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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
How to internship/shoot professional sports?
Jeff Stinson, Photographer
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Carlisle | PA | USA | Posted: 1:36 PM on 11.01.10 |
->> I’m really interested in shooting some more professional sports, specifically NFL.
Any tips for someone trying to get out and shoot more? |
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Michael McNamara, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Phoenix | AZ | USA | Posted: 1:57 PM on 11.01.10 |
->> Jeff,
Posting a classified ad isn't the best way of going about it. If you want to intern for certain teams, you should call them directly. You should visit them. You should send them a portfolio, take their criticism, and then send them new work when you've worked on what they told you to work on. The thing that's going to be tough is starting to work for a team with the season close to being half over.
If you just want to be photographing professional sports, I hate to break it to you, but it's not what it's cracked up to be. It's tough to go out and make unique photos when your access is restricted and you can't move as freely as you'd like.
If you just want to "get out and shoot more," I'd say to go find a high school game on Friday night that starts just before sunset. This is the last week you have daylight savings time on your side.
I don't know who said it (I think it was Walter Iooss, might have been Clarkson), but they said if you want to make good pictures, see where all the photographers are, and go someplace else. |
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Jeff Stinson, Photographer
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Carlisle | PA | USA | Posted: 2:13 PM on 11.01.10 |
->> I understand the classified ad part, I’m just seeing if anyone really needs a secondshooter.
I’ve shot high school football for local papers for about 2 years now. Its not bad. I’ve also shot some College, which I really like.
I’m shooting Penn State this weekend, so I hope get more great shots.
I understand right where your coming from, I guess I’m just young and really looking to get more for my portfolio.
Jeff |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 2:31 PM on 11.01.10 |
| ->> Jeff, this topic comes up quite a bit on SS. And judging from your response to the esteemed Mr. McNamara above you really didn't listen, but as you said, you're young. So, let me weigh in. Unfortunately you touched on one of my main pet peeves. Why is it that almost categorically people think just because you are covering a "bigger" event means you're going to get "great shots'. This is probably the single greatest misconception of amateur photographers and non-photographers there is. I used the word "amateur" since you yourself on your member page call yourself a semi-professional. It is somewhat insulting to read that you actually think you will make great photos just because you'll be at a bigger venue. Quite frankly, after viewing your member page I would suggest you continue to work at honing your skills a little longer at a level with less pressure. Sorry if this may seem a little harsh but I am known not to sugar coat my advice. |
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
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Dallas | TX | US | Posted: 2:38 PM on 11.01.10 |
->> Hey Jeff:
As someone who's been doing this "professionally" (if we could call it that) for several years, and for papers small to not-so small, I can tell you this:
An editor worth his or her salt won't give a good you-know-what about the kinds or levels of sports in your book. Prep, college, pros, pony league, etc. If the work is good, then it's good.
I can understand if you want to get into a pro game for the experience of it all. Provided it's not like the Cows-Jags game yesterday, pro ball can be fun.
Just keep doing what your doing, where you're doing it, and keep working to improve. As Rod Mar is fond of saying, "make the 'big time' where you are."
Besides, you don't need to wear a shitty, over-sized red vest to make good photos.
For what it's worth. Best of luck to ya.
- gerry - |
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Jeff Stinson, Photographer
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Carlisle | PA | USA | Posted: 2:47 PM on 11.01.10 |
->> Thanks Gerry,
Really appreciate it. I’m really looking to shoot it mainly for portfolio gain/experience. I’m not really looking to ooh/ahh anyone with shots from the event, especially with how many people I would be bumping elbows with.
And Chuck,
I didn’t mean to come off smart or prude in response, I only said I was young as I’ve not ever really had the experience to shoot a true NFL event. That’s a dream, so in turn, that’s what I meant by young. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 2:54 PM on 11.01.10 |
| ->> I guess what I was partly trying to tell you is that covering pro sports ain't all it's cracked up to be or what you might like. of course, GJ and Michael said it better than me...... |
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Michael McNamara, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Phoenix | AZ | USA | Posted: 2:59 PM on 11.01.10 |
->> Chuck, since you don't sugar coat, I'm guessing calling me "esteemed" is in jest. At least, I hope it is.
