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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Why I am reminded daily why I no longer shoot sports...
Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
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| | | Posted: 10:30 AM on 11.10.10 |
->> 1) Recently found out the client that used to pay $300 a game, for 85% of the NFL I used to shoot, plus expenses , now has someone working on spec in exchange for credentials
2) The client I used to shoot the other 15% of my NFL games for, at a rate of $750 a game no gets all its images from stock agencies
3) It appears that my NCAA Div 1 Univ contract that paid pretty darn well for four years is now all in exchange for proceeds from prints sold from the games
4) The two pro leagues I shot for, that paid decently for what they were, now appear to only use shooters who are just "happy to be there" rather than those who are paid to be there
5) Another NCAA Div 1 university I shot for as a client that had a staff photog and 3 or 4 paid regular photogs rotating through the schedule now has a part-time staff photog and is using students, who are not being paid
6) The wire service I covered the Red Sox for, for a few seasons, no longer has anyone covering regularly covering the MLB, much less a specific team (except two teams near two photogs)
7) A local Div III college SID called the other day to ask what it would cost to have me come and instruct 3 of the SID staff on how to shoot spots ... for a day. Yes a day to teach 3 people how to shoot 14 difference NCAA sports ranging from football to crew...why doesn't that seem possible.
8) Yea its just one of those mornings I am glad I sought out other options to feed my kids ... |
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
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| | | Posted: 12:37 PM on 11.10.10 |
| ->> Luckily ... I have not pursued a career as a copy editor! |
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David Manning, Photographer
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Athens | GA | | Posted: 2:03 PM on 11.10.10 |
| ->> So.... need a family portrait for you christmas card? |
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Sam Santilli, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Philippi | WV | USA | Posted: 3:20 PM on 11.10.10 |
| ->> Steven typo'd..or did he?:"how to shoot spots." Yep, Stevo, you got it right, shoot spots. |
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
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| | | Posted: 3:39 PM on 11.10.10 |
->> Dave
Will you shoot the Holiday Card in exchange for a byline on the post card and credentialed access to my porch? |
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Thom Kendall, Photographer, Assistant
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Sunderland | MA | USA | Posted: 4:53 PM on 11.10.10 |
->> Steve,
I'm glad you're not trying to feed your family as a journalist, because that requires getting your facts straight (re: #3, above)...
Ironic, too, that you're posting your little summary of discouraging news on a website that's designed to encourage and support sports photographers...
Haven't there been enough posts about how tough it is out there for sports photographers? Do we really need another one? |
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
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| | | Posted: 5:26 PM on 11.10.10 |
->> Thom,
You are aware I shot for three different universities ... two simultaneously. I named no school.
Yes sports shooter is to encourage sports photography but to also be realistic.
... I have no idea why you have consistently gone after me , when you bid far lower than me on my last UMass contract...which isn't the school I was discussing.
Nice fact checking you have there.
Happy Shooting! |
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Thom Kendall, Photographer, Assistant
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Sunderland | MA | USA | Posted: 5:40 PM on 11.10.10 |
->> Do tell...UM is the only one you've ever waxed nostalgic about...
:O) |
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Mike Janes, Photographer
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Attica | NY | USA | Posted: 5:52 PM on 11.10.10 |
->> I had an SID want me to teach them how to shoot in a few minutes, literally a "we have a couple minutes", to get the same results with their rebel kit body and 75-300 f/5.6 as I was getting with the 400 L 2.8 and MkIII for the games they hired me. Let's just say wasn't surprised not to get a booking from them after they asked what lens should they buy for the next year.
Though for shooting sports overall in the last four years my income has doubled, but then again made a switch in emphasis of what I'm shooting big time. Where the money used to come from and where it is now is a big switch. |
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
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| | | Posted: 6:06 PM on 11.10.10 |
->> Thom,
If you want a war, which I really don't have the time or energy to engage in, my email address is easy to find.
I'm sorry you're bitter about something ... but I have no idea what that was. Your participation in threads where you trash me, compared to the number of threads where do you don't poke a stick at me is somewhat uneven ... and I really have no idea why.
