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The espn Attitude.
Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 1:20 PM on 08.31.10 |
->> "According to some of those involved, the worst part of Friday's prep football showcase on ESPN was that ESPN was there."
http://tinyurl.com/espn-tude |
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Max Waugh, Photographer
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Bothell | WA | USA | Posted: 1:39 PM on 08.31.10 |
| ->> Erin Andrews is in a Sony ad with Peyton Manning and Justin Timberlake that's aired for some time. Why is nobody mentioning that? |
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Kevin M. Cox, Photographer, Assistant
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Galveston & Houston | TX | US | Posted: 1:46 PM on 08.31.10 |
->> I like the attitude of Grant coach Mike Alberghini from the first post:
"It's the local paper and the local TV that put high school football in this town on the map, not ESPN." |
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Dirk Dewachter, Photographer
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Playa Del Rey | CA | USA | Posted: 2:28 PM on 08.31.10 |
| ->> Kevin I am with you, I cover quite a bit of local high school football and they (ESPN) waltz in here with an air of superiority like they own the place and that the world revolves around them pushing aside all of those that have been in the trenches for five to six years. Up till about two to three years ago, you never would see national television at any high school games, except maybe the championship game. |
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George Bridges, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | USA | Posted: 2:37 PM on 08.31.10 |
| ->> Though I would expect ESPN (or any broadcast network) to come in and give the big foot to anyone they can, I do wonder about the fact that they could demand what be on the benches and sent their own coolers, etc. -- obviously from a sponsor. What concerns me is that there are lots of small, local businesses that support the teams all year, season after season, and maybe they donated the current coolers out of their hard-earned money and here comes a multi-million dollar network kicking their contribution aside all for a $2,000 fee paid to the school. |
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 2:48 PM on 08.31.10 |
->> Going back on topic ...
Another good read here on the increasing national coverage of high school sports:
"Pros & cons of prep football media coverage"
http://tinyurl.com/prep-coverage |
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Joseph Zimmerman, Photographer
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Howard | Pa | USA | Posted: 7:06 PM on 08.31.10 |
| ->> Robert, we lost the #1 ranking this year. I don't recall who is but I think it is a southern school. |
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Robert Beck, Photographer
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Carlsbad | CA | USA | Posted: 7:32 PM on 08.31.10 |
| ->> UC Irvine was the #1 party school from 1974 through 1978...Or was it through '78? I forget. |
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Adam Cairns, Photographer
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Matthew Sauk, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | United States | Posted: 10:01 AM on 09.01.10 |
->> I really do not like having high school sports on national tv. We already have the little league world series where 12 year olds are on national tv.
I believe it is just to young to have that kind of pressure.
To be honest I feel we as a society are pushing kids to much to be #1 to do whatever it takes to win. I believe in winning, but sometimes it is just to much and you take the fun out of the game. You make it a chore. |
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Butch Miller, Photographer
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Lock Haven | PA | USA | Posted: 10:59 AM on 09.01.10 |
->> You're right Matt ... I think regular season HS games having national or even regional coverage is a bit much ... though ... if ESPN couldn't make money broadcasting such events, they wouldn't broadcast them ... so as long as there is a buck to be made ... we'll continue to see this more and more ... if the advertising dollars dry up ... we'll see less and less ....
