within the day, I had contact with Mona and the the rest of the Nikon team handling the problem, AND A RESOLUTION PLAN. OH AND A LOANER THE WHOLE TIME...
Annie, Debbie, Mona, Tim, Mike, Jim, Bill and all the rest of the NPS team are pretty much #1 world class when it comes to taking care of members and #2 damned either way. If service is solid gold it's "expected" because after all "we've" spent $50k and should be treated special (bullshit) or if they can't fill a request they all suck and are there only to take care of the dentists who spent $60k to take photos of ducks.
To all of the NPS staff who may land on this thread, have a happy and healthy Thanksgiving. You guys (and gals) ROCK my world and I for one am sure that the BBB "F" was just a truncated "F"antastic!!! |
|
Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
|
Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 7:51 PM on 11.25.10 |
->> There you go Eric!!
FANTASTIC!!
And you don't have to pay $500 a year to get the Top of the line "Platinum" Service, it's FREE!!! 24 years as an NPS Member and counting!!
Y |
|
Mark J. Terrill, Photographer
|
Simi Valley | CA | USA | Posted: 2:39 AM on 11.26.10 |
->> I have to imagine that if you looked you could find a lot of the same complaints about Canon service. You're never going to make 100% of your customers happy. I've had plenty of experience with both companies in my almost 30 years in the business and I've found that their customer service is about the same. Both are pretty good.
All I know is that my cameras work perfectly right out of the box. No super secret special tweaks. I'm so happy with them that I'm giddy and that's all that matters to me.
I will say, however, that both companies tend to call everything "impact damage" even when it isn't. That bugs me a little. |
|
Ray Anderson, Photographer
|
San Francisco | CA | USA | Posted: 10:15 AM on 11.26.10 |
->> Both Nikon and Canon get an F for all the 400 2.8 and 600 lens they sold for thousand of dollars that are now paper weights because Nikon and Canon refuse to make 200 or 300 dollar parts after several years for those big dollar lens.
I have an older nikon 400 2.8 lens that the stainless steel mount wore out on.
Nikon no longer makes this 200 dollar part, I got lucky no thanks to Nikon but a repair guy in SF happened to have the part I needed to fix this expensive lens.
To me its like having a car I paid 10 grand for and I can not get a 250.00 part to repair the car.
I shoot both Nikon and Canon I am waiting for the day when one of them decides to make parts for the lifetime of a 5,000 to 10,000 lens.The company that decides to do that will be the one that gets all my business. |
|
Butch Miller, Photographer
|
Lock Haven | PA | USA | Posted: 11:39 AM on 11.26.10 |
->> "It's clear from some the responses that some of you, not all, view Nikon as some sort of sacred cow and no matter how much information I produce to contradict your belief, you will continue to support your belief including name calling and being flippant. "
Quite like we produce information from our own perspectives of actually using Nikon service and repair and you continue to "believe" they are worthy of the BBB F rating because you had one refusal of warranty service ....
I can't speak for others, but it is not my "belief" that Nikon service and repair centers have done a wonderful job for me over the years ... it is my EXPERIENCE that dictates my opinion ... that experience come from my own equipment service as well as working the counter in a local camera shop for a number of years processing service orders for clients ...
Sure, there are going to be cases where any company will refuse to make certain repairs under warranty ... that's the nature of business .... not every Big Mac looks like the one on the commercial when you open the box either ...
What I find problematic with this thread is the argumentative nature that somehow those of us who have had decades of positive experiences with Nikon repair ... must either be wrong or refuse to accept a different point of view on the subject ... because "some" customers have had a disappointing experience that "all" customers must be receiving the same results ... which is never the case ...
This smells more of a vendetta ... than enlightenment that Nikon repair is no longer a sacred cow ... |
|
Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
|
Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 12:28 PM on 11.26.10 |
->> Well stated Butch!!
I couldn't have said it better myself, literally, I can't write as eloquently as you do ;)
Y |
|
Chuck Liddy, Photographer
|
Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 12:35 PM on 11.26.10 |
| ->> Ray is right on target with his statement. I have the same problem with a useless 400 2.8 that had an accident. I too was astonished that a $7000 (I didn't pay that) lens only five years old was "unrepairable" by everyone I sent it to just because the parts were no longer available. I found it hilarious you could buy parts for a car over 75 years old but not for a piece of equipment I had t-shirts with more age on. |
|
Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
|
Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 1:54 PM on 11.26.10 |
->> Chuck, you are correct!! That plain SUCKS!!
I've passed on great deals on 300/2.8 AF-S Lenses for that reason alone!!
Y |
|
Mark Watkins, Photographer
|
Acworth | GA | USA | Posted: 3:21 PM on 11.26.10 |
->> Nikon gets an "F"? Thats not news. They have been making them since 1959. Shoot I have had my "F" with ftn finder since 1978. An F2 since 1979, F3hp since 1984, F4s since 1992 and F5 since 2000.