If you have something constructive to add please do so. If not drop me an email and maybe we can settle whatever it is you've been holding against me all these years, because I'd like to know what it is. |
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Thomas E. Witte, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Cincinnati | OH | USA | Posted: 6:13 PM on 11.10.10 |
| ->> I wonder whom Steven would be referring to. Hmmm. |
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Thom Kendall, Photographer, Assistant
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Sunderland | MA | USA | Posted: 7:11 PM on 11.10.10 |
->> Steve,
I don't want a war, and I'm not bitter...See? I'm smiling! :O)
I'm just not at all sure that posting an 8 point laundry list of what's wrong with Sports Shooting is gonna be well received by SportsShooter members, many of whom are painfully aware of how things are, and (still) trying to make a living in the profession, such as it is. So you've seen the light...That's great! But how constructive is it to beat this "sports shooting ain't what it used to be" horse any further, especially in a forum that is dedicated to supporting those that are still in it for "the long(er) haul"? While 19 folks found it informative, I'll wager many others perhaps found it added to their anxiety and frustration over their chosen means of gainful employment.
Regarding the anonymous D1 University, UMass is the one you've mentioned overwhelmingly in past posts, so it would be reasonable to postulate that you were talking about it in your list. My apologies for jumping the gun...So, which one WERE you talking about? |
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Nick Doan, Photographer, Assistant
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Scottsdale | AZ | USA | Posted: 7:16 PM on 11.10.10 |
| ->> Steve is right! I Quit! |
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Steven Mullensky, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Port Townsend | WA. | USA | Posted: 7:28 PM on 11.10.10 |
| ->> Can't we all just get along? |
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John Germ, Photographer
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Wadsworth | Oh | USA | Posted: 7:38 PM on 11.10.10 |
| ->> I actually think this is a good post by Steven in that there's enough info to provide good context. Instead of vague descriptions there is specific first hand experience and dollars discussed. Shockingly enough, sports photography isn't the first business to go through such a market downturn. The US is full of people that have no job - many are 20 somethings that were clueless about what the job market is in the field they want to pursue. Having dreams is great, but dreams don't feed a family. Cold, hard facts are often necessary to properly inform people. Specific information like Steven provided is far more impactful than vague descriptions of "there are no jobs". |
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
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| | | Posted: 7:55 PM on 11.10.10 |
->> Thom
I intentionally left out the names of each organization and I intend to leave it that way.
What set me off this morning was being contacted by a photographer asking me essentially how they can shoot for free ... just after the local DIII SID contacted me asking what it would cost to teach his staff to shoot sports.
Specifically the e-mail from the photog reads:
Fish
Big fan of the blog. Like you I have always loved planes and I loved the photos you shot this summer for Bombardier at the air show. I want to get into working with the airlines like you have and want to know if you can send me some of their contacts. I'd be willing to shoot in exchange for travel to get my foot in the door and show them my stuff.
...I sent a detailed reply on getting in with the airlines, but I also emphasized that this person asking me for contact info, in exchange for shooting for free, was not the best way to get an introduction. They want to take my work, and money from feeding my kids so they can fly.
I admit, I have exchanged work for non-rev passes from some airlines, sometimes it is financially in my favour if I factor in how I'd use the passes (like taking my kids to Vegas, so I'd spend my money on the seats anyway)
Anyway, I saw the parallel to sports photography in the e-mail about shooting for the airlines. This is not the first time I have gotten an e-mail like this, and I am sure it is not the last I'll receive. I have been careful to tell people who ask these questions that I don't just shoot, my role with these clients is 90% social media strategy and content execution ... and I manage to integrate shooting into my work for my clients. This work is not just shooting, it is studying passenger needs and wants, routes, partners, O&D passenger traffic traends, alliances, company branding and positioning, primary passenger attraction, customer attraction management, customer retention management, return on investment and other factors that have nothing to do with shooting ...
