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How did you determine your "Day Rate?"
Johnny Vy, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 2:18 AM on 09.01.10 |
->> Hey everybody,
I need some pricing guidance. I am wondering how you all have come to determine your pricing structure for different assignments. I know about fotoquote, but I'm not looking specifically for how to determine pricing for rights-managed photos (at least not in this thread) . Do you have a specific rate for a half day, a full day? Does this include travel within certain distances? Does it really vary by the type of event? How did you come up with your pricing guidelines? I'm wondering because I am being approached on a variety of different shoots, each of their own nature. For example, there is a potential client asking for a quote for working 10am - 8pm doing behind-the-scenes photos for a dance production. There is another client asking for family portraits on location at the beach. I have a specific price list for my weddings, but I'm completely lost when it comes to pricing anything else. What is a good place to start in determining pricing? Please feel free to reply here or contact me privately with any thoughts. |
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Patrick Fallon, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Delane B. Rouse, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | US | Posted: 8:48 AM on 09.01.10 |
->> When all else fairs (or you not feeling like doing a lot of the legwork yourself), just look at the websites of local photographers with similar styles and ability and price yourself based off their prices.
Portraits are most often a "creative fee" (formerly called the sitting fee) and then the cost of prints and/or digital files. You need to establish the duration of your typical session or the person hiring you might think the session will last 3 hours when you are thinking 60 minutes.
As a basic guideline, just figure out how much you want to make for 4 hours of shooting and 8 hours of shooting, knowing that each shooting hor typically has an equivalent hour of post-production.
I don't bill "by the hour", I roughly determine how difficult I think the shoot will be and create a fee that works for *me*.
How did you determine your wedding prices?
Delane |
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Johnny Vy, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 11:41 AM on 09.01.10 |
| ->> Delane, I came up with my wedding prices based on other local photographers' package prices. I started this thread basically because the wedding prices don't necessarily carry over well to other types of shoots. I have a specific price for "a la carte" sessions such as engagements that typically last no more than 3 hours. This price served as my benchmark for other shoots (unrelated to the wedding stuff), that I'm finding may not necessarily carry over well. |
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Bob Ford, Photographer
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Lehighton | Pa | USA | Posted: 12:36 PM on 09.01.10 |
->> Most people figure out their day rate by first figuring out their cost of doing business.
Total up all of the costs involved in you business over the course of a year: New Equipment, depreciation of older equipment, insurance, rent, phone, business cards, computers, discs, stationary, internet, etc... It's a big list.
Then divide that number by the number of days you realistically think you will work each year. That will tell you how much you need to make on each job just to break even.
Then figure out what you want to make for a days work and add that to your cost of doing business, and you have your day rate.
Some photographers are getting away from the term "day rate" because clients will expect to pay less if you don't work a full day. |
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Rick Osentoski, Photographer
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Martin | OH | United States | Posted: 12:54 PM on 09.01.10 |
->> Johnny,
If you are looking for commercial pricing then you need to do it differently than wedding or portraits:
1) First figure out a Creative Fee that is for your time
2) You need to find out what usage the client needs and base your price for usage on each job independently, fotoquote is a good place to start, then figure in ion your market, Philly is going to be higher than say Lehighton.
Make sure your client knows they do not own the photos unless they request a total buyout.
Editorial rates will be base on the individual pubs page rate and they typical will tell you that upfront. Some will pay a shoot rate and then the page rate others just the page rate.
Never give up your copyright unless you are compensated for it. |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 2:16 PM on 09.01.10 |
->> Johnny,
You need to know your costs of doing business. While one needs to be "competitive" at opening price points, using the market pricing without doing the cost of business analysis is crazy. Here's why: Many of the others haven't done the cost of business analysis and will eventually run out of money and go out of business. I have a local competitor in my other business who is now requesting that customers who placed special orders pay for it 100% up front. Why? Simple: He didn't do the analysis and he's out of cash and his vendors want it paid for before they ship.
So, do the analysis.If you have questions, feel free to contact me.
REPEAT: DO NOT SET PRICING WITHOUT KNOWING YOUR COST OF DOING BUSINESS. |
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Stanley Leary, Photographer
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Roswell | GA | USA | Posted: 2:42 PM on 09.01.10 |
->> If you base your rates just on other photographers prices you are just a commodity and the lowest price wins.
Think about it, you can get a oil change at Jiffy lube or Walmart for similar price. However if you have a Lamborghini you most likely will be paying couple thousand dollars for the oil change.
What's the difference? first of all they are two different markets. People who dive Lamborghini are not getting oil changes at Jiffy Lube.
Another way to look at this is like when you play poker. It is different than other games at a casino. You are playing the people at the table and not the house.
Tony Hsieh talks about this in his book "Delivering Happiness: A Path to Profits, Passion and Purpose." He realized once you learn the game of Hold 'em, which is about understanding the math side of the game over time you can do pretty well.
One of the biggest determining factors is who is at the table. If you have a table of good players you will not win as well at a table of people just playing for luck.
Photography is very similar. Depending on which game you get into can determine how profitable you will become. I think Sports Photography at college and professional level has a lot of knowledgeable people shooting with the chips in the game being very limited.
Other parts of the industry have not as many seasoned photographers at the table.
Bottom line you need to know what you have to clear from a job on average to pay your bills and stay in business. If you don't know this number then you are the sucker playing in Las Vegas with a bunch of experts around the table. You are going under and quick.
Once you know what you need to make, it is easier to then look at what parts of the industry can support your needs.
Some will just need to stay working there 9 to 5 job and shoot for fun. You may actually have a lot more fun than the guys earning their living doing photography. You get to pick what you want to shoot.
One last comments about wedding photographers. Other than the officiating person, the bride and groom and witnesses everything else is a luxury. Therefore you want to be seen as expensive in a luxury business and not a bargain.
You can brand yourself either as the Smart Car of wedding photographers or the Lamborghini of Wedding Photographers. You got a sell a lot more Smart cars to stay in business if you choose it as the model.
Out perform all the other photographers--not with your photography as much as your service. Take care of the bride and groom like no one else does and you can charge whatever you want. |
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Dave Einsel, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Dave Einsel, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Houston | TX | United States | Posted: 3:48 PM on 09.01.10 |
->> Side note:
ASMP just officially announced and opened registration for their business practices conference Strictly Business 3. It will be in LA, Philly and Chicago.
http://asmp.org/content/strictly-business-3 |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 4:47 PM on 09.01.10 |
| ->> Great post, Stanley. |
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