So to Nikon an "F" is nothing new! :) |
|
Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
|
San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 3:40 PM on 11.26.10 |
->> Mac!
PC! |
|
Michael Fischer, Photographer
|
Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 4:08 PM on 11.26.10 |
->> A couple of comments:
The BBB is "interesting". I had a call a couple of weeks ago telling me how my other business had a outstanding record and for only $600/year could be certified..yada yada yada.
I told the representative I'd have to talk to my partners. Extortion is a dirty words..
Mike Ullery, you hit it right on the nose. Every time an independent goes out of business, the level of service drops. The reason pros get better service is because the company makes more on what they see. Consumer product, regardless of what it is are narrow margin and as a result, there's less room to "play".
M |
|
Jock Fistick, Photographer
|
Brussels | Belgium | | Posted: 7:22 PM on 11.26.10 |
->> I have to echo Eric - my experiences with NPS have always been good - both in the states and in Europe. From always having loaner equipment when needed to fast repair turnaround and free sensor cleanings. But I have to give special props to our Nikon rep in Belgium, Maarten Goossens, who is awesome! He consistently goes above and beyond the call.
Recently I had a focusing issue with a 24-70, which was close to the end of it's warranty. I brought the problem to Maarten's attention at an EU Summit that NPS staffed - and he said to bring it into the shop when I had time. Well, by the time I finally got around to it - the warranty had expired. And I wouldn't have had much recourse if he had said "sorry, but you should have moved your lazy ass and brought the lens in sooner!" - which he could have easily done - but instead he did the right thing and covered the repair.
And to go one better - I had a D3 stolen the day before a big industrial job which had to be done in available light. And at the time my backup was a D2X - not a bad camera - but low light was not it's strength - and that's being kind! So after I finished filing the police report - I contacted Maarten just as he was leaving the office. I quickly explained my dilemma and pleaded for a D3 loaner. I was in rush hour traffic on the other side of town and he had somewhere to be - but instead of blowing me off - he grabbed a camera, jumped in his car and met me on the side of the road to hand it off to me - I signed the paperwork on the hood of my car and we parted ways. He literally saved my ass! This kind of exceptional service, coupled with the unfortunate circumstance that many of my colleagues who use Canon, have to go to Germany, France or the Netherlands for service - kept me from switching during Nikon's dark days. |
|
Matthew Hinton, Photographer, Assistant
|
New Orleans | LA | USA | Posted: 7:19 AM on 11.27.10 |
->> Shall we go back a few years? I have a D70s. How did that come about?
I had the blinking green light of death problem with my D70. I was able to get it repaired for free thanks to many, many people having the same issue and Nikon decided to actually do something about a common trending problem and repair it for free. But I don't know of anything recently where Nikon did the same for other products besides some recalled batteries.
But even after getting the blinking green light of death fixed, the D70 failed two more times for no particular reason and I told Nikon about the Lemon Law and they sent me a D70s. After getting the free replacement D70s, it also failed inexplicable and had to be fixed.
I handled the repairs at a small paper with a staff of three. Thanks to Lemon laws (more than three repairs in a year’s time), many of the D1 cameras were upgraded to D1H cameras. Also this happened with at least three 17-35mm AF-S lenses that were replaced with new ones because they needed frequent repairs.
At the time Nikon honored some of the warranties on the lenses, not the cameras, but the service was still slow for a newspaper where equipment is needed everyday.
And at the paper I work at now the person in charge of repairs told me about 20 plus D2H’s (not to be confused with the D2Hs model) that all failed within a year.
This begs the question why did Nikon come out with a D2Hs? It wasn’t a major upgrade, in fact it basically the same camera with the same megapixels that fixed an issue of the D2H (IR filter) that Nikon expected you to pay for.
“The D2H series has a relatively weak infrared (IR) filter,[4] causing certain dark-colored fabrics to take on a slight magenta color cast.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikon_D2H
Individually you could just look at the D2H and say "Well the D2H was just a bad model and was like the Ford Pinto." But there have been several bad models and several common trends and repairs needed.
So I don’t discount that some of you have had good service and may have missed out on the headaches of crappy models or had a few lens that didn't fail. But if you start dealing with outfitting a staff that uses their gear daily and dealing with repairs on a regular basis you’d start to see trends with the same equipment over and over again. An individual story is anecdotal evidence. And the information I have provided from several sources adds up to more than just anecdotes.
In the past with Nikon gear you could go to your local Nikon authorized repair shop and get repairs. Now for just about any repair it has to be sent off to El Segundo or Melville for service. Even if you bring an item to your local repair shop they will often send it off to Nikon. So repair choice has been limited in the past few years unlike the past decades.
