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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
They make millions yet want free images
Dan Megna, Photographer
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Coronado | CA | USA | Posted: 3:39 PM on 11.02.10 |
->> The following is a portion of an email I just received from the marketing folks of a major aircraft manufacturer sent to photographers who work primarily in the aviation industry -
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Dear Photographers,
Please see the email below that was sent out to our customers yesterday. I’d like to increase the quality of our calendar this year by giving you all a special invitation to submit images for our calendar as well. As you’re all photographers who’ve at least seen our calendar before, you know that the best way to improve it is to improve the quality of the images that go into the calendar.
I also wanted to clarify something. Last year we only did a digital online calendar. This year, however, we’re printing the calendar once again as it’s in high demand and our customers really enjoy receiving these.
There is no remuneration for these images. Instead, we will make sure your images are fully credited to you and I’ll even add your contact info as well so that others in our industry who receive our calendar can contact you. Think of it as free advertising. So, please make sure I obtain your full name, the name of your business or DBA, mailing address, phone number, email address and website URL (if applicable).
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These people manufacturer aircraft. They make millions and millions of dollars in sales and likely spend millions in global marketing. Yet, they don't want to pony up a nickel for images.
This isn't an isolated instance. Several photographers, including myself, have had face to face conversations over the years with the marketing people of this particular company, including the author of this email, trying to make them understand the economics of OUR business. Obviously, we've failed!
I know this occurs all the time but I just needed to vent. Now, to carefully craft my response.... |
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Manuello Paganelli, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 3:52 PM on 11.02.10 |
->> YOu want some action? How about putting his name and email here so he can received hundreds of emails from pro photographers asking him if we could get free ride across the globe instead of no payments?
Or maybe he could come and paint my home for free too. I'd make sure that his name is showing somewhere by the back gate, if I choose to, so my neighbors can hire him too.
I think he may get the message this time.
More2Come |
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Butch Miller, Photographer
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Lock Haven | PA | USA | Posted: 4:13 PM on 11.02.10 |
->> Sadly ... it is a growing and pervasive attitude that businesses and clients not only desire something for nothing ... they actually expect something for nothing ...
Unfortunately, they will likely receive some images from those photographers who believe a byline is more than enough payment for their contribution ... |
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John Tucker, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Cordova | TN | USA | Posted: 4:25 PM on 11.02.10 |
| ->> Too bad I can't pay my mortgage or feed the wife and myself with photo credit.........maybe he'll let me fly for free if I show my ticket to everyone I meet! |
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Dan Routh, Photographer
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Greensboro | NC | USA | Posted: 4:30 PM on 11.02.10 |
| ->> A byline and a buck will get you a cup of coffee at McD's. Contact info on the calendar will identify you to all the other folks in the aircraft industry as a source for free images. Sounds like a deal. |
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John Tucker, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Cordova | TN | USA | Posted: 4:31 PM on 11.02.10 |
| ->> I'm with Manuello, send out the contact info and we can all ask for free tickets! |
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Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 4:42 PM on 11.02.10 |
->> I got a similar E-mail from the marketing director at a major Flashlight Manufacturer. She was wondering if I wanted to get compensated for the Images I had shot at a major event earlier this year that they might want to use in their catalog....
Some of these folks are out of touch!! We tend to blame the photographers that give away freebies, but the end users are to blame too, because they request the free work to begin with. Yes, some out there should refuse to give them the free images, but as long as some of these people ask for the free work, the problem will continue. |
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Brian Dowling, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 5:00 PM on 11.02.10 |
| ->> And these are the people that email you. Just image the people that just take images for free. Just a reminder to register... |
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Mike Janes, Photographer
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Attica | NY | USA | Posted: 5:37 PM on 11.02.10 |
->> Happens all the time, I know a billionaire who won't spend a dime on photography or on any of his employees for a team he owns. He wants it run by interns so they don't have to pay anyone. Used to see him all the time and been dying to run into him the past few years to discuss but haven't.
Teams in the four major sports, major colleges, leagues, all of them cry poverty and ask for free images. Card companies have been doing it lately asking to pay pennies, and some are stupid enough to agree to it (there are still good ones to work with BTW, just like any company there's good and bad). Just have to negotiate and if they don't meet your minimum then tough luck for them.
Yamil - I kind of disagree and agree with you. They wouldn't be asking for free images if people weren't willing to give them away free. It's like the Nigerian prince emails, they wouldn't send them if some people weren't stupid enough to fall for it. If people stopped doing it for free the editors would stop asking, but that is not going to happen as there's too many out there that are happy just to see their photo used and call themselves a "professional". So as long as people are still willing to hand them over free they'll keep asking, just means you refuse them usage. |
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Danny Munson, Photographer
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San Dimas | Ca | United States | Posted: 5:55 PM on 11.02.10 |
->> "Yet, they don't want to pony up a nickel for images."
