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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
anyone thinking of shooting movie stills
Chris Large, Photographer
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Stew Milne, Photographer
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Providence | RI | USA | Posted: 8:25 AM on 09.29.10 |
| ->> Funny, sad and true. |
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Andrew Brosig, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Killeen | TX | United States | Posted: 9:19 AM on 09.29.10 |
| ->> What I love most about this industry is how people get insulted when you can't/won't work for the crap money (or no money) they offer. |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 10:37 AM on 09.29.10 |
->> It isn't just this industry, Andrew.
The secret is in the knows/no's.
Know your true cost of business. Don't be afraid to say "No". |
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Ian L. Sitren, Photographer
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Palm Springs | CA | USA | Posted: 10:43 AM on 09.29.10 |
| ->> Flattery is not a form of payment. |
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Michael Maano, Photographer
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Jacksonville | FL | USA | Posted: 2:34 PM on 09.30.10 |
| ->> damn, "404 not found" is what I get when I click on the link! |
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Jeff Lewis, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 3:51 PM on 09.30.10 |
->> "We love your work."
This is my vent!!!
I am so tired of people disrespecting photographers because they think all we want is credit and the chance to just be there for the experience. Makes us sound like a fly or a groupie with a camera. I have a daughter and one kid on the way later this month and have bills just like anybody else with a job. Ian is right. Flattery is not a form of payment and even more so, we need to be upset as photographers at the younger photographers just starting and messing up the industry with their Digital Rebels.
Anybody who offers me "Photo Credit" to further move my career along gets a big laugh from me. I have done it before and the client seems to also get a laugh because its funny, then as I turn them down and ignore them, they come with a reasonable price or are just left with no images.
I did this to a PR firm who wanted me to shoot Ryan Seacrest. They then called back the next day with something more appropriate.
At this point in my career and at this point in some of your careers, we really don't need credit or images for our portfolio to get better jobs. We need to become better business people and better entrepreneur's with the portfolio we have. Market yourself better and make your storefront or virtual storefront seem like to hire you, they would need to pay full price. Everybody else with a freelance job does it, why shouldn't we. Make yourself your brand, your company. You are the CEO of you and if you look like a business and act like a business instead of a guy with a camera, they might treat you like one.
Besides the money issue, have any of you noticed how disrespected we are when we work? I shot a few NFL games with the TV Networks and they get a full spread at games with a hot meal, break time, and everything. What do we get? A cold lunch box, placed far away under the stadium, and treated like we are fans who came up on a photo pass. We also get yelled at by security and by school or team directors to get out of the way when a VIP is near and standing in OUR territory. Do they do that for TV? No. The refs? No. Anybody else? No. We need to do something to change this and I believe it starts with us.
We need to come together and recognize that there is a problem. If I make myself better and dress better, and look more professional, what does it matter if I'm the only one and everybody else acts like snakes and we keep undercutting eachother?
Recently, I started charging people a premium price for me to shoot non-sports action events and portraits. A price where people would not even dare joke about free publicity and free pictures. It has worked and even though some pass me by, the clients I do get more than make up for the loss.
One more thing, Just because you have a camera does not make you a photographer but you need to make yourself stand out from the crowd of people with cameras if you want to get paid and charge what you are worth but back up that price by delivering a great product that they feel they could not get from anywhere else.
.... Thanks for providing me this soapbox to vent.
Jeff
http://www.JeffLewisPhotography.com |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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Chris Large, Photographer
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Okotoks | AB | Canada | Posted: 12:24 AM on 10.01.10 |
->> Michael - I just checked the link and it is working.
Interesting note that this was only published on SS and to a couple of other movie shooters and it's had over a thousand hits.
Very sad but very true commentary on more than just the movie/stills end of the biz. |
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Leon Bennett, Photographer, Assistant
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Irvine | CA | USA | Posted: 6:51 PM on 10.04.10 |
->> I truly concur....
We all love what we do, but some clients disrespect us by offering photo credit as a means of payment that will not pay the bills. I keep a day job with a great company, but at this time in my photo career I feel a full time Photo career is truly desired with being paid in full. |
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Michael Myers, Photographer
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Miami | Florida | USA | Posted: 6:49 PM on 10.09.10 |
->> Pretending that there aren't a whole lot of people out there with cameras (maybe to be called "photographers") more than willing to do photographic work for no financial reward, is ignoring the reality.
A lot of people take photos for no reason other than to show them off. If someone comes along as offers them a wider viewing audience, maybe even with their name beneath the photo, they'll be thrilled.
Anyone nowadays can pick up a Nikon or Canon and get technically adequate photos. If they do it for a while, they will probably get to where their photos are at least "adequate" for others, even if they're not "great". Many (most?) amateurs would be thrilled to have their photo published, and I bet they'd even be willing to pay for it (quite the opposite of getting paid for it).
If you were the guy hiring someone to take photos, and if you could get photos that were "good enough" from either of two people, one who offered his services for free, and the other who wanted several hundred dollars, which would you pick?
...........before answering that, how about if this was for something other than photography, perhaps mowing your lawn. One person offered to do it for free, if you put up a sign saying "call XXXXX for lawn service", and another wanted $200.
Hypothetical question - for anyone reading this here, who has not had any of their photos published in a major magazine, suppose someone from Sports Illustrated looked at a lot of photos from a group of photographers, and said "hey, one of you give me $20 and we'll publish your photo with your name under it, in the next issue". I suspect that most people here would hand over the $20 and the photograph. (I could pretend I'd do otherwise, but even if I know it's the wrong thing to do, I can see a lot of reasons for agreeing....... this would be pretty hard for many people to resist. The question is where to draw the line.) |
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Stew Milne, Photographer
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Providence | RI | USA | Posted: 10:29 AM on 10.10.10 |
->> Michael. I have had many of my photos appear in SI and other major publications, but even if I hadn't I still would not pay to have my photo appear in their publication. What would my $20 get me? Satisfaction of seeing my photo in print? I can think of better ways to spend $20 that will be a lot more satisfying.
I can see if you were a hobbyist or amateur photographer you might jump at the chance to pay money to have you photo appear in SI, but those are the same people that will work for free just for the chance to take up valuable space on the sideline of an NFL game, getting in the way of working (getting paid) pros.
-sM |
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Michael Myers, Photographer
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Miami | Florida | USA | Posted: 1:21 AM on 10.11.10 |
->> Stew, in that case I suppose I'm a perfect example of what's wrong with people.
I do know what you're trying to say. Way back when, I could only dream of getting photos into a "real" publication, and I submitted photos for free. Then these same publications liked what I did, and started paying me, and in not too long a time, I was earning a reasonable amount of money. (It's hard to get work until you've shown you're capable of doing well.)
As to the satisfaction of getting a photo into Sports Illustrated, I think I'd get far, FAR more satisfaction from that, than what you're indicating. If it was a good photo, and I liked it, and all it would cost was $20 to get it printed there, I can think of lots of reasons why I'd be happy to do so.
Once I had gotten a picture published in S.I., I don't think I would do it again for a second photo. So yeah, I agree with you about not giving away "work" for free, but that first image being printed in a National Publication would be worth more to me than a twenty dollar bill.
Skip over the hobbyist or amateur considerations, and look at it only from a professional viewpoint. Consider it to be an advertisement, getting your name known, and being able to show it to people later on. In that case, I'd consider it a wise investment.
Back to this discussion though, I imagine there is a huge percentage or reasonably good photographers whose goal is to be published, and to them that is far more important than being paid. As cameras get better, and the costs come down, I think this will get even worse in the future. |
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