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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
? re: sports contract with university
Peter Buehner, Photographer
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Orono | ME | USA | Posted: 9:36 PM on 08.25.10 |
->> I have been shooting for a University for three years without a contract. Every year I try to get one and they say that they want one too.
Sticking point:
they want to use images to market the school. Makes sense, that is their goal and directive as media relations people. To them marketing is anybody, including SI, etc. that might ask for an image. They asked me to give up copyright.
I insist on retaining copyright to have the ability to make some money from the images should the opportunity present itself.
For non-staff photographers out there, I am wondering what you allow for usage. Can a local paper use the images? Is the contract wording such that no commercial entity can use the images?
Do you give up rights to the images as a non-staffer? I can't imagine so. I have had it drilled into my head since day one to never relinquish copyright and for the money I am paid, said yesterday that I was not willing to in this situation. I said that I would find out what others do in this situation because they seem convinced that sports photographers simply give up rights to the images after they give them to the school.
If anyone is willing to share what their contract says so that I can convince them that I am not crazy in my expectation (or show me that I am crazy) I would appreciate the help. You could send me an email if you weren't comfortable posting here.
as always, thanks for any help or insight. |
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Peter Buehner, Photographer
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Orono | ME | USA | Posted: 6:59 AM on 08.26.10 |
->> A huge thanks to all of you who have responded to me.
As always, SS has been a valuable resource. It is much appreciated.
Peter |
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Willis Glassgow, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Florence | SC | USA | Posted: 7:24 AM on 08.26.10 |
->> Peter,
I run into the same issues with many of my university clients. I allow them to submit photos of ours to home town papers for feature stories of the athletes, but do not allow them to submit photos to local papers of live action photos and national publications like USA Today, Time, Newsweek, SI, etc. The reason is somewhat obvious. MONEY. The home town papers, especially now have very little or no money and I see it senseless to fight and squabble over peanuts. The schools have similar feelings and we seem to agree on this set up. Let me know how it comes out. Good Luck! |
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John Strohsacker, Photographer
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Peter Buehner, Photographer
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Orono | ME | USA | Posted: 10:56 AM on 08.26.10 |
->> Willis. Thanks for the reply. I am trying to work something similar and even worded something like that as we were discussing the contract the other day. The media relations person then said okay then can we give images to the Boston Globe? My reply was I would love the Globe to run images as part of an article...but would love to be paid for the image.
They also said what if in three years we aren't sitting here and the new SID or medial relations person gets a call for an image. Are they supposed to know the limits of usage on the image that is in the archive? You can see what a big issue is...years of working without a contract and just dumping the images into a huge storage pile without any info attached.
John: thanks for that link. Not applicable to my situation but a good read for sure
Peter |
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Philip Johnson, Photographer
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Garland | TX | USA | Posted: 11:34 AM on 08.26.10 |
| ->> Let me ask what you may consider a stupid question. If you provide images to the school and they then provide that image to say SI, but in the medadata your copyright is there and information shouldn't SI contact you as the copyright owner of the photo before using it? |
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John Korduner, Photographer
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Baton Rouge | LA | United States | Posted: 12:23 PM on 08.26.10 |
->> Contracts generally have a hold harmless clause, and all sales have implied warranties. So when SI buys a photo, the seller implicitly warrants the licensing rights. Furthermore, in the event a seller exceeds it's authority, it will also promise to indemnify the purchaser.
... Consequently, as far as the purchaser's concerned, any subsequent disputes that may arise are between the seller and the aggrieved party. |
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Peter Buehner, Photographer
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Orono | ME | USA | Posted: 5:48 PM on 08.31.10 |
->> here is the reply I got after saying that I was unwilling to give unlimited useage to the athletic department and after telling them that I reached out to the community and that NONE of the respondents gave unlimited usage for images:
>Hi Peter,
I talked to ___. From our standpoint, we just can't in good faith guarantee that if you shoot for us, only what you want to be done with the photos will be. We would do our best, but 5 years down the road I honestly don't know who will be in this
office if it is not me and if they find photos on my computer what they will do with them.
I believe that the photographers that you heard back from did place limitations on the use of their photos. I also reached out to some of my colleagues in America East and what I heard back from them was none had any restrictions on what they could
do with the photos.
We have no problems with you doing whatever you want with the photos within NCAA rules, however, we need to be able to use the photos without limitations. If you are interested in tickets or some type of promotional opportunities so there is more
value coming your way, we could discuss this as well. Please let us know if there's a possibility we can work something out.<
Any advice on how you would proceed. The likelihood of capturing an image that is going to be worth a lot of money is slim. Am I fighting for this for no reason? Is this something that a sports photographer should fight for on principal (once I give in, they have a precedent)?
FWIW, this issue has arisen with the two photographers prior to me (over the course of 15 years or so)
Give in and grant unlimited usage? Walk away? I enjoy the job and have had a good working relationship with the school for three years. The only issue we have ever had is our annual attempt at a contract.
Thanks,
Peter |
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TD Paulius, Photographer
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Orland Park | IL | USA | Posted: 11:19 PM on 08.31.10 |
->> It is not uncommon for some shooters to place into a university contract a limitation on use of the images that extends to the years the athlete(s) depicted therein attend the institution. This can be as long as five years in the case of a redshirted player. It is indeed a burden on the institution to monitor as your contact alluded to in his response and typically the burden of policing the use of the images falls upon you.
However, the hburden can be significantly alleiviated if you enter certain data by way of PS or PM in the relevant cfield, indicating the image is only to be used by University X and not to be given to third parties, in effect notifying anyone who reads the File Info of the scope of your the license under which the institution purchased your images. Its a simple click for the institution to check so that would negate his argument of identifying the iamges as burdensome. Often, problems with third party usage occurs when the institution sends images upon request of an opponent in the relevant contest.
Good luck. |
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Alexander Pylyshyn, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Newmarket | ON | Canada | Posted: 12:31 AM on 09.01.10 |
->> In your exact situation, Peter. I worked last year handling photography for York University's sports teams with no contract (Canadian CIS so it's not as popular as NCAA by a long shot), and I had a shot of mine passed on to The Toronto Star without ever hearing about it until I saw it in the paper the next day.
It was a serious error on my part to overlook the fact that the images could have further potential to sell beyond my job despite the relatively apathetic fan interest for most Ontario college athletics. In any case, I am looking into fixing this issue for the 2010-11 year.
Given the fan base for college sports here, I couldn't have imagined the media cared about anything beyond the elite CIS football teams (really the only places I saw my images was on the school's website and in the school's volunteer student paper), so it was a big surprise to see one of Toronto's dailies pick up an image, of one of our soccer teams no less. Then again, I imagine it's hard for a photo editor to turn down a free image from someone that will take any PR they can get.
Alex |
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Peter Buehner, Photographer
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Orono | ME | USA | Posted: 8:46 AM on 09.01.10 |
->> Thanks again for the replies both here and private. I guess I am leaning toward granting unlimited editorial usage (no commercial sales)and then trying like hell to get my name and images out there first to try to sell them.
Peter |
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