The local cable company here does a "Game of the Week" coverage of area high school teams but it is not a live broadcast ... it is taped and broadcast several times starting Sunday and the rest of the week ... many of the advertisers are the same names you see in the program or on the radio, so it is all local money ... and the teams don't lose attendance because the game isn't live .... the kids do seem to enjoy the coverage ... but it isn't putting great pressure on them like a national or regional broadcast would .... |
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Jeff Stanton, Photographer
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Indiana | IN | USA | Posted: 11:00 AM on 09.01.10 |
| ->> Our local football team here in town was 1-9 last year and 0-2 so far this year. I don't think ESPN will be coming here. |
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John Germ, Photographer
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Wadsworth | Oh | USA | Posted: 12:39 PM on 09.01.10 |
| ->> Yes, sadly people seem to be putting way too much pressure on kids today. Where my sister lives, tackle football starts at 5 years old. That's sad and pathetic. I played football and love it. But 5 year olds don't need to be banging heads like that. They had to re-write how eligibility worked for some sports as parents were holding their children back in school not for academic reasons but for physical reasons. Travel teams are now the norm instead of the exception. I talk to parents who are so afraid that if little Jimmy doesn't start and stick with a sport from 5 years old on he'll be so far behind the others - and it's true. My community starts wrestling at 5. A 10 year old kid isn't going to be able to "try" wrestling and compete with other kids with 5 years experience. My friend has his 7 year old son in summer and fall baseball leagues. Sad that the pick-up baseball, basketball, football games I enjoyed as a youth are replaced by all this pressure to try and turn kids into superstars. I have a 4-year-old son and I really don't envy his sports experience - I think a lot of the joy is gone and it is much more job-like for these kids. |
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Rich Schultz, Photographer
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Stewartsville | NJ | USA | Posted: 1:39 PM on 09.01.10 |
->> I hate the boorish attitudes that ALL the TV networks have when covering sports. They pay the millions or in the case of HS football, thousands of dollars to cover the sports, so what they say goes. From the FOX cameraman who runs down the third base lines in baseball and blocks everybody else to the CBS cameramen covering golf and blocking everybody else so they can get their 600th different angel.
I was covering the Barclays golf tournament and in the first playoff hole Matt Kuchar was making his winning putt on the 18th green. His two-year old son came running out and into his arms and before you know it, a sat pointer, sound boom op, cameraman, cable runners, etc. came running onto the green, blocking everyone, thankfully except me. Do they really need to be in your face with their coverage. They have 10 to 15 cameras covering the green. What a joke. Complain and you hear "They pay the millions, so they can do what they want. I ask why. You can get the same benefits and "play nice" with others. BUT NO!! They're the networks and they can do what they want!!! BULL!!!!! |
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Wesley R. Bush, Photographer
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Nashville | TN | U.S. | Posted: 1:49 PM on 09.01.10 |
| ->> I wonder if it's ESPN directly or whatever production company their hired to shoot the game. There are a number of these companies out there. It may be one that was paying more attention to the product it delivered for ESPN than the image it was doing to them. Just a thought. Anyone know? |
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Kevin M. Cox, Photographer, Assistant
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Galveston & Houston | TX | US | Posted: 2:19 PM on 09.01.10 |
->> Thankfully in Texas there is a UIL rule preventing Friday night football games from being broadcast live. However as districts with a single stadium continue to expand we're seeing more and more Thursday and Saturday games and regional TV is taking the opportunity.
My biggest complaint is how much the live broadcast slows down the game. Last Thursday it took over 30 minutes to get the first 5 minutes of the game played with all the commercial breaks. |
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Mike Nelson, Photographer
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Puyallup | WA | | Posted: 11:34 AM on 09.02.10 |
->> Rich I’m with you. I was shooting the U.S. Amateur Golf championships this last week out at Chambers Bay.
When I have my media credentials around my neck I always make sure I have a smile on my face and try to represent the “working media” well. But these guys with the Peacocks on their hats wouldn’t even exchange pleasantries. A passing of “Good Morning” was following by a long stretch of silence. I don’t get it I thought we were all on the same team with the same goal. |
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Dave Prelosky, Photographer
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Lower Burrell | Pa | US | Posted: 11:43 AM on 09.02.10 |
| ->> Mike - nobody in the truck told 'em to be civil |
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Alexander Pylyshyn, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Newmarket | ON | Canada | Posted: 12:23 PM on 09.02.10 |
->> Sometimes I am thankful I shoot Canadian college sports that do not get nearly as much media attention as American high school and colleges sports.
