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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
OT-Pac 10/Big 10 expansion analysis
Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 4:19 PM on 07.27.10 |
| ->> Great article on why the Pac 10 and Big 10 want to expand. http://tinyurl.com/25yl2lu |
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Robert Beck, Photographer
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Carlsbad | CA | USA | Posted: 12:06 AM on 07.28.10 |
| ->> How Larry Scott became the commish of the Pac Ten is beyond me. He is not even from the West Coast. If you aren't from here I would find it hard to understand the West Coast values. I would have been fine with the Rose Bowl staying out of the BCS crap. It's too bad that the bottom line is now a dollar sign. I am old. |
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 12:54 AM on 07.28.10 |
| ->> Me to Roberto, me too. |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 1:25 AM on 07.28.10 |
->> I remember when the Pac 8 was talking about expanding and skeptics were saying that they should instead dump the University of Arizona and Washington State and become the Six Pac.
This was a long time ago.
--Mark |
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Robert Beck, Photographer
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Carlsbad | CA | USA | Posted: 1:43 AM on 07.28.10 |
| ->> Arizona and ASU didn't join until 1978. Neither were members of the Pac 8. And see how much they helped? |
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 2:35 AM on 07.28.10 |
->> Hey!
Where's Fresno State? |
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Eli Lucero, Photographer
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Logan | UT | USA | Posted: 3:36 AM on 07.28.10 |
| ->> Fresno State is still in the WAC where they belong. |
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Butch Miller, Photographer
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Lock Haven | PA | USA | Posted: 10:59 AM on 07.28.10 |
->> "It's too bad that the bottom line is now a dollar sign. I am old."
I can relate .... it is all about money ... but, the menu for food served to the media at Penn State improved drastically when they joined the Big 10 ... ;-)
I would like to see the Big 10 expand to 12 teams and have a Conference championship game in football though .... it would add a little spice at the end of the season .. |
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Michael McNamara, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Phoenix | AZ | USA | Posted: 11:19 AM on 07.28.10 |
| ->> Butch, you realize that the Big 10 will have 12 teams a year from now, right? |
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Robert Beck, Photographer
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Carlsbad | CA | USA | Posted: 12:13 PM on 07.28.10 |
| ->> How does a conference championship add spice to the end of the season? It's just a money ploy. What's wrong with playing through the year for the championship? That Championship crap for two divisions (of only six teams from one conference) is just for money....Nothing else. I like playing every team in my conference every year.Big Ten? They don't even know how many teams they have in their conference.The kids who played in the pac ten and big ten played to punch a ticket to the Rose Bowl every year. The national championship was secondary. They don't call it the Grand Daddy of Them All for nothin'. |
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Butch Miller, Photographer
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Lock Haven | PA | USA | Posted: 1:17 PM on 07.28.10 |
->> Mike ... noted .... used the wrong phrase ...
Robert ... wow ... didn't realize it was so upsetting ... so I guess you would be against a D1 football playoff system as well?
While the venerable Rose Bowl is a significant and honorable goal, it too is a "money game" .... What is wrong with aspirations of being the national champion in D1 football? Other than the fact it is awarded based upon popularity in part ... and is the only NCAA sport that isn't settled on the playing field by a playoff system ... mainly because of all those traditional bowl games .... that in the end are only about money .... |
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 5:03 PM on 07.28.10 |
->> Robert H,
I am SO glad you asked that question. Where IS Fresno State? I mean, if Oregon State rates, why not FSU?
1) I know TV ratings are a huge influence in these decisions, and the size of corresponding TV markets also, but answer me this question; WHO in the largest TV markets (in the conference) of LA and SF is going to care about a matchup between Utah and Colorado?? NO ONE!
2) Ratings are driven by fans. Fans create the excitement, perpetuate the rivalries, and hopefully fund the expansions of facilities, etc. Proximity of the fans to the various schools and to each other helps this process.
3) Travel expenses can be reduced substantially by having 5 conference schools within a 5 hour bus ride of each other. Helps travel attendance... (Fresno State, Stanford, Cal, UCLA, USC)
4) Pseudo-rivalries already exist between USC/Fresno State, and less so between UCLA and FSU, but it's there nonetheless. There was a time that Fresno State and San Jose State was a wing-ding of a rivalry. Some of the best college football games ever played on the west coast were played between these two schools.
5) Fresno State already plays Stanford, UCLA, USC, Oregon and Oregon State on a regular basis and is always very competitive in a number of sports, especially football, the Big Money Sport.
6) Fresno State's compliance problems are behind them, graduation rates are climbing, and there's stability at the top now.
Expand Bulldog Stadium to 70,000 capacity and you have parity in revenue (Where's that upper level?)