... so anyway, that is what set me off and started this post . It just translated into shooting sports and how those clients all seemed to get killed off by the cheapening of the industry.
Happy Shooting ... Happy Flying! |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 10:26 PM on 11.10.10 |
| ->> Thom, I agree with a couple of the other posters. the fact that this is a site for people who make their living, want to make a living and don't make a living shooting sports was the whole point of fish's post. part of the problem is a LOT of people on this site continually put their head in the sand like an ostrich and disregard good advice. every week I go to a football game, basketball game, soccer game, etc. etc. etc there are MORE folks shooting on spec (part of his post) lemme ask you something....when five photogs are at a game all shooting for the same "agency" (I use that term very loosely) do you think any of them will make any money? really? maybe someday it will sink in that working for free or working for access or working for the free lunch or free plane tickets or working for a ridiculously low rate is a BAD idea and hurts EVERYONE. attacking posters on this site for bringing it to light is totally inappropriate or as in your case a lot of "huh?s". |
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Matthew Hinton, Photographer, Assistant
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New Orleans | LA | USA | Posted: 12:07 AM on 11.11.10 |
->> "A 46-year-old blind man from Finland can now read letters, discern patterns and identify items thanks to an electronic chip implanted into his eye."
A blind man can now see thanks to light-sensitive technology.
Many cameras can see in the dark at 6400 Iso and beyond and don't need F2.8 or faster lenses to make good enough photos. The average cellphone has 4 times the resolution of the original Nikon D1 and some even can do HD video as well.
The difference between good enough and professional quality is getting hard and harder to discern. Though our trained eyes might see a difference in quality, most people won't see a difference, and even if shown the difference in quality they won't think it justifies an additional expense.
In the past, barely ten years ago, shooting ten rolls of film or 360 exposures was expensive with film and processing to get good results for an SID or university brochures. So it made sense to have professionals because lots of money could be wasted with someone who didn't know what they were doing. It took knowledge and skill to push Fuji 800 film one or two stops and make color images that were good for publication.
Many prosumer cameras can do better that Fuji 800 ever could and some have an auto ISO function so anybody can shoot well in low light.
Now with digital and higher res digital it's not that expensive a proposition either for the amateur photographer or the SID department to shoot a few hundred or even a thousand frames at a sporting event. Even a crappy photographer can make a decent or good enough photo one time out of a thousand shots at a football game or other sport. And now they don't have to spend hundreds of dollars in film and processing to get those thousand frames, they can buy one memory card and they can look at the back of the camera and know they got a good shot.
So it makes sense for the SID and universities to save money by using people who will shoot in trade for passes.
Technology is making a lot of photography obsolete. This is true in a lot of other aspects of the business, from business portraits, to weddings, etc. The cost of film and processing has vanished and with it the monetary risks involved in using an amateur.
So to make money in the business you need to find clients that recognize the difference in quality, creativity, and even business initiative beyond photography like Fish pointed out. And most importantly clients that are willing to pay for the difference. And unfortunately those clients are becoming fewer and fewer. |
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Kirt Winter, Photographer
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San Diego | CA | USA | Posted: 12:44 AM on 11.11.10 |
->> Personally, I appreciate Steven's post. It's a damn honest appraisal of what it's like to shoot sports these days and it makes me forget about "climbing the ladder" from HS sports to college or beyond.
Were I actually talented, that could come as a relief to those of you who do, but the big relief is that I'm not about to do it for free.
Supply and demand. Too many people want to do it, too few demand (or arguably, need) the highest quality. And, as Matthew points out, the barriers to acceptable quality get lower and lower with each passing year.
Thank goodness for football fields and gyms with crappy lighting! Were it not for them my side business would be a lot of side and not much business. |
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Neil Turner, Photographer
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Bournemouth | UK | United Kingdom | Posted: 2:03 AM on 11.11.10 |
->> My experiences with non-sports pretty much mirror Steven's sports examples. I personally think that he has done anyone trying to make their way in photography an excellent service by painting his slightly dark picture.