Jeff, the thing that will make your photos better is working on angles, lens choice, and light, not venue.
Since you're a freelancer, can you go shoot games that you're not assigned to? Another way of asking the question is: can you go shoot a game and be ok if you don't come back with any good photos? Can you find a place that is high risk vs reward, where you can hang out and hope something happens in front of your lens? Can you find a good high school stadium for Friday night that would have a good view of sunset? Do they play 6 man football in rural PA? Could you go follow a team for a week?
I used to be a photo editor at The Sporting News, and then at the Lincoln Journal Star in Nebraska, and when we looked at portfolios for potential interns (or even for just a critique), we never based our opinions on where the person was taking their pictures. We based our opinions on the quality of the pictures we were shown.
You say on your member page that you like photographing paintball....how about working on that for awhile? You are much more likely to find work as a freelancer if you work a good niche. People who can do a decent job covering a football game are a dime a dozen. The ones who are stellar at it are a fairly small bunch. I'm sure it's the same thing with paintball, except it's a much smaller group of photographers. Do what it takes to put your name in the small group. (I'm in a similar position with photography...yeah, I'd love to be at the World Series tonight, but I've made myself useful to my employer with my food and portrait photography). |
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Jeff Stinson, Photographer
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Carlisle | PA | USA | Posted: 3:11 PM on 11.01.10 |
->> Thanks Michael,
Yea, I can shoot high-school sports since I’m freelance, college is a bit harder.
I know most photographs are judged on quality, but isn’t there always the “who’s in it” factor?
I wish, I freelance, and it’s not really my full time job as of yet. I work full time so my freelance time is really restricted to evening/weekend. I’m right around the capital in PA, so I can get good football from the bigger schools in the area.
As for paintball, I’ve been working on that for 3-4 years now. I’ve become one of the best in the sport, and I’m really interested in more mainstream sports.
I really do appreciate everything.
This is really informative and helps me think on where to look/etc.
I’m really grateful! |
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Michael McNamara, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Phoenix | AZ | USA | Posted: 3:17 PM on 11.01.10 |
->> "Isn’t there always the “who’s in it” factor? "
No, there isn't. At least not with any editor who is worth talking to.
Also, you say that you can shoot the bigger schools in the area...drive 50 miles out of town, and go shoot a small school that never has anybody come photograph them. They'll love that you're there, and you'll get much better access than with a big city program. |
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Dominick Reuter, Photographer
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Cambridge | MA | USA | Posted: 3:29 PM on 11.01.10 |
->> Ok. I was going to stay away from this, but then I saw the ad:
"In exchange for internships, all images I take may be used by Photographer/Organization issuing pass."
On top of that, the listing says you are also looking for a 300mm lens.
I don't know where to begin, except to say you should seriously re-think a lot of things about your approach right now.
I'll leave the rest of the advice to the more seasoned shooters here.
-D |
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Scott Serio, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Colora | MD | USA | Posted: 3:32 PM on 11.01.10 |
->> "I know most photographs are judged on quality, but isn’t there always the “who’s in it” factor? "
WRONG. That only matters if the subject of the photo is that unique or just that rare. An of out focus photo of Tiger Woods giving some member of the media the bird might sell, it would be rare, but that doesn't make it a good photo.
Make great images at whatever level you shoot. In the end, a marginal photo of Tiger Woods is still marginal. I see that so many times in portfolios, exactly what you wrote above. People include crap photos because of who is in it. As if to say "look I was there, I shot the pros", but what you are really saying is "look, I lack composition skills, I missed the peak-action moment, I don't have the self-editing skills to kill this marginal photo, but hey, it is Tiger, so hopefully you will be starstruck."
Plus, you are in Carlisle? You didn't shoot training camp? I am not going to get into the debate about entry points into photography this usually devolves into. But, shockingly, I am with Chuck on this one. Tighter up your shooting and editing skills first. Shoot the sports to which you can get the most access. |
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Craig Mitchelldyer, Photographer, Assistant
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Portland | OR | USA | Posted: 3:38 PM on 11.01.10 |
| ->> I would argue that if your photo has a "who is in it (famous person or team) it is way less likely to blow my socks off because I've seen a million of them just like it. My favorite photos (that I am horrible at) are behind the scenes, away from the action. Preps, emotion, etc. Most NFL or College photos, lets face it, are very boring and not portfolio worthy... |
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Corey Perrine, Photographer
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Augusta | GA | USA | Posted: 3:48 PM on 11.01.10 |
->> I've always said to myself, "If you can't handle the small assignments, how can you handle big ones?"