Recently in the past two years there have been more and more incidents of Nikon denying warranty service for “impacts” to void warranty service and when pressed the service has sent customers microscopic pictures of cracks that you need a micro lens or microscope to actually see.
I'm not saying it is, but it sounds like a bait and switch. You must send in your USA warranty non-grey item to Nikon and only Nikon not a third-party repair shop and then when it gets there, they suddenly tell you the warranty is void because of some micro-crack that you never saw and for all you know might have existed the whole time you had the lens. In many cases the lenses are less than a year old as one poster on this thread mentioned.
And going back to the green light of death issue, what if Nikon back then said that all the D70 bodies had ‘impact’ damage. Could a design flaw be as quickly and easily discerned from a bunch of items with ‘impact’ damage? I’m guessing not.
Also if you send something in for repair they make it difficult for you to say "just grease the zoom ring." They will give you some spiel about returning the camera to factory condition and that major parts have to be repaired. This is not what a professional needs. He's not going to show off his camera lens to his doctor friends, he / she needs a clean working lens quickly, not something that looks aesthetically pleasing.
The economy has changed; companies change and have turnover over decades. There is no reason to think that though you had good service from a company 10 years ago that you will also have good service today. And in the past ten years the service hasn't been that great for some people that actually have to deal with lots of gear.
What inspired this post was seeing yet another Sportsshooter.com member looking to buy a Nikon USA item in the Classified Ads section a few days ago. It is merely out of concern for those people who think by getting the USA item and sending it to Nikon they well get better service. In my and others experience that is not the case and paying extra for a USA item or a 5-year warranty is kind of a gamble at this point. I find a lot of things to like about the image quality of the lenses, when they work, and the engineering of newer full frame cameras but I cannot recommend Nikon service or its USA warranty.
http://www.bythom.com/nikonwrong2009.htm
As Thom Hogan wrote “If the management of Nikon made as good a decision as does, say, the designers who worked on the D3 generation of cameras, Nikon would be another Apple: a brand that users would rally behind and defend against all comers.
But you might have noticed a theme in my complaints: users get short shrift in Nikon's world. It's as if Nikon says "here, take this wonderful new camera and go away." How such a culture got started, let alone promulgated, I don't know. I only wish that Nikon would wake up and start treating their customers like something of value.” |
|
Louis Lopez, Photographer
|
Fontana | CA | USA | Posted: 7:57 AM on 11.27.10 |
->> I have an original D2H that has been in use by me every year and has never been in for service, never any issues. If I had to attach a dollar value based on revenue to each camera body I own,this camera body has hundreds of thousands of frames run through it and has alone been the principal moneymaker earning over one hundred thousand dollars in gross sales over the past five years.
I have absolutely no complaints about the D2H.
Nikon service has been outstanding when I have had my other cameras in for service from my D2xs bodies to my D3 Bodies.
I have never been an NPS member and service at the El Segundo facility has been a regular five day turnaround on any equipment I have dropped off, and I have been dealing with them as a normal regular customer since they were in Torrance.
As a matter of fact, the only time anyone was ever rude was the actual NPS rep, who no longer works for Nikon that blew me off when I brought in a D2Xs with the rubber coming off the CF card door. he stated there was nothing he could do as the adhesive would need to be applied and needs to set for 10 days. After he left the area, the regular counter person, who had overheard the entire convesation told me don't worry about that, took my camera to the back where she had a tech pull a CF door off an unrepairable D2Xs body in the back and swap it out for the one on my camera. took about five minutes.
That one encounter with NPS showed me there was no real advantage to the program other than loaner equipment.
The Rep's lackadaisical attitude is probably why he doesn't work there anymore. |
|
Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
|
Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 1:36 PM on 11.27.10 |
->> When will this thread end??
Matthew, Let it go!!
You don't like Nikon?? Good!! If you prefer Canon, I have a nice MKIV Kit I can sell you.... Have fun paying $500 a year for CPS for something us NPS Members get for free!!
As for Repair Descriptions.... Have you ever read a Canon Repair Invoice??? You will love those...
Y |
|
Mark Perlstein, Photo Editor, Photographer
|
Plano | TX | USA | Posted: 11:10 PM on 11.27.10 |
| ->> Can we ask the SS administrators to start a 50 word max per reply? |
|
Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
|
Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 12:40 AM on 11.28.10 |
| ->> Can we ask the SS Administrators to Lock and Remove threads when they become totally useless?? |
|
Darren Whitley, Photographer
|
Northwest Missouri | MO | USA | Posted: 1:34 AM on 11.28.10 |
| ->> --30-- |
|
This thread has reached the maximum number of posts
If you would like to continue it, please create a new thread.
[ Create new thread? ]
Return to --> Message Board Main Index
|