They don't want to because they don't have to. Nowadays some photographers would pay for the privilege to have their image included in the calendar with their name at the bottom for an ego boost.
I'm in negotiation right now with a company wanting an image for product packaging and of course, as usual, their first offer in credit. When I quote a price it is always "well, we have two others we are looking at and the photographers both agreed to credit"
Pretty frustrating but I don't see it getting any better. He did agree to a price but less then I would have liked. |
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Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 6:22 PM on 11.02.10 |
->> Mike,
I'm not saying that the blame goes only to the companies and Art buyers. Everyone is at fault!!
For example, a magazine called me last year to send them an image for publication. It is a very small magazine, under 20K issues published bimonthly.
I was expecting a very little check, but not as little as they sent me!! I never know how much they pay because it depends on size and quantity!! I never cashed the check and I have since decided not to give them any more images unless they change the prices they pay for Images!! |
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Mike Janes, Photographer
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Attica | NY | USA | Posted: 7:22 PM on 11.02.10 |
->> It's definitely everyones fault, sometimes you win and sometimes you don't when it comes to negotiating terms of usage for an image. My question is why did you send them any images without knowing the rate beforehand?
I've turned down a lot of "offers" that I can see many jumping at just to see their photo used, and know people who gladly gave images away just to get published by them. Last year an MLB team asked for the first photos of a draft pick in their uniform during game action in the Instructional League, almost missed my flight home waiting for him to get in the game. Gave them a GREAT rate and didn't hear a word. Find out later another guy I know sent them one free of the guy in his MILB uniform, over exposed and just not that good. He was just happy to get it used and they cried poverty (BULLS**T)!
There's a card company right now asking to pay half the normal rate for usage, well about 20 photographers have gotten together and told them no. I'm sure there's plenty out there that don't care it's half the normal rate and just want to see their photos used so will jump at it. Who cares if they refuse the company will have to pay more and they'll still have a chance to get their images used, they jump at the first bad offer like idiots. Not saying anything bad about the card company asking either here, if it's your job to get photos you'd low ball to hoping that someone accepts it and be the hero to your boss that you cut costs by x-percent. Of course though in the long run accepting these low offers only kills your business so you have to pack up shop earlier and they lose out on great images in the long run, nobody thinks long term. |
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Mark Sobhani, Photographer
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San Antonio | TX | USA | Posted: 7:37 PM on 11.02.10 |
| ->> Most people (and companies) don't get rich by spending money when they don't need to. |
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Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 8:30 PM on 11.02.10 |
->> Mike,
I sent the Image because of a 17 year relationship and I expected a little more.
My fault, I know, but I honestly expected more!!
I learned though!! The editor of this publication fancies himself a Photographer, he can make Images, but he is NOT a Photographer by any stretch of the Imagination. Not a bad person, but IMHO some folks should stuck to what they do and let us do what we do and pay us for it. |
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Matt Kartozian, Photographer
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Scottsdale | AZ | USA | Posted: 1:59 AM on 11.03.10 |
| ->> About time you cut him off Yamil, and I know exactly who you are talking about. |
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Mike Janes, Photographer
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Attica | NY | USA | Posted: 2:07 AM on 11.03.10 |
| ->> Ah, gotcha - thought it was an out of the blue thing and not that long of a relationship. I've had them before and ended them, about to end another that asked if we (few photographers) mind they cut their rates and we all said yea we mind and did not agree to it. Next check they cut their rates anyways!! Time to cut ties with these bad editors and companies like that. They can go get the out of focus, under/over exposed, poorly cropped, and harder to track down images creating a lot more work for themselves. Now, only if these other idiots who give away half their stuff for access or a pittance just to get used would realize they're only hurting themselves in the long run by accepting it. |
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 11:45 AM on 11.03.10 |
->> A similar letter went out to photographers who specialize in automotive imagery earlier this year. The just of letter sent out was similar to Dan's (RE: http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=36727) Just watch and see as this will become an increasingly common practice in years to come because the companies, ad pitchers and marketing folks who put these offers out are looking for and know they will get responses from one of two types of photographers.
Category I - The hobbyist, part-timer, financially struggling veteran or newly shingled shooter looking to get his/her name out and believes the myth that a credit line in the end product will bring them more work. In fact, if any new work is derived from the project, it is likely to be more free work. Category II - The Egoshooter (my new word coined today); anyone who is willing to shoot to say they were there, were published in or for the thrill of it (see http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=37141) and/or willing gives away their work/images (not necessarily the same) without the expectation of deriving a profit from their activity. There are plethora of these out there and in far greater than numbers than those who fall into Category III. Cat III are men and women who expect to make a profit toward earning a living from their photographic talents. Out of the three, they are the group most offended by these 'offers of exposures' and really ought not be (that's another story) and won't be responding/submitting.
The leading indicator that the practice will become increasingly popular will be the increasing number of these that will come to light here and on other professional message forums. |
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