Fresno State in the Pac-whatever... makes sense. |
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Robert Beck, Photographer
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Carlsbad | CA | USA | Posted: 10:45 PM on 07.28.10 |
| ->> Yes. It is upsetting. How will a championship work? Someone will always be on the outside looking in. They will still be "chosen" by rankings. It's just a grander headache that pays more. Give me the old Rose Bowl. Pacten/Bigten and leave the rest of the country wishing they could be here. Sorry I'm such a grouch. |
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 1:10 AM on 07.29.10 |
->> "Fresno State in the Pac-whatever... makes sense."
You have got to be kidding me! |
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 1:36 AM on 07.29.10 |
->> My old school FSU --- not to be confused with THE FSU: Florida State University --- is referred to by sports writers and ADs alike as "Probation-U" or "Litigation State".
In the past 15 years there have not been too many other Division I schools that have had as many NCAA violations, Title 9 (and other assorted) lawsuits and embarrassing moments as Fresno State.
(Anyone see the infamous scene in the very damaging ESPN documentary of a Fresno State basketball player wielding a Samari sword at teammates?)
When the top teams in the old WAC split off to form the Mountain West Conference they could not get far enough away from Fresno State. It was quite a slap in the Bulldogs' face that despite doing well in the big-three sports, they were not asked to join the new Mountain West.
(Heck, a lot of people speculated that Fresno State's problems was one of the things that spurred the split.)
So they ended up in a conference left with the San Jose States of the college athletic world --- once proud sports schools that don't have the money, media, fan-base and "juice" to consistently compete on the elite level.
(Fresno State is by no means a SJS...but that's what's left in the WAC, especially now that Boise is jumping ship next season to the Mountain West.)
Now don't get me wrong ... I attended Fresno State and have fond memories of the place and the sports teams. How many of you can say they photographed head football coach Jim Sweeney being carried off the field after winning their first PCAA conference championship in the 70's? Or personally saw the Bulldog's first 7-footer Neal "The Real" McCoy miss about 100 shots 2-feet from the hoop?
Fresno State is for better or worse one of those so-called "mid-majors" that aspire to be big-time. But try as they might ---following the rules and not following the rules --- they will always be small-time.
It's too bad. If they had gone the route of Boise State, maybe they would be on the cover of the SI football preview issue being touted as a National Championship-caliber program.
The PAC-10 wanted Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma State. As much as this Bulldog Faithful/Card-Carrying Red Waver wants, they are not PAC-10/12 material.
Phil: I admire your support of the program you obviously spend a lot of time with. But really, it's a huge leap to think that Fresno State would be in the PAC-10
'Nuff Said! |
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 6:29 PM on 07.29.10 |
->> Robert... great perspective.
I do not disagree with any of what you have said about Fresno State's problems; indeed, back in the day you had a basketball program w/ coaches asleep at the wheel, Samurai Swords, arrests, jailed players, drugee players, academic cheats, multiple sexual harassment lawsuits, abusive coaches on drugs, a basketball coach that was supposed to fix things quitting suddenly with a queer smirk, all true. The last 15 years has not been kind to Fresno State. But these problems are now behind it, and the litigation has all been settled as I understand it.
Maybe the stench in the room has not cleared fully yet; but tell me what could be worse than the problems USC has on it's plate right now? They will be 10 years getting over the legal problems and even more returning to competitive play. Two MAJOR sports affected... huge, huge dollars at risk... And my guess is they will stay in the Pac 10, stench or not.
Yep, Probation-U, Litigation State, all true. But I have been around the program for several years now, and no one running things now wants to talk about the "old days". They still trade stories about certain people during the "old days", and marvel that any of it could have happened. Yeah, Coach Sweeney stripping in the rain running around Anaheim Stadium (1992 Freedom Bowl victory over USC) was a bit much. There have been some embarrassing moments for Fresno. But the AD and basketball were the source of the problems that plagued Fresno State; football and all other sports have been very clean and competitive.
Maybe I am a bit of a fanboy in this regard, but you have no idea how badly people now in charge of the program want to forget the "old days". I still say that past problems notwithstanding, Fresno State in the PAC-whatever makes sense. Fresno has served it's sentence and has and is atoning for the past. Fresno in the Pac-whatever? 5 years ago, no; but now, yes. |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 11:31 PM on 07.29.10 |
->> Wasn't the Nick Nolte movie where he played a college basketball coach that goes "Bad" based on Fresno?
From a business perspective, I'd fire the college President because he's ultimately responsible and he's letting this stuff happen. I'd fire the guy for being stupid. She got $5M because they couldn't figure out Title 10 ?
Mr. Beck, you ain't the only one feeling old and possibly pissed off. It's all about money.. and the schools never complain since they love the big pay day. "Student athletes"... NFL farm system... nothing more or less. I still root for my NFL team and my college team and all that stuff, but .. my addiction is long since over. |
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