Matthew's equally dark point about technology making a lot of photography obsolete is equally hard-hitting and equally true.
The only way to stay in business is to seek out clients who understand the true value of photography which is why I am shifting further and further into the commercial world where there seems to be a genuine appreciation of what I can do for them along with a realistic attitude to pricing.
I love sports. I was never a very good sports shooter. My friends here in the UK who are sports photographers have mostly ended up working for the big agencies or moved away from their passion and followed the money shooting other work which uses their skills.
This, ladies and gentlemen, is how capitalism works - the worst system out there - apart from all of the others! |
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Nigel Farrow, Photographer
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Suffolk | UK | United Kingdom | Posted: 4:21 AM on 11.11.10 |
->> "...While 19 folks found it informative, I'll wager many others perhaps found it added to their anxiety and frustration over their chosen means of gainful employment."
Imagine what it is like on here for those of us who shoot sport and use Canon !! :-) |
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Joseph Rogate, Photographer
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Seaford | NY | USA | Posted: 8:04 AM on 11.11.10 |
->> I agree with Fish. I for have had with fellow sports shooter members undercutting me just to get credentials and or undercutting because they have poor bussiness sense. These threads are meant to inform good or bad. Perhaps if we continue to write about it here the message will get across to others. "DON'T WORK FOR FREE".
I to get the same as Fish gets per game for 3 schools. This year I was told by the SID's that my services for fall sports is not needed because:
1. A shooter in another state shot my teams while they were away for $50.00 , yes I said $50.00. I was told, his photo aren't as good as mine but the price is right...sorry Joe.
2. Another shooter in another state did the same, however , he sent the coaches a full res DVD of the games for FREE, yes I said FREE in hopes of getting future work. Again I was told I wasn't needed because the price is right.
I would like to add that both of those shooters are SS Members.
So a thread here is appropriate because we have to get the message out there..start working for your worth. I don't know about you people but I can't feed the family and pay my bills on free. |
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David Manning, Photographer
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Athens | GA | | Posted: 8:59 AM on 11.11.10 |
->> A local girl used to trade her photos for access & they used one on a billboard for promotional use.
She got very upset when i told her how much money that would have sold for.
Makes me glad I learned how to paint houses in college. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 9:03 AM on 11.11.10 |
| ->> @david....was she a blonde? 8) |
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Thom Kendall, Photographer, Assistant
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Sunderland | MA | USA | Posted: 9:37 AM on 11.11.10 |
->> Chuck,
The irony is I totally agree with Steve and Joe and every other SS member who has confirmed that it's tough as hell out there in the realm of sports photography, and it's frustrating to see all the loss of income potential to people willing to work for the thrill of it...One can only hope that for those folks, the thrill will wear off.
However, the topic has been discussed to death in this forum. The people that get it, get it. The ostriches that you speak of don't get it, and probably never will...
You mentioned that a lot of people on this site disregard good advice...But where, exactly, is the advice in Steve's original post? Is he suggesting that we all follow his lead, give up and find something else? Point #8 comes off as just being smug. |
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
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| | | Posted: 9:41 AM on 11.11.10 |
->> Thom
I was not planning on having a moral to my post ... but if there is a moral it is this ...
... keep your options open. Not enough photographer evolve. I was late to evolve and waited until the market I worked in was almost entirely dead before I found a set of skills elsewhere that I could market.
The other moral...don't be the person who does it for free ... because then when you want money for your work, its just not there. |
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John Germ, Photographer
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Wadsworth | Oh | USA | Posted: 9:54 AM on 11.11.10 |
->> "Perhaps if we continue to write about it here the message will get across to others. "DON'T WORK FOR FREE". "
This would be really nice, but it simply isn't going to happen. That only happens in business - competing on lowest price isn't a sustainable business model in most cases but you're not talking about people running full time businesses. The take away from Steven and Mathew's posts isn't that everyone needs to work harder to keep people from undercutting. The take away is it's a run-away freight train. The army is growing exponentially. Customers are used to getting it on the cheap. Convince the one person doing it on the cheap to charge "what the rate used to be" and they'll be replaced by one of another 5 shooters that just wants to be on the sideline. And, what you also have is people that just concentrate on one TEAM - they don't need to become good sports shooters at everything - they want to be XXU Football games - every game, every year and they don't care about other sports. 1/2 dozen other people are fanatical about basketball at that school and that's all they care about.
