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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
OT: Free photos please
Rick Osentoski, Photographer
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Martin | OH | United States | Posted: 8:22 PM on 08.30.10 |
->> I photographed a cookbook awhile back for a health care company who teamed up with a local restaurant and bill them for the cookbook usage which was a fair price and clearly stated in the invoice the rights they would be granted upon full payment.
Then yesterday the restauranteur emailed me this.
"Hello! Can you check with the powers to be at XXXX to release the pictures they paid you to shoot on my recommendation of my food? I received no payment for my time spent on the book or no reimbursement for the food used in the photo shoot. Additionally, I gave them some pictures that they used in the cookbook. I would think that they would not have an issue with you making me some CDs of all the pictures you shot.
I have received some nice pr from the deal!
Thanks"
The agency was already aware of us before his recommendation.
I replied with this:
"XXXXXXX purchased a license for the image use in the cookbook and cannot use them or allow others to use them for anything other than the cookbook as we hold the copyright.
I do have the right to license them for other usage if you are interested I could give you and estimate for all or a selection for you to use them for advertising or collateral material. They have a one year exclusive for cookbook use.
Just let me know and I will work up a price for what ever usage you need. "
I expected a reply asking for a price but got this instead.
"Bullshit
Thanks"
It seems he thinks that his recommendation is worth him receiving 17 photos to use to advertise his businesses that are very upscale restaurants for free.
He was not happy with this so he contacted the agency client to see if they could send him the photos after I suspect being told no by me and the agency, who now denies telling him no.
The end client called and said that they paid for the photos so and thought that they owned them. I explained that I billed them for the usage they needed for the cookbook and even then gave them a deal in order to keep the invoice reasonable, If they had told me that they wanted to give the photos to another business to use for there advertising I would have billed more appropriately.
I don't see where it is my obligation to compensate the restaurant owner for his time.
So today I run into the account executive will shooting portraits for a youth soccer team I am associated with and she goes off on me for the way I run my business loudly and in front of everyone, luckily I know most of these people and she came off looking bad.
How comes every time we try to protect our rights as photographers and illegal usage we come off looking like the bad guys. You'd think as an agency they would know all about usage and licensing of images.
Just my rant I am tired of the I paid to use I own it attitude. |
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Michael Johnson, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Geneseo | NY | USA | Posted: 8:42 PM on 08.30.10 |
->> Sometimes its good just to rant....
With that said I like to head over to http://clientsfromhell.net/ from time to time just for a laugh. It reminds me that photographers aren't the only ones that deal with stuff like this. |
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Sam Santilli, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Philippi | WV | USA | Posted: 8:58 PM on 08.30.10 |
->> Call the account executive's boss.
Also, I hope you had less typo errors in your dealings with these entities. |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 9:25 PM on 08.30.10 |
->> Rick,
If it's any consolation, it isn't just you - it's the age we live in. People who think they know lots but in reality know very little - Add in a overblown sense of entitlement and you have what is commonly known as a modern consumer.
Let's not forget out and out lying, since that's a common negotiating tactic. It happened again Saturday. "No", I said " that's not correct" and then proceeded to correct their version to what really happened.
One of my favorite lines is "You don't work for free, do you?"
"well, no" is the typical response.
"Then why do you expect me to?" At that point you could re-explain what the customer actually got with the licensing agreement and that you discounted it significantly to help them make budget.If you can get them to see that you could have sold them the images, but it would have been at a significantly higher price and doing it the way you did was "better", you might make some headway.
As a Vice President of Consumer Affairs for a major consumer electronics company recently wrote me in a email, "Consumer advocacy always feels one-sided to me". There's no end to what people will ask for because they think they are "entitled" to it. Some may preach about great customer service, but there is a segment that believes it should get whatever it asks for - for free - because somehow they deserve it. Egged on by magazine articles that basically advise "b*tch till you get what you want", there's no finish line for making some people happy. Knowing what the customer needs and providing it at a high level in return for a fair price is customer service. Giving some clown whatever they want because they demand it - "I'll tell all my friends about what terrible service you have" - isn't good customer service - it is a poor attempt at extortion.
Ask the chef how many free dinners he wants to give away. And how many it will take to put him under. Then ask why he wants to put you in the same position.
In the words of Shakespeare "Mythinks he hath protest too much."
Good luck.
M |
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Eric Francis, Photographer
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Omaha | NE | United States | Posted: 9:55 PM on 08.30.10 |
| ->> For the record Rick, I don't mind your typos. It happens, specially when emotions are running. I'm sure your emails to the client were properly worded. |
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 10:03 PM on 08.30.10 |
->> Time for another look at an oldie but goodie.
Substitute "photographer" for "writer" ... Ladies & Gentlemen I give you Mr. Harlan Ellison!
http://tinyurl.com/harlanrant |
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Christopher Lawson, Photographer
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Littleton | CO | | Posted: 10:09 PM on 08.30.10 |
| ->> Bert - That Ellison clip *never* gets old. |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 10:25 PM on 08.30.10 |
->> Opps..
"Methinks he doth protest too much.." |
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Rick Osentoski, Photographer
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Martin | OH | United States | Posted: 10:50 PM on 08.30.10 |
->> Bert- that is exactly what I thought about when I got the photo call from the end client.
To think we tried to help them keep the budget down by not charging for the food stylist, who happens to be my wife and owner of the business. Even though they had chefs prepare the food she had to fix it up for it's close up. |
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Jeff Brehm, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Charlotte | NC | USA | Posted: 1:20 PM on 08.31.10 |
->> Sam:
It's "fewer" typos, not "less" typos. |
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Eric Canha, Photographer
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Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 1:47 PM on 08.31.10 |
| ->> Rick no good deed will ever go unpunished. |
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Paul Alesse, Photographer
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Centereach | NY | USA | Posted: 6:05 PM on 08.31.10 |
| ->> And the definition of "typo" is: a typographical error. So, "typo error" becomes redundant. |
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TD Paulius, Photographer
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Orland Park | IL | USA | Posted: 11:09 PM on 08.31.10 |
| ->> Methinks if you have not already, you had better go get an application on file with the Copyright Office to register your images, esp. given the reaction of the account representative. It will be the best money you have ever spent, just in case anything strange happens..... |
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Rick Osentoski, Photographer
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Martin | OH | United States | Posted: 8:04 AM on 09.03.10 |
| ->> Register with Copyright Office as soon as we saw there might be issues. We'll see what happens, the agencies client called and negotiated a price to allow them to share with the restaurant. |
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Mike Brice, Photographer
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SLC | UT | USA | Posted: 11:45 AM on 09.19.10 |
| ->> So how did it turn out? Did they pay to use them or should we stop by now an then to see if they have used them in an updated menu? |
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Thomas B. Shea, Photographer
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Pearland/Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 1:25 PM on 09.19.10 |
->> Michael Jonson great link, funny stuff, people are nuts.
Bert,
Great interview.
FYI,
I have been taping my contract client phone conversations lately and letting the client know I am taping .
I also go over the written contract with them. |
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Eric Isaacs, Photographer, Assistant
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Santa Barbara | CA | USA | Posted: 3:55 PM on 09.19.10 |
| ->> PJ, those are quite amusing - I also like the professional photography tips - very helpful in my quest to become extremely profitable: http://www.27bslash6.com/photography.html |
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