I think the same goes for people who think going to a foreign country will make them a better shooter. "If you can't handle your own backyard, how can you handle a remote location across the sea?" |
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Mike Janes, Photographer
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Attica | NY | USA | Posted: 4:00 PM on 11.01.10 |
->> I can't count how many times I've seen a portfolio that had a photo of some big MLB, NFL, NBA, etc. star just because of who it is and not the fact it's a good image. There's an "oh it's Albert Pujols photo, it has to be in my portfolio" mentality that doesn't impress anybody you're trying to impress just because of who it is.
The "awe" factor of shooting pro sports wears off quickly, I'd much rather shoot a college game than pro. Youth games are great because of the access you get and can try a lot of different things (still should be getting permission from someone to shoot the game in the first place btw).
I'd also agree with the ad, trading images for access is stupid and the approach is ALL WRONG. Thanks to that mentality of an intern this year I'm not shooting a team that I thought would be a sure thing, but nope they got an intern pushing the limits of what is legal under labor laws handing over everything free. |
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George Bridges, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | USA | Posted: 4:17 PM on 11.01.10 |
->> Continuing on what some have already said here since I've editing what seems to be an infinite number of images with "big names"
Just because there is a big name in the picture or just because it was a difficult shot does not make a good image.
I've seen lots of people put a photo of a big-name politician, usually the president, that they have covered in their portfolio. I look at it and think "gee, it's a guy behind a podium shot from the back riser." It being the president does not impress me. Make an interesting, very different photo from what everyone else at the event has, then I'm impressed.
I also see people put in photos that were hard to get and think that makes it a good image. You may have to go through a certification course, climb the outside of the stadium, cut a hole in the roof, rappel down to a cross beam to install your camera. But, the images that come from it may be horrible. Just not good moments or the angle is off a bit or the exposure etc.
Edit on the image and the image only. If you can handle high school to a strong degree then you can handle the faster-paced college game. If you can handle college to a strong degree then you can handle the faster-paced pro game, and you can get assignments.
Looking where Carlisle is I can tell you getting NFL assignments will not be easy. There are not NFL teams really close to you and each publication in the team's area will have their go-to shooters. Breaking through will not be easy.
And, to be frank, don't go out of your way just to shoot NFL. You don't want to commit to a long drive there, a long day at the game and a long drive back for a too-low day rate just to say you have shot NFL.
Like many here, I started out covering high school sports and local politics, and then when I went to college I covered my college and state politics. Then I moved to DC where I covered pro sports and national politics.
Take a look at a lot of people posting on this thread. Not all of them cover pro sports regularly. They enjoy and do a good job of covering their local teams.
Look at the work of the esteemed Mr. Liddy. Chuck covers very little pro games with the exception of some hockey. But what Chuck does cover a lot of is top-level college basketball with Duke, UNC and NC State all within crawling distance. What he does with that is cover the heck out of it and turns out stellar work. He knows the coaches and players and knows what to expect in any situation that is coming up. Down by 2 with 10 seconds left? Chuck knows who the team wants to get the ball to and he is ready for it.
Same with GJ. He started at a smaller sized paper and now covers the "big" stuff and he does it well. And despite his complaints, he totally rocks that oversized (for him) red vest. |
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Jeff Stinson, Photographer
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Carlisle | PA | USA | Posted: 4:19 PM on 11.01.10 |
->> Thanks for the tips guys.
I'm going to work with college sports still, but would still kill to shoot a professional game.
And as for the 300.