You can stick your finger in the crack of the Hoover Dam, but you can't stop it.
Look at it like this - the guy selling photos for $50 to a school. The SID isn't going to pay him $350 plus expenses - he's not good enough. So, do you really think he's going to give up seeing his name next to a photo just so a seasoned pro can get a paycheck? He doesn't have the skill and experience to compete on even ground (nor the equipment in many cases), so why would he want the ground to be even?
You can't stop it - you just have to figure out how to accept it and still earn a living. You just don't have enough to offer that person to motivate them to act like you want them to. They're not running a full time business (usually) so what can you offer to convince them to not do it? |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 9:58 AM on 11.11.10 |
| ->> sorry thom, just because something's been "discussed to death" doesn't make it worthy of what came off from you as a personal attack because you're tired of hearing it. if one of the fools out there shooting for free has a "light bulb" moment it IS worth it. but arguing with you is kind of like beating a dead horse, obviously you have some resentment towards the fish. maybe you should have used email to air your perceived grievances. |
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Angel Valentin, Photographer
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RIO GRANDE | PR | Puerto Rico | Posted: 10:13 AM on 11.11.10 |
| ->> Steve, thanks for the post and please folks DON'T WORK FOR FREE. |
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Michael Granse, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 10:23 AM on 11.11.10 |
->> If Mr Frischling and Mr Kendall agree to a cage match to settle this I would be willing to shoot it for free because I need pictures of photographers trying to kill each other for my portfolio if I ever want to make "The Big Time." ***
***My apologies to anyone who is currently making a living by photographing cage matches between photographers. |
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Jeff Loy, Photographer
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Hurst | TX | USA | Posted: 10:40 AM on 11.11.10 |
->> ".. keep your options open. Not enough photographer evolve."
This phrase bears repeating over and over, especially to the students and the younger photographers just entering the business. It's dead on and a blueprint on how to keep making a paycheck for years to come. |
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Joseph Rogate, Photographer
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Seaford | NY | USA | Posted: 11:05 AM on 11.11.10 |
->> Those who back Fish ans I..Thank you. Enough could never be said about this. I try to educate those I meet on the sidelines of the importance of billing the client. I hope you all do the same.
Take my job because of your talent and not your willingness to work for free. |
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David Seelig, Photographer
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Hailey | ID | USA | Posted: 11:16 AM on 11.11.10 |
| ->> Never work for free. |
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Israel Shirk, Photographer, Assistant
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Boise | ID | US | Posted: 11:39 AM on 11.11.10 |
->> Thom-
Here's a moral for you:
If you had charged more, they would have still hired you. You didn't have to charge the same as Steven, but in the same range - enough to make a living, be respected by your client, and not burn yourself out.
You gained nothing by undercutting. |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 12:03 PM on 11.11.10 |
->> As long as more people enter the business with few business skills, this is a horse incapable of being beaten to death.
The free DVD shooter in Joe Rogate's post has no hope of future work because he's competing with the endless queue of shooters just like him.
If anybody wants to have a full-time job shooting, they will have to justify it with additional skills -- like the SID staffers at Steven's #7. They are the next generation of "professional photographers."
