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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
The state of sports info jobs
Matt Barton, Photographer
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Lexington | KY | USA | Posted: 4:47 PM on 07.07.10 |
->> Ran across this ad for a sports information photographer at a major university and thought I should share. Are these standard terms for college gigs now? I'm curious to hear from other sports info shooters. These terms sound a little harsh to me.
Subject: Open Position - Work-For-Hire Photographer
The COLLEGE Athletics Department is seeking an Independent Contractor to serve in a work-for-hire capacity as photographer. This position will report to the Associate Athletic Director for Media Relations. The photographer will manage and be responsible for all photography for the COLLEGE Athletics Department. The photographer will be responsible for shooting and/or staffing all home games and producing photos for COLLEGE Athletics' usage in a timely manner. Select away games for men's basketball and football will also be included in the annual schedule. All photos will be available for COLLEGE Athletics use and full copyright will be owned by the COLLEGE Athletics Department. In addition to game responsibility, the photographer will be responsible for scheduling and shooting/staffing photo shoots for COLLEGE publications, producing head shots and photo day for each of the school's 22 varsity sports. Salary will be commensurate with experience and office space is provided. Photographer must provide their own equipment and term is for 12 months renewed annually. The position will remain open until filled. Please send resume, work samples and references to.... |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 5:03 PM on 07.07.10 |
| ->> I know a couple of folks that do this....and yup....those are usually the terms (except for the equipment part) and the salaries are pretty close to about $3 and hour when you add up all the hours to service all those demands. of course you do get to eat the free food in the media rooms....that is if they haven't cut the food out of their budgets.....but hey...you get to get in all the games FREE and be a really cool sports shooter!!!! |
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Danny Munson, Photographer
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San Dimas | Ca | United States | Posted: 5:08 PM on 07.07.10 |
| ->> I'm surprised they offer a salary at all. They could just offer it as a non-paying position and still get flooded with applicants. |
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Debra L Rothenberg, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 5:49 PM on 07.07.10 |
| ->> ..and this is different than A LOT of staff newspaper positions how?? |
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Gene Boyars, Photographer
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Matawan | NJ | United States | Posted: 6:02 PM on 07.07.10 |
| ->> It says salary but it also says independent contractor. Independent contractors don't get salaries, don't get benefits, don't get taxes withheld, don't get half of their social security and medicare taxes paid and can negotiate ownership of images. There is a world of difference between being an independent contractor and an employee. |
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Matt Cashore, Photographer
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South Bend | IN | USA | Posted: 6:04 PM on 07.07.10 |
| ->> Need more info before I pass judgement. What's the salary range? Is the college in a cheap part of the country or not? Away games are on the college's dime or photog's? Extra shooters come out of the college budget or photog's? Any possibility of the photog pocketing a percentage of print sales? It could potentially be a fairly good gig...not enough info from the ad alone to say for sure, though. |
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Will Powers, Photographer
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Denver | CO | USA | Posted: 6:51 PM on 07.07.10 |
| ->> The IRS would question giving the photographer office space. As I understand the law, that usually indicates that the photographer is an employee. |
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Matt Brown, Photographer
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Fullerton | CA | USA | Posted: 7:00 PM on 07.07.10 |
| ->> 90% of all sports information photographer are like this one. Pay is low and hours are long. Staff newspaper positions have days off and paid vacations. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 8:04 PM on 07.07.10 |
| ->> Debra, BAD GIRL!!! 8) I'll give you a pass on that comment. Even when I worked at a weekly newspaper (a million years ago) the terms I worked under were a LOT better than what Matt posