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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Shooting from a Biplane Bar Harbor Maine?
Jim Pierce, Photographer
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Waltham | MA | USA | Posted: 8:39 PM on 07.08.10 |
->> I have taken pictures from a float plane over Moosehead Lake and Northern Maine a couple times, but have a unique test coming up of shooting from an open cockpit Bi-Plane, a WACO for those plane enthusiasts. All I know is that I will be seated in front of the Pilot...
So I asked the cusotmer servive people about cameras, what elevation they fly at etc. The response was no problem you will get great shots....
Not that informative so if anyone has done this before any advice is apprreciated!!
I am thinking two bodies a 300/2.8 and a 70-200?? Or a wide angle?
We are going to cruise for 45 minutes...over 9 light houses, and Acradia National Park. I will be solo so can't see why I could not ask the pilot to customize this a little as well.
Any recomendations are greatly appreciated... no retakes on this one.
Jim |
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Matt Cashore, Photographer
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South Bend | IN | USA | Posted: 9:08 PM on 07.08.10 |
->> What kind of shoot is it? A Waco is not the best photo platform for air-to-ground--two wings to get in your way, struts, bracing wires...big ol' radial engine out front...but if the point of the shoot is advertising for biplane rides over beautiful scenery, then you can use all that to your advantage. The front cockpit of a Waco is actually built to carry two passengers, so you should have lots of room. Bring a fisheye & shoot backwards toward the pilot. You definitely won't need a 300!
Google Waco before your flight. |
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Erik Markov, Photographer
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anywhere | IN | | Posted: 9:09 PM on 07.08.10 |
->> I've been in a Stearman Biplane before, and Friday I just went up in a T-6 Texan. I really wouldnt take a 300mm, there is not a whole lot of room up there to manipulate lenses etc. Also, at least with my Stearman and T-6 and I think most planes of that age, your floor cockpit sides etc are open to wires and what have you. You can ask the pilot if you can take the 300 but I'm not sure how well it would work, with straps on and limited elbow room. The 70-200 would be good, a 1.4 or 2 extender would be good.
Considering you'll be flying in a historical type plane maybe I see a wide angle, maybe a 20 or even a 14mm, would be cool to get the biplane wings in with the lighthouse/coast off in the distance.
And however you are normally prepped for your typical assn, it could be turned on it's ear here. When I went up in the biplane, it was strap in and go. With the T-6 I had a flight suit on, then once I sat in the rear seat, I strapped on a parachute, and over that I strapped on the cockpit seat straps. Lots of straps, then once I had shot my first card, getting to my second CF which was in the pouch on my belt, under the flight suit and all those straps was difficult.
you can see the pics from my T-6 flight on my blog, http://tinyurl.com/2b5y5u6 |
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Jim Pierce, Photographer
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Waltham | MA | USA | Posted: 9:27 PM on 07.08.10 |
->> Matt, Erik,
The focus of the shoot is the light houses and air to ground. Would you bring the 300 for this? I have no idea, nor did the Customer service people know the elevation of flight.
I thought of the fisheye and will probaly bring that too... can lenses be changed in flight?
I appreciate any input!
Jim |
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Paul W Gillespie, Photographer
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Annapolis | MD | USA | Posted: 10:17 PM on 07.08.10 |
| ->> When I flew and shot in a bi-plane it was for a story about the pilot. All I took was a body and a 17-35mm if I remember correctly. I was strapped in tight to the seat, not a lot of room to turn. It was an open cockpit and when you raised the camera to shoot it would want to fly out of your hands due to the wind speed. I wrapped the strap around my wrist, pre focused at 3-4 feet, held the camera over my head backwards and fired away for the pilot shots. I also made some nice scenics from the plane. Not sure how I would have handled a bag and other lenses. Good luck. Here are some shots from the job. http://www.pbase.com/pwgphoto/bi-plane |
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Erik Markov, Photographer
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anywhere | IN | | Posted: 10:18 PM on 07.08.10 |
->> you've got the open cockpit which is a plus, but trying to juggle two bodies even in a maybe fairly roomy front seat can be difficult, and then considering if there is turbulence can be really tough. There prob won't be turbulence at all, but... Murphy's Law. At least for the times I've been up, however long you've got goes by really quick it seems. Juggling that stuff can distract you from shooting.
If you only bring one body and two lenses, if you have one, I would bring a long lens case that fits the 70-200. Best place to put it in my opinion is strapped to the inside of the leg near the calf, at least in my opinion. Should keep it in easy reach, but still out of the way.
Lenses can be changed in flight, you just have to be really careful. No doing it above the edge of the cockpit in case you get butterfingers and fumble it out of the plane. You don't want to drop it because there prob won't be a floor so to speak, so it will end up rolling around etc.
Elevation is the question. Also what their minimum safe distance in the horizontal direction is going to be. If their elevation is 1000 feet great, but then they have to fly a mile offshore for some reason that kinda sucks.
I would probably go with a 70-200 and an extender, shoot raw if you don't otherwise. Like Matt said, biplanes aren't the best shooting platform for standard scenic/vista type stuff.
Looking at my biplane pics, I have a tough time visualizing how you would shoot with the 300. It won't be shooting in front of you because you don't sit up with a view like in a car, you're kinda down a bit. Off to the side you've got narrow holes shooting between guide wires and struts and wings. Only possibility would be shooting slightly behind you off to the side, but depending on how strapped in you are, lateral movement might be kinda restricted.
I don't want to scare you off, go up and have a great flight. Weather looks like it could be decent for shooting. I hate to tell you absolutely no to the 300 b/c you very well could find a shot for it. But I'd hate to see you miss out on a lot of other good stuff because you're fumbling with trying to control that during flight. |
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Butch Miller, Photographer
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Lock Haven | PA | USA | Posted: 12:34 AM on 07.09.10 |
->> "I've been in a Stearman Biplane before"
Same here .. it was ok in the Stearman, but the cockpit is definitely tight for working two bodies. And I wouldn't even consider horsing around a 300 f2.8 in a space like that ... I much more prefer a J3 or J4 Piper Cub with the doors flipped open ... since I live in the former home of Piper Aviation .. there is a good supply of those models on hand ....
I usually take two bodies, one with a 24-70 on a full frame body or a 17-55 on a crop body and a 70-200 on the second body ... if you have a good pilot that knows what you need they can get you the angles you need for some great shots ... just explain to them what you want before you go up and the angles that will work best for you ....
Good luck and hope you enjoy the flight ... that's some awesome country side in Bar Harbor .... |
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Harrison Shull, Photographer
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Fayetteville, WV | Asheville, NC | | Posted: 6:49 AM on 07.09.10 |
->> Matt is right on... front seat of any biplane is going to be right in the middle of wings, wires, braces, and other junk. It is not a good place to shoot from for air-to-ground shots. However, shooting forwards and backwards within the aircraft with superwide lens can be very cool.
-The cockpit on these biplanes is fairly "deep." Getting up high enough to shoot down around the fuselage onto lighthouses might be tough. Talk with the pilot and see if he can roll the plane for you to get a better angle.
-Watch out for vibrations. That big ole radial engine is going to seemingly try and shake that plane apart. Isolate your body from the airframe and shoot at high shutter speeds.
-Since you are so far forward in the plane, you are going to need to shoot quartering to the rear. Make sure your pilot knows this so he can plan his passes at the right altitude, attitude, and heading to get you the right angle.
-Make sure that you debrief your pilot prior to the flight as to what exactly you want so he can get you where you want. And LISTEN to everything he has to say about sasfety do's and dont's. Safety is key
Have fun!!! |
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Mariano Rosales, Photographer
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Montgomery | IL | USA | Posted: 5:49 PM on 07.11.10 |
->> I shoot around planes a lot so here are my recommendations. Above all, keep it simple. Everyone above is dead on about cables and what-not running around the cockpit, plus you'll have a bunch of leavers and switches around that you will need to avoid if you want you're pilot to be able to control the plane. Switching lenses in an open-cockpit plane is not a good idea for two reasons: you could drop something INSIDE the airplane blocking the controls or something else really important, and you are inviting a ton of dust that's blowing all around you to settle in your camera body. The sides do sit rather high and they'll probably have you strapped in your seat nice and tight so expect limited movement. In that cockpit smaller lenses & bodies are best, leave the hoods in the car, and the 300/2.8 is definitely out!
If you need something specific don't be afraid to ask your pilot. Want lower or higher, closer/further, east side for better light angle, etc. Most of those guys are pretty laid back and will do what they can to help.
Hopefully I'm not too late with this advise. Have a good time! Those are fun airplanes! |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 6:04 PM on 07.11.10 |
->> Hearing protection. Earplugs under the headset.
--Mark |
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
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| | | Posted: 7:47 PM on 07.11.10 |
->> Jim,
First off, what Waco? Waco has made MANY different models of bi-planes. The first ones rolled out in 1919 with the last one being rolled out in 1947. The popular Waco Y series aircraft were made in the 1930s and were revived by the Waco Classic Aircraft Company sometime in the mid-80s.
If you're flying in a Waco Classic YMF your vantage point for shooting light houses from the front seat will be severely limited. You'll be positioned under the wing, the only vantage point for any clean shots will require you to almost be standing up looking backwards.
If this is a serious shoot and not a joy ride, I'd strongly suggest looking at a different aircraft as a shooting platform. |
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Paul Calhoun, Photographer
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Hillsborough | NC | U.S. | Posted: 9:03 PM on 07.11.10 |
->> No experience from a Waco but a fair amount of experience from helicopters, hot-air balloons, para-sails and variety of small planes.
Definitely would not want to be changing lenses, way too many things to go wrong and shots to be missed. If you have room go for three bodies and lenses, fish eye or wide angle to the 70-200. Preset everything you can for ISO, aperture, shutter speed. Consider fill flash for photos showing pilot and parts of plane. Leave everything else at the airfield or make sure it is in a secure case or bag so it can't possibly blow out of the cockpit.
Go for highest shutter speed you can get without overdoing ISO. In addition to vibration you have to watch out for ground blur if you are moving fast and/or if you are at very low altitude. You can use that to artistic effect on some subjects by panning, but for fixed structures air-speed movement will soften everything if you aren't careful.
Wear hearing protection. Use a helmet mic to communicate with the pilot- waving and pointing aren't as effective as you might think.
Plot your strategy for time of day and sun position to get plane shadow where you want it for effect or keep it out of photos entirely. Try to catch a low-humidity day if you want clarity or a max-humidity day for strong sunsets.
Have fun!
paul |
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Jim Pierce, Photographer
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Waltham | MA | USA | Posted: 3:37 PM on 07.13.10 |
->> Thanks for the input everyone but got Fogged out today. trying to get something for tomorrow....This was a pure enjoyment ride no clients etc.... so if i don't get it tomorrow I have a great reason to come back. A beautifull place, great hotel, and great people.
Just got back from Acadia but again fog fog fog. Still haveing a great time, relaxing!!
Jim |
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Gene Boyars, Photographer
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Matawan | NJ | United States | Posted: 7:42 AM on 07.14.10 |
| ->> Foggy mornings in Bar Harbor are pretty common. Hope you get your ride, nothing like flying with the wind in your face. |
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Harrison Shull, Photographer
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Fayetteville, WV | Asheville, NC | | Posted: 8:09 AM on 07.14.10 |
| ->> Mariano.... looks like your icon is the cockpit view from a two-place Quicksilver MX? |
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Mariano Rosales, Photographer
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Montgomery | IL | USA | Posted: 5:58 PM on 07.15.10 |
| ->> Good eye, Harrison. Bring a 300mm 2.8L on that flying lawnchair and it will pull it out of the sky! :-) Biplane or ultralight, flying open-cockpit in any airplane is a blast! |
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Harrison Shull, Photographer
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Fayetteville, WV | Asheville, NC | | Posted: 9:04 PM on 07.15.10 |
| ->> Nice! I have an Airborne Edge-X trike that is registered as an ELSA. There is nothing like the "low-and-slow" experience that these open cockpit palnes provide. |
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