However there is the odd time at our games that Rogers (the only TV coverage that we ever get for our teams) sets up, and I will often run into similar issues with the Tv personnel.
The kicker? Our school pays them to be there, not vice versa. |
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Mike Carlson, Photographer
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Bayonet Point | FL | USA | Posted: 12:25 PM on 09.02.10 |
| ->> It's interesting that some have taken to referring to 'adding pressure' to young kids as a recent phenomenon...now, granted, there are more channels and things are, in fact, changing, but if you weren't able to catch the ESPN broadcast (ironically) of "Little Big Men" on 30 for 30 (http://30for30.espn.com/film/little-big-men.html) it's worth a view. It chronicles the 1982 Little League World Series team from Kirkland, focusing primarily on the pressure felt by Cody Webster, and how that pressure helped form those boys into what they are today - for better or worse. An interesting view. |
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Butch Miller, Photographer
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Lock Haven | PA | USA | Posted: 1:19 PM on 09.02.10 |
->> Mike ... it's one thing for a youth to feel pressure while competing in a world championship event ... it's quite another for a regular season HS event ....
When such events are broadcast, as the OP links point out, ESPN (and/or the production company) was placing more emphasis on the broadcast itself and their own image ... not sharing the event with their viewers, not the game itself, not the athletes and coaches involved ... definitely not a LLWS or Olympic moment ....
The broadcast itself shouldn't be the end result that is foremost in everyone's mind ... it should be the event ... no HS athlete is going to develop character because he was provided with an ESPN water bottle ... or because his coach had to spend so much of his time dealing with the broadcasters instead of focusing on the game ....
If it is state playoffs or championships ... that's another issue ... that goes with the territory ... not the first week of the season ....
Oh ... and I was in the photo well at Lamade the day Cody and Kirkland won .... |
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Dennis Montgomery, Photographer, Assistant
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Ogden | UT | United States | Posted: 3:27 PM on 09.02.10 |
->> Have to agree you with Mike about that "Peacock" attitude. Last winter while shooting the halfpipe finals of the winter DEW Tour at Snowbasin, we had a still photographer in a red network jacket who was on the shoulder of the halfpipe during the event.
All the credentialed shooters were behind a "crowd control" fence in back of him and competing with the p/s and iPhone equipped crowd who had pushed down the secondary crowd control fence which was supposed to separate the general public from credentialed shooters.
"The Peacock Guy" was standing on the shoulder and almost every shot of a competitor coming out of the halfpipe at that point had him in it. I saw the lady who was in charge of PR heading down the ramp towards us and stopped her to request that she ask this guy to at least kneel down so we could shoot over him. (when I had asked him directly, his response was "no") She said she was going to tell him to leave and headed down the ramp for him.
She spent two minutes talking to him and told us on her return, "...he's with NBC..." before she went back to the top of the pipe. The rest of the event went exactly as what had transpired earlier. Instead of "ref butt", a large percentage of our shots had "Red Peacock Jacket" blocking the action. As he would walk by our postion, he would just turn and just smile at us.
It seems that NBC owns the event and can pretty much dictate where their people go, whether they are shooting video for TV or are "still" shooters. As bad as that was, the sheer rudeness and lack of consideration by the "Peacock Guy" was appalling.
I can't say ALL their shooters and people have that attitude, but if they do, it sure makes changes the dynamic of shooting one of their events and not for the better. |
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Matthew Sauk, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | United States | Posted: 5:38 PM on 09.02.10 |
->> I will end on this as I see it quite often these days.
Most of the time it is the parents that want little Johnny or Martha to be the next super star. Instead of playing with friends they are preparing for the next world series or super bowl.
I hate seeing that and I told myself I would never do that. Will my kid be behind those kids when it comes to sports later on, yes, but at least I know my kid is playing the sport because it is fun and not because I am forcing it on them.