I don't currently own, but have one at my disposal. |
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Chris Mackler, Photographer
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Cape Girardeau | MO | United States | Posted: 4:23 PM on 11.01.10 |
| ->> Jeff, whether shooting the "big leagues" or the local high school down the block, sports photography is all about capturing the moment. In my opinion, the local sports is where it's at. It's not at all about shooting the famous athletes. Shooting sports just to shoot famous athletes and rub shoulders with recognizable people is a cop-out. Local high school and college teams typically give photographers much better access, whereas pro sports put many limits on access. Start by contacting your local newspaper and seeing if you can freelance for Friday night's game. |
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Jeff Stinson, Photographer
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Carlisle | PA | USA | Posted: 4:23 PM on 11.01.10 |
| ->> Thanks for the tips George. Great ideas. Will definitely master what i have at my disposal. |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 4:37 PM on 11.01.10 |
->> Jeff,
You will have turned the corner toward true professionalism when you will no longer "kill" to shoot a professional game. That level of emotion comes more from the fan part of you rather than the photographer part.
--Mark |
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John H. Reid III, Photographer
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Gates Mills | OH | USA | Posted: 4:38 PM on 11.01.10 |
->> There is much very good advice that has been offered here so far. As someone who works with an NFL team I'll try to add a little.
A photo internship with an NFL team isn't very common. The Browns had a photo intern for a few years, they don't now. The photo intern rarely got down on the field to shoot game action. There were a lot of things the team wanted that required being in the stands shooting away from the action. Also, if you wanted such an internship, March is when you want to investigate the possibility, not November. It's quite chaotic at an NFL team's offices during the season, so the reception probably isn't going to be good.
I also do a lot of D III work. Beside the fact that if there is another shooter at the game (discounting parents) it's a really crowded day, there are no TV cameras, only one chain crew, no myriad of ball boys, etc., etc. The odds of getting good portfolio photos are probably better at a D III game than at a pro game. The reason one should want to be at NFL games is that the photos are more marketable. If you are giving them away it defeats the purpose.
Michael McNamara has some really good advice about finding a good spot and waiting for something to happen. I can't tell you how often I've wished I could do that at an NFL game. I can't take the risk of missing something. Back when I did a fair amount for NFL Properties (they don't exist anymore) I sometimes could, and that was when I made the best photos. The chances are still better at D III. The idea that one is going to go to an NFL (or MLB, NBA, NHL) game and make a portfolio shot just because it is a pro game is simply wrong.
I've been a judge in the Pro Football Hall of Fame Photo Contest a few times. There are usually a few shooters and a few editors. It's very interesting to note how we react to different photos. The shooters will often recognize the inherent difficulty in making a certain shot and react to that, which often leaves the editors unimpressed (seen that shot before.) The editors will react much more strongly to a shot that we as shooters might say "yeah it's a different angle, but so what?" The shots that win, of course, are most often the ones that get us all reacting positively. The point here is that editors aren't looking to see the same thing again and again (I'm told that editors really tired of seeing the wild-eyed Mike Singletary photo when he was a player.) Editors are the one's who hire. A great shot from a high school game will be stronger than a mediocre or even pretty good shot from a pro game.
The best advice is to shoot a lot and do the best at whatever it is. The rest follows, not the other way around. |
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Alexander Pylyshyn, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Newmarket | ON | Canada | Posted: 5:38 PM on 11.01.10 |
->> "Why is it that almost categorically people think just because you are covering a "bigger" event means you're going to get "great shots'."
This really can't be stated enough. I honestly avoid shooting pro sports unless it really is worth my while. It's a stressful work environment that just isn't as "glorious" as it seems when you're seeing people work down there.
What I do love, however? Shooting college sports up here in Canada (which doesn't get even close to the amount of attention NCAA gets down south, so if you're in the US think local high school attention). Almost complete freedom on the sidelines, freedom to get as creative as I want.
That's where you build a portfolio. Pro sports, on the other hand, is where you work. |
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Mike Janes, Photographer
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Attica | NY | USA | Posted: 6:31 PM on 11.01.10 |
| ->> Mark is 100% right, I don't get the feeling of absolutely needing to shoot an NFL or any big sport game unless it's the fan in you wanting it. My favorite events are not NFL, MLB, NHL, etc., in fact they are usually the ones I like least because they pay less, have a ton already shooting there, lot more restrictions, more people to deal with, traffic, expenses go up at some places, etc. Only reason to shoot a major sport is for a client, not portfolio building. |
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Walt Middleton, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 7:13 PM on 11.01.10 |
->> Jeff, you need to find what you are good at, what you enjoy shooting, and what you can make money at. These are very rarely the same things.
