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Mystery error problem in Nikon D3
Robert Scheer, Photographer
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Indianapolis | IN | USA | Posted: 12:02 PM on 11.22.10 |
->> I'm a Canon guy, but two of my co-workers asked me to put up a thread. Between the two of them, they have two Nikkor 400 2.8s, and three Nikon D3 cameras (not D3s). About a year ago, they started noticing an "ERR" message using this lens/camera combination.
The contacts have been cleaned, both guys (Matt Kryger and Alan Petersime) are tech/gear savvy, and they are at a loss as to what the problem could be. No problems with any other lenses they have. All cameras have had at least one firmware change.
Two of the bodies and both lenses have been sent to Nikon for servicing, and they couldn't replicate the problem.
Anybody experience this? |
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Eric Canha, Photographer
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Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 12:17 PM on 11.22.10 |
| ->> Robert I've had this happen too. In my case if I put a little too much pressure on the body it was enough to decouple the lens from the body. The mount on the lens was A LITTLE weak and thus any torque or pressure was enough to stress the connection. You may be able to tighten the screws on the lens mount. In my case I had to use a cable release for a weekend until the lens could be looked at. |
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Robert Scheer, Photographer
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Indianapolis | IN | USA | Posted: 12:32 PM on 11.22.10 |
->> Eric,
Thanks for the reply. The mounts have all been tightened by them and by Nikon, and as Alan says "we did everything but change the oil."
I don't know when these two lenses were made, but perhaps it's a problem with their production. Evidently, they were purchased new at the same time, perhaps five or ten years old. One of them is a Nikkor AF-S "Gold Band", serial number 201902. |
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 12:50 PM on 11.22.10 |
->> What lens?
Do they have aperture rings?
Older lenses with aperture rings have to be set to f/22 (or whatever the minimum opening is).
Because new cameras set the lens opening (and not the lens itself), you have to set old lenses to f/22 (or f/16). |
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 12:55 PM on 11.22.10 |
->> Or it's a mount/contact problem.
If the mount on either the camera or the lens is bent, it could be the problem.
Long, heavy glass not properly handled and carried can stress a mount. I had that happen with several C***n cameras and lenses. Learned my lesson (the hard way) on the proper way to pick up a camera with a long lens and carrying them around.
Is it happening with just one lens or one particular body? |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 1:02 PM on 11.22.10 |
| ->> what do you mean bert? doesn't everyone just carry around their long glass with the camera neck strap? 8) |
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Robert Scheer, Photographer
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Indianapolis | IN | USA | Posted: 1:11 PM on 11.22.10 |
->> Bert, please see initial post. Two identical lenses, three bodies, handled by guys who are easy on their gear and know what they're doing.
Both gents report that all three bodies (D3) work perfectly with any other lens, and both lenses (400 gold band) work perfectly with any other body. |
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Rick Rickman, Photographer
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Laguna Niguel | CA | USA | Posted: 3:48 PM on 11.22.10 |
->> Robert:
Set the lens to f22 look at the aperature ring and there might be an aperature lock switch. If there is, lock the aperture at 22 with the switch. That should take care of the issue.
Item 2 might be to make sure the mount plate on the camera is tight and the rear mount plate on the lens are tight.
Rick R |
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David Harpe, Photographer
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Denver | CO | USA | Posted: 4:37 PM on 11.22.10 |
| ->> Also check to make sure your camera batteries are fresh and good. |
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Ian Halperin, Photographer
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Plano(Dallas) | TX | USA | Posted: 5:07 PM on 11.22.10 |
| ->> I get the same "ERR" on my old D2H, with any lens, when I power it up after sitting for a day or so. I have to fully press the shutter button, then I works fine. I'm only saying this so you know it may be more than just the contacts/lens. Wish they had a code after the "ERR." |
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Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 5:32 PM on 11.22.10 |
->> ERR Messages on my D2H's meant bad shutter!! It happened to all my four D2H's!!
The aperture Ring not set at the highest aperture is the "FEE" Error, not the "ERR" message.
But this could be something else on the D3's, I don't shoot with 400/2.8's on a regular basis. The longest lens I used was a 200-400 and it was on a Monopod 100% of the time.
Y |
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Dave Prelosky, Photographer
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Lower Burrell | Pa | US | Posted: 5:55 PM on 11.22.10 |
| ->> I had this happen Friday night. I shot about 700 frames of HS football, and stopped at an accident about two hours later. I dropped in a different card, changed lenses. First I got the ERR message only, now I see blank frames recorded on the card. Part of the body seems to think it's exposing correctly, the rest is apparently hollering for service. After a Nikon consult, the body is now booked for repair. |
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Robert Scheer, Photographer
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Indianapolis | IN | USA | Posted: 6:16 PM on 11.22.10 |
->> Everyone, thanks for the help and suggestions. It's a tricky deal to make sense of, as both the users are seasoned pros, so basic RTFM stuff won't apply to them.