/rant |
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 8:06 PM on 09.02.10 |
| ->> Robert, all true. In addition, I have seen them ignore football official's orders to move behind the media line to the point the official had to stop the game to deal with it. They also ignore direct requests from ushers, Fresno State officials and game officials to stay behind the media line on the baseline in basketball. They got in the way of ALL the still photogs and did it with attitude. I have no idea what production co. they use, but it seems whenever ESPN is there you can count on being shoved around and for them to ignore NCAA rules on field position. And they seem to get away with it! People just seem to give up when trying to reel them in. |
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Ron Erdrich, Photographer
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Abilene | TX | USA | Posted: 6:40 PM on 09.09.10 |
->> After reading this thread and the stories about ESPN covering high school games, I'm dreading them coming to cover Abilene High next Thursday. They're going to match AHS and a team from Florida for a non-UIL game. The only benefit I can see from this is that they're probably going to be bringing their own lights so it'll be a lot brighter than usual.
-Ron- |
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Sam Santilli, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Philippi | WV | USA | Posted: 11:59 PM on 09.09.10 |
->> My only experience with an ESPN crew was the 2009 LL SE Regional championshop game. (And yes Ron,the lights they bring are a big help.) The crew I had to work with was professional, pleasant, and fun to work with. They OK'd me being on the field during the game at the production meeting. The LL officials nixed the idea, even after I had shot every inning of every game of the regional from a designated spot determined by the umpires bfore the start of the event. As the official photographer I did get to pick my spot in the shooting areas for the champ game, which was close to where I would have been anyways, which the director from ESPN lobbied for me.
One thing I did was offer any help and advice to the guys setting up. They did not have a few things that I had, so I was happy to share. If the big boys are coming to your neck of the woods, put on a smile and be the first one to be cooperative. |
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 12:57 AM on 09.10.10 |
| ->> Update 9/4/10; The incident Robert linked to must have had some effect; the ESPN crew at the Fresno State-Cinci game Saturday night could not have been more cooperative with anyone they encountered, at least based on what I saw. Nice guys and gals all. |
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Armando Solares, Photographer
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Englewood | FL | USA | Posted: 1:11 AM on 09.10.10 |
->> I shot an ESPN televised high school game in Virginia last year and I did not encounter any problems. Everyone from the school was great, and everyone from the ESPN crew was great too. The lights being brighter helped. But not the downpour.
We had all access passes from ESPN so we were not bothered by anyone or restricted in any way. As a disclaimer I shoot exclusively for Venice High School, during football season, which was the visiting team that day.
I do know that the visiting media had just as much access as I did on the field. They had no problems covering the game.
Gatorade provided drinks and a sportswear company provided towels and arm bands free of charge, according to the equipment manager. I know the flight to Virginia, hotel, ground transportation and meals were covered by ESPN.
I guess every situation is a little different. |
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Ryan Coleman, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Woodbury | MN | USA | Posted: 9:50 AM on 09.11.10 |
->> I've shot Stagg Bowls where ESPN's hired crew (please read HIRED crew) was less than understanding of the photographers. They had a "we're the new media" attitude with me. Except I went straight online - I fear the internet is a newer media than television. But I digress.
After the photographers all grouped up and complained to the host committee and the NCAA, ESPN was forced to be one of us afterwards. Follow the rules, obey the marks and be courteous to everyone. I shot another four Stagg Bowls after that and don't recall another problem in front of me; except for the dolly that nearly ran me over twice in 5 minutes because staffers weren't doing their jobs.
If you have problems with a crew, I say go to the host and file your complaint. They are the ones who ultimately say if someone can come back or not. I've seen people evicted from arenas for the stunts everyone is describing. |
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Ron Erdrich, Photographer
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Abilene | TX | USA | Posted: 4:02 AM on 09.18.10 |
->> Just wanted to follow up, after shooting the ESPNU game between Abilene High and Florida's Plant High, I can say that the crew from ESPN were very professional and pleasant to work with. The only thing I noticed were the TV timeouts which did drag the game on longer. But overall, a pleasant experience.