So, focus on your craft, take jobs that come your way. Look for jobs, talk with people, and take their critique. Then practice more to make images that don't look like everyone else’s.
Just remember don't ever offer to shoot for free or in exchange for a credential... This will kill you in the long run. Those that gave you that credential will never want to pay you for anything, ever... So essentially you will be making your prospective client list shorter every time you do it...
Oh, and putting things like this up on a public forum isn't the best either... If you have questions, ask people on here. Or even better develop your sources locally. That could also help you get local jobs...
Just my 2 cents... |
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Max Lashin, Photographer, Assistant
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Coral Springs | FL | United States | Posted: 7:27 PM on 11.01.10 |
->> Take a look at fellow SS member Dan Megna and his new gallery of pop warner photos he took this year. Every shot is just as powerful as a NFL/college game and yet it is little kids. It's definitely not about "who is in it."
http://www.sportsshooter.com/members.html?id=5432 |
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Joe Cavaretta, Photographer
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Ft Lauderdale | FL | USA | Posted: 8:28 PM on 11.01.10 |
->> Jeff;
I would say take a good look at this month's winners in the monthly contest here. Think of how many people have passes to NFL NBA MLB etc. etc., and look at the great photos that won. One college football pic, (not BCS) high school golf, kids rodeo, and some really lovely features.
Those are the kind of photos that will open doors for you and help get you to the next level. Maybe that will include the NFL, maybe not. There are plenty of great photographers who never shoot NFL games. (Heck there isn't even a team in LA, and there are some pretty good shooters in that town, so I'm told)
There are lots of great places out there to make great photos, don't let yourself believe they're inside an NFL stadium. |
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Randy Sartin, Photographer, Assistant
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Knoxville | TN | USA | Posted: 9:08 PM on 11.01.10 |
->> Having had just a little bit of pretty fast success shooting sports (and I have so far to go it's not even funny), this thread really hits home with me and greatly helps to illustrate a point I try to get across to other photographers.
All of the other discussions also remind me of this...After a long stretch of High School, D1, and NFL football a few weeks ago I was asked if I would be interested in shooting some youth football. Hmmm, youth football??? 6 year olds, you say???
The little devil on my shoulder uttered something about "Geesh Randy, you don't need to be shooting THAT stuff!" and for some reason I had enough sense to ignore him...absolutely the strongest football images I've ever produced, plus I've NEVER had that much fun on a football field :) |
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Michael Granse, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 1:04 AM on 11.02.10 |
->> Mr. Stinson, I have walked across a cinder track to pass between the posts of a chain link fence to cover football games that have had more personal and lasting meaning to me than any time I have spent on artificial turf dodging in and out of broadcast cameras and parabolic microphone dishes to shoot a game.
I have covered NCAA football games with 58,000 fans and NFL games with 60,000 fans in a domed stadium and neither of these groups generate as much noise and energy as 1,127 fans at a high school playoff game.
There is an emotional intensity of having the combined populations of two small towns gathered to cheer on their sons, nephews, or grandsons that can not be duplicated in the NCAA or NFL.
I get to photograph a high school playoff game this upcoming Saturday, and it is VERY likely that this will be the most fun that I have shooting football all season. I love photographing football at every level of competition, but it is the high school playoff games that always remind me of just how GREAT it is to have the opportunity to photograph such a sport.
I do hope that you get the opportunity to photograph the events that are on your "wish list" but I truly believe that if you love photographing football you will come to find that the level of competition is not particularly important. The field is 100 yards from goal line to goal line regardless of the seating capacity of the venue or the size and speed of the athletes on the field.
As for getting "great shots" at an NFL game as compared to other levels of football I will admit that the NFL does offer at least one advantage. When an NFL quarterback unloads a deep pass, the ball hangs in the air for about nine days which gives you time to find the intended receiver, lock him up, and start firing the shutter. The first time I covered an NFL game Brett Favre threw a pass that has not landed yet. |
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Jeff Stinson, Photographer
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Carlisle | PA | USA | Posted: 9:01 AM on 11.02.10 |
| ->> Thank you all for the positive and some negative posts and emails. I will definitely continue to to shoot HS/College football in my area. I hope i didn't come off as naive, i just really wanted to get that one experience underneath my belt. |
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George Bridges, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | USA | Posted: 10:27 AM on 11.02.10 |
->> Jeff,
I understand your desire to shoot professional sports. In this case, the NFL is the pinnacle of football and if you like to shoot football then, obviously, you want to shoot the best of the best.