Rick, my colleague Alan mentioned the aperture lock switch, but that wasn't the culprit. He did say that the same error message would come up if the switch wasn't engaged properly though. I'm starting to wonder if both lenses don't have switches that are faulty? Still, it doesn't explain why the error message doesn't come up with any other camera bodies.
Anyway, I need to get those guys registered here, so they can talk more specifically. Heck, email them at alan.petersime@indystar.com or matt.kryger@indystar.com
Alan is chatting with me now, and his hunch is that it's just that the lenses are pushing ten years old, and the cameras, three. He thinks it's just an issue of the pins slowly wearing down via lots of use, and losing contact momentarily with each other, resulting in the ERR. When Nikon checks out the problem, they pop a brand new camera on the lens (with unworn pins), and voila! works like a charm!!!
So, we're thinking that having the mount and pins on the lenses replaced would fix this? |
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Mike Braca, Photographer
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Providence | RI | USA | Posted: 6:27 PM on 11.22.10 |
->> I don't think it can be the aperture setting - that would show a 'FEE' error. Blinking 'ERR' signals an unspecific camera problem, like the 'check engine' light on your car.
I presume they've tried the two-button reset, although I think that only resets all the user menu camera settings, and it's hard to imagine that a bizarre combination of settings could cause this (although possibly all three cameras would have the same bizarre setting combo).
Anyhow, this sounds to me like it has to be a power issue. My bet would be that the antiquated AF-S system is a power hog, relatively speaking... that lens was replaced by the AF-S II in 2001. Or maybe the AF-S has to work harder as the lens gets older. Might be interesting to see what happens if they switch to manual focus when the error appears. Does the error appear as soon as you put the lens on, or randomly while shooting?
How about what memory cards are they using? That's about the only thing I can think of that you wouldn't send in to the service center with the camera, unless they are attaching power-sucking accessories like GPS or wireless... They're not using microdrives, are they? Those suck way more power than the flash cards [does *anyone* use microdrives anymore?]! Hard to imagine that regular flash cards would need much power, but maybe if they've got two cards in the camera when the error occurs, they should try pulling one out. Do these cameras have the buffer upgrade? That would be another possible power drain. Maybe adding all the power sinks up is crossing a threshold that is causing the camera to not be able to write the pictures to the memory card.
One other random thing to try is to insert a teleconverter between the camera and the lens, which might expose contact issues.
I love a good mystery! |
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George Bridges, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | USA | Posted: 7:47 PM on 11.22.10 |
->> Robert, surely you are mistaken somewhere. This cannot be a D3 you are talking about.
All I have heard from D3 users is that they have never taken an out-of-focus or improperly exposed image and never had an error. :-) |
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 8:20 PM on 11.22.10 |
| ->> Bent camera mount or whacked lens mount. |
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Louis Lopez, Photographer
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Fontana | CA | USA | Posted: 10:30 PM on 11.22.10 |
->> Sound like a combo of the lens mounts being bent and the camera mount as well. Send the cameras and lenses in together. NIKON can check that everything is meshing together correctly.
This is most likely caused by general camera use and normal wear and tear, not a design defect. |
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Jeff Stanton, Photographer
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Princeton | IN | USA | Posted: 10:39 PM on 11.22.10 |
| ->> Robert, we had an older 400 at my former employer that would do this and it was losing contact with the mount. A 400, especially an older model, is a horse of a lens and it's easy for it to lose contact after it gets some age on the lens mount and the camera mount. |
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Robert Scheer, Photographer
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Indianapolis | IN | USA | Posted: 10:58 PM on 11.22.10 |
->> @Mike, I don't know about the two-button reset (haven't used a Nikon since a 6006 and FM2 in college), and I'll check with Alan and Matt about it. It's definitely not a card issue. They use one card only, and most of ours are Sandisk Extreme III cards. No Microdrives! Dang, that was the stupidest design wasn't it?
@GB: :)
@Bert: I doubt it seriously, as the gear has been serviced by Nikon. They would have caught this, and the lenses mount cleanly, and have no problems with any cameras other than these D3 ones.
@LL and Jeff: Interesting, and it's what Alan Petersime and I are leaning toward. Just a lot of use, wearing down the contacts on the lenses (equal usage), and three-year old D3 cameras. |
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Eric Patterson, Photographer
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Hassel Weems, Photographer
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Locust Grove (Atlanta) | GA | USA | Posted: 1:47 PM on 11.23.10 |
->> My problem lens is on the other end of the spectrum - it's a 20/2.8 AF. It has the slick black plastic finish so it's an old lens.
It shows "err" on both of my D3 bodies but works perfectly on D200, D300, and D700. |
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Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 4:15 PM on 11.23.10 |
->> Hassel,
I have a 50/1.4 of that same Vintage and it runs perfectly on all my D3's...
It's a matter of individual lenses and bodies I think. |
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