-Ron- |
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Jody Gomez, Photographer
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Murrieta | CA | USA | Posted: 12:31 AM on 09.20.10 |
->> Matthew said, " I really do not like having high school sports on national tv. We already have the little league world series where 12 year olds are on national tv.
I believe it is just to young to have that kind of pressure."
Well, it's even younger now thanks to Sunday Night Football and Toyota. They have created Tiny Football http://www.toyota.com/tfl/aboutthetfl
"I talk to parents who are so afraid that if little Jimmy doesn't start and stick with a sport from 5 years old on he'll be so far behind the others - and it's true. My community starts wrestling at 5. A 10 year old kid isn't going to be able to "try" wrestling and compete with other kids with 5 years experience. My friend has his 7 year old son in summer and fall baseball leagues. Sad that the pick-up baseball, basketball, football games I enjoyed as a youth are replaced by all this pressure to try and turn kids into superstars."
John, neither one of my boys played football or wrestled until they got into high school where they both participated in football, wrestling, and track. My oldest stuck with football and track all four years and made varsity in both sports (and did well). He now attends college on a partial cycling scholarship (oh yeah, he wasn't on a cycling team growing up either). The youngest turned towards other sports (he was a national level downhill mountain bike racer) and is now participating in competitive cheer leading. He started cheer last year at 16 years old and not only earned a spot on a level 5 team, but went to Orlando for the Cheer Leading World Finals (a team must qualify for Worlds and be offered a bid). This year he is competing on the level 5 World's team again as well as a level 6 International team. There are kids who didn't make these high level teams who have been cheering since they were 5 or 6 years old.
My boys are successful in the sports they participate in because they enjoy what they are doing so they are motivated (on their own) to work hard at improving their skills and earning a varsity spot. So tell your friend to not give in to the pressure and let his kid enjoy his childhood. My sons are living proof that kids don't have to start participating in sports at five years old in order to be successful. |
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Donald Montague, Photographer
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Orlando | FL | | Posted: 1:43 AM on 09.20.10 |
| ->> great, ESPN is covering a high School game here in Orlando this week. i can only imagine how this will turn out now. |
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David Manning, Photographer
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Athens | GA | | Posted: 1:32 PM on 09.20.10 |
->> I find it to be hit and miss, depending on the individual. At a college game i covered last week, one of the cameramen were very nice, stayed back with the photographers and didnt block anyone so everyone could get the shot.
On the other side of the field, the complete opposite was happening. ESPN guy didnt care who's way he got into or what he did.
So i guess it comes down to individual employees of the Mickey Mouse Sports Network. |
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Jeff Mills, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 3:49 PM on 09.20.10 |
->> I think its foolish to associate any given attitude to any one media outlet because its going to vary more than anything on the indivduals manning the cameras.
I've worked with ESPN before doing production stills for their 3D broadcast and everyone was as nice as could be and tied to be respectful of everyone else there covering the game best they could. I witnessed no attitudes from them at all, just guys doing their job and trying to be unobtrusive.
I've honestly had more trouble with The Big Ten networks cameramen getting in the way than I have ESPN's. I wouldn't say that theres a Big Ten network attitude though because there are also some very nice and respectful shooters they have as well.
I don't know what the media situation is like in some other HS football cities, but based on shooting games here in Columbus for the past 8 years, I've never found a sideline remotely crowded enough where I felt I couldn't work. We've got the typical parents/GWC types, maybe a local network stopping out to get their 15 seconds worth, and maybe one or two other outlets and thats about it. ESPN could come out with 15 cameras and there should still be room for everyone and then some.
Hell, I'd actually welcome more broadcast networks if it meant they brought their own lighting. Bring in two banks of extra crane mounted stadium lighting like they do for a NCAA night game and I'd be kissing the ground ESPN walks on |
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Chris Pondy, Photographer
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