While the advice that "you don't need NFL" to be a good photographer or have great images in your portfolio is absolutely true, it is also very easy for those of us on these boards, myself included, who have been-there-done-that to say such things.
Keep your dream alive of wanting to shoot NFL and use that as the motivation to keep improving your work, keep shooting as much as you can and making contacts that can get you where you want to go. |
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Jeff Stinson, Photographer
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Carlisle | PA | USA | Posted: 1:17 PM on 11.02.10 |
| ->> Thanks George. I appreciate it! |
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Manuello Paganelli, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 1:59 PM on 11.02.10 |
->> Jeff forget shooting those sweaty NFL players. Just go there and shoot the cheerleaders. That is what I did yrs ago, before you were born, and ended up dating one of the Atlanta Falcon's girls to the point that my paper's sports photo editor said, "you got pix of that girl again."
Now dont you think that is much more fun :) to bring home your own cheerful girl.
BTW you got plenty of great advices from lots of folks in here and Chuck nailed. He was actually nice to you.. most be the nice Caroline weather. You should see him when he is really piss off.
Been young or old it doesnt matter as long as you get it and put all those advices to practice. So keep on shooting and do the walk.
Good luck
More 2 Come
www.ManuelloPaganelli.com |
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Marc F. Henning, Photographer
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Bentonville | AR | USA | Posted: 2:15 PM on 11.02.10 |
->> One more thing to add Jeff. Didn't see anyone else touch on this one yet.
Cutlines. The most basic of fundamentals in photojournalism. I noticed on your member page you have some isolated shots of football players, cross country runners, etc. What are their names? Yes, it is JUST your Sportsshooter page. But you need to get into the habit now of writing thorough cutlines. Who, What, Where, Why, When. Gotta have it. You also have some basic misspellings on your member gallery photos. Read your cutlines at least three times. Or better yet, type them in Word or Simple Text, spell check and then copy and paste into your file info (something i never do, but really should).
Of course you'll see many veterans here without even a basic cutline in their member gallery, including yours truly. But, we get it done in our daily work. Since you're still learning it's a good habit for you to practice wherever you display your work.
Good luck.
marc |
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Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 2:32 PM on 11.02.10 |
->> Jeff,
There is nothing wrong to specializing in something like paintball!!
For example, I shoot the Shooting Sports like IPSC, IDPA and Multi Gun. There's not much competition in those areas!! Everybody and his dog wants to shoot NFL, NBA, NHL and MLB. Nobody I know wants to shoot IPSC, nor do they have the passion for it, know the sport or have the contacts to go to an event like the Nationals or the World Shoot (2011 in Greece)
I do
FWIW, in the world of paintball, I know Miguel Cruz, I actually went to High School with him. |
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Jeff Stinson, Photographer
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Carlisle | PA | USA | Posted: 6:07 PM on 11.03.10 |
->> Ah Miguel, yea, he's a older guy in the sport. Pretty sure he's stopped.
As for cutlines, i usually do as i do freelance for papers in the area.
Thanks for the tips!
Jeff |
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Brian Blanco, Photographer
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Tampa / Sarasota | FL | USA | Posted: 6:38 PM on 11.03.10 |
->> Jeff,
Another thing to keep in mind is that your grammar on this board, and on your member page, are every bit as important as your grammar in the cutlines you write for the papers you freelance for. Consider this board as your public face in this business. What you write here (and how you write it) is all most of us will ever know about you.
There are a lot of editors that read these boards and if they see you making consistent grammatical errors in your posts here or if they go to your page and see (as I do right now) poor grammar, then they'll assume that that's how you'll write your cutlines. The last thing an editor wants to do is fix grammatical errors in cutlines from a freelancer on deadline.
To be honest with you, irrespective of how talented you may be as a shooter, just based upon the grammar on your member page and this thread, I'd be hesitant to hire you for a job or refer you to a client. I don't say that to be mean. I say it so that you can make the correction and eventually be successful in this business. |
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Jeff Stinson, Photographer
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Carlisle | PA | USA | Posted: 9:36 PM on 11.03.10 |
->> Thanks for the tip Brian.