--Mark |
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Mike Anzaldi, Photographer
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Oak Park | IL | USA | Posted: 12:40 PM on 11.11.10 |
->> y'all kind of make me laugh. that's why i read the forums here.
the 'shooting for access' problem is not fixable. a fresh post 'advising' against it pops up every few weeks. it's a little bit funny every time. the only train out of town left the station years ago, yet there is a platform full of dudes still arguing about how and why they missed it.
nobody cares enough about pictures of pro athletes to pay for them. coming out of college, if you really want to get a pay check while photographing some pro sports, set your goal to be a newspaper photographer. the only downside there is, well, you have to be a newspaper photographer the rest of the week. |
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Jeff Brehm, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Salisbury | NC | USA | Posted: 12:52 PM on 11.11.10 |
->> If you want to know why people are leaving photojournalism, check out the SS classified ad today for a full-time PJ at a New Jersey paper. Days, nights and weekends -- $425 a week. That's $20,400 a year, and it's less than what I was paid as a new full-time PJ and reporter in 1983.
I'm not slamming the paper, because that is probably the going rate these days. But when you are expected to work the hours we know are required, for take-home pay of about $260 a week, it doesn't take people long to realize they're better off doing something else. |
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Lee Weissman, Photographer
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XXXXX | NY | USA | Posted: 1:47 PM on 11.11.10 |
->> "...if you really want to get a pay check while photographing some pro sports, set your goal to be a newspaper photographer. the only downside there is, well, you have to be a newspaper photographer the rest of the week."
Wow |
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John H. Reid III, Photographer
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Gates Mills | OH | USA | Posted: 1:51 PM on 11.11.10 |
->> Mike,
I'll disagree with you that nobody cares enough about photos of pro athletes to pay for them. They care enough, but with so many people willing to give their photos away, why would they? Used to be I'd get a call asking about a player, we'd come to an agreement on fee, and I'd FedEx out the photo (usually a slide.) Now when I get a call the first thing I say is that I own the rights to the photos, and I charge for their use. If the call doesn't end right there, I get "Oh, so and so gives them to us for free," or' "We thought you'd want the publicity of being on xyz.com."
A little while ago I got a referral about a Division III event. I was asked how much I would charge. It would be about 3 hours, I was free, could have used the work, so I quoted a figure I knew would infuriate many as being too low, $225.00. I was hoping that it might lead somewhere, the work would be easy, and although I know those aren't particularly good reasons, I'm a realist, I know what the business is like. I never heard back, and after the event was over received what I felt was a smug email saying they never would have paid more than $125.00, and they found someone to do it for $75. I never bothered contacting them back about possibly doing work! (I later told this story to a friend and said, "How do you compete with that?" His answer was succinct and true, "You don't!") |
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Wesley R. Bush, Photographer
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Murfreesboro | TN | U.S. | Posted: 1:55 PM on 11.11.10 |
->> "If you really want to get a pay check while photographing some pro sports, set your goal to be a newspaper photographer. The only downside there is, well, you have to be a newspaper photographer the rest of the week."
What an awesome statement. Oh, and I used to be one of the guys shooting for free AND working at a newspaper. Then I joined this site and learned the damage I was doing to myself and my future. So I stopped doing it and even quit a photography club that was shooting events as a group for submission to the paper I was trying to get on. Looking back, probably a large portion of my career change decision came from the knowledge gained from this forum. Now I do the same thing I was doing at the paper (writing, shooting video and stills) in a completely different industry. So thank you, Fish, and to everyone else who continues to share your unfiltered experience with the rest of us. |
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Mike Anzaldi, Photographer
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Oak Park | IL | USA | Posted: 3:07 PM on 11.11.10 |
->> john-
i think we probably agree. it's not entirely that nobody cares enough about pro sports images to pay. SI for example. they care. their readers care. and, they pay their staff to make really great images. they supply the equipment necessary to make these remarkable images, and they sell the images either online or as magazine art. but, who else? you can only get a credential if you are an accepted editorial entity. so, who is willing to pay $750 for images from a pro game? very few. but $750 is what it should probably cost, all things considered. they are not issuing credentials for pros who are there to shoot stock, right? so really, you have editorial clients who haven't the dough to pay a non-staff professional. it's just not worth paying someone a proper rate for a NFL game. publications will either send their staff, or use the AP, period. there is no place for a self-employed sports photographer at a pro game, that i can think of. the leagues and teams have made sure of that.