I will try to fix this issue. |
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Thomas E. Witte, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Cincinnati | OH | USA | Posted: 11:19 PM on 11.03.10 |
->> For what it's worth, when I first started freelancing back when I was 16 I was shooting HS sports almost exclusively. Occasionally after proving I was trustworthy I was allowed to use the unused Bengals and Reds credentials as well as the Miami University creds.
In college I kept the same deal, commuting back home on the weekends to shoot mostly the NFL. Through various - carefully selected - internships I put myself in position to cover the Pacers, the Packers and the good ole Mud Hens while also shooting a LOT more HS sports. I treated the HS stuff as practice and to work on my timing for the (in my head) bigger pro games.
When I started freelancing it took a long time to get steady pro/college work but I got plenty. I still however wanted more practice, so I continued to freelance for the locals for a pittance. Friends in the area would crack up when I showed up to a HS basketball game with two light cases and such but I was following someone's advice to me years ago....
"If you want to shoot for Sports Illustrated, you need to treat EVERYTHING like you were shooting for Sports Illustrated." The idea behind that is that you always give 100% whether you're shooting the Superbowl or a Friday night HS football game between Bumbletucky and Jefferson where there are only 11 light bulbs on the field and both schools aren't fielding an entire team. If you can learn how to pull brilliant images out of a game like that, shooting the pros is a piece of cake.
Oddly enough I've come full circle. Those of you who are facebook friends with me will recall a status update from about a month ago where I realized that over the past few years or so, almost 90% of my work for Sports Illustrated and ESPN has been high school sports. So I busted my hump to shoot the major sports for the major magazines and when I get here, I end up making most of my money from them shooting the very sports that everyone doesn't want to be shooting because "it's not big enough". |
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Jeff Stinson, Photographer
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Carlisle | PA | USA | Posted: 10:55 AM on 11.04.10 |
->> That’s some great information.
Thanks Thomas!
I’m using the un-used Penn State Football pass as of late, so I plan on getting some work there. I will continue to shoot smaller college ball around the area, along with HS football
As for the NFL, I’ll just wait until the opportunity presents itself, if it even does. |
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Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 12:22 PM on 11.04.10 |
->> "Ah Miguel, yea, he's a older guy in the sport. Pretty sure he's stopped."
Thanks for calling me old!! Given that Miguel and I went to High School together and are just about the same age...
FWIW, age gives us the experience and the knowledge. |
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David Seelig, Photographer
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Hailey | ID | USA | Posted: 12:58 PM on 11.04.10 |
| ->> You know I am older then ever but for the first time outrunning people down the sidelines at games how. I lost 25 pounds. Of coarse my shoulder aches a little more. |
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Aleksi Lepisto, Photographer
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Sacramento | CA | United States | Posted: 8:59 PM on 11.18.10 |
->> I've never shot the NFL, and rarely shoot "pro" sports, (just minor league baseball) but one thing that worked for me was making the right friends with people who can let you try stuff.
Instead of going through the route of contacting the organizations, I usually found good success talking to other photographers, and in turn making friends within the media like editors, who would give me calls to shoot things sometimes.
Sometimes, I still shoot for "fun," in that I don't have an actual client and I sell on spec to newspapers if there is something available. When I do this, I make sure I am 100% out of the way of the people grinding out the games for their primary income. The worst thing you can do is make other pros mad at you.
If I were you, I'd focus on college, since you have access to it. I moved to the Olympic Peninsula in Washington, and since moving I have been hard pressed to even get any interest to shoot high school or middle school sports, as the market is dry, or already occupied.
Usually "how to shoot pro sports" gets pretty heated, since a lot of people on this forum tend to react differently to that.
That said, if you really want to shoot NFL, I'd still try to make friends with people at local games and network. Usually, when I was younger and newer, people would laugh at me and ridicule me for e-mailing them asking to help them out, but as I have gone out and beaten them at their own game, I've made other friends with other pros who sort of "take you under their wing" and give you some really great advice and opportunities.
Just don't give up. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 10:30 AM on 11.19.10 |
| ->> www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=37247 |
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