consider that a staffer is probably paid $200 per day if they're making $50k/yr, right? hell, double it. if a staffer is making a hundred large annually, that's $400/day. a game is only half of the day for a newspaper shooter...so, $200 for the game. that's a quarter of what it would cost me to shoot it- and that doesn't include a 400 2.8. now, add to that the fact that it's a task that most photographers are willing to do just for the fun of it...
my point was that nobody is demanding SI-quality images for daily use. under pro-stadium lights, any goof can go to the game and come back with something usable for most publications. |
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John H. Reid III, Photographer
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Gates Mills | OH | USA | Posted: 3:15 PM on 11.11.10 |
| ->> Mike, if I understand what you mean then, your point is that nobody cares about quality photos of pro athletes, to them an image is an image. I agree entirely. |
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 3:17 PM on 11.11.10 |
->> Steven wrote: "...... keep your options open. Not enough photographer evolve."
Evolve. Those who have known me have know that I've been preaching this for years. If you want to continue doing sport photography you have to evolve, combine skill sets and look outside the box to create a niche or a new product that people have to have. |
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Gerry Melendez, Photographer
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Columbia | SC | USA | Posted: 3:27 PM on 11.11.10 |
->> "...if you really want to get a pay check while photographing some pro sports, set your goal to be a newspaper photographer. the only downside there is, well, you have to be a newspaper photographer the rest of the week."
Sorry Mike I kinda like being a newspaper photographer. Sports is just a small part of that no matter how big the game. I think most got into it to have impact in their communities through their work. Still is the case today. But that's a long story. Here's a short one.
A lady in her 80's called the office last year. I picked up the phone. She said she wanted a photographer to come photograph her tree. I had a couple of hours so I went. Turns out her husband had just passed away. Every morning they would sit together have coffee and look out their window. That tree was the first thing they saw. Made a decent portrait. The story was better. Got a card in the mail thanking me for taking time out of my schedule. She recently passed away.
Anyway, didn't mean to change this thread. Just thought that comment was a bit misguided. |
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Kevin Johnston, Photographer
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Oden | MI | USA | Posted: 3:30 PM on 11.11.10 |
| ->> Slam me if you want but the last staff job I saw advertised looked like it paid less than $11.00 an hour. Its not just the freelance market thats taking a beating. |
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Adam Vogler, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Kansas City | Mo. | USA | Posted: 3:46 PM on 11.11.10 |
->> Gerry, Amen brother.
I also kinda like be a newspaper photographer and don't give a hoot about shooting pro sports. |
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Nick Adams, Photographer
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Houston | TX | | Posted: 4:32 PM on 11.11.10 |
->> Sadly a hundred photographers will apply to the NJ job.
A reporter took a job a while back just as bad as the New Jersey one. Here is a story about it.
http://www.poynter.org/column.asp?id=77&aid=192926 |
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Mike Anzaldi, Photographer
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Oak Park | IL | USA | Posted: 5:14 PM on 11.11.10 |
->> gerry, adam-
if you guys work for newspapers, you SHOULD like it. why else would you do it? certainly not the money...
it's a great job to have as a professional photographer, not just for the reasons you list, but a hundred others you didn't. that said, there are also some quality reasons why working for a paper might not appeal to people who think they want to make a living shooting pro sports. no one has argued yet that a good way to be a career sports shooter is to land a staff job. what i meant by: "the only downside there is, well, you have to be a newspaper photographer the rest of the week" is that most of being a staffer is NOT shooting the NFL game on sunday. that's all.
any interpretation otherwise is simply wrong. though now that you mention it...why are you defensive about being on a newspaper staff? |
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Thomas E. Witte, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Cincinnati | OH | USA | Posted: 5:46 PM on 11.11.10 |
->> Jeff Brehm- Let's not forget taxes. When you get down to those bargain basement wages I'm not entirely sure what the percentage is so I went with 21%. So you're take home would be about $17,380 a year.
Granted it's a small paper in a tiny town seven feet to the left of the Pine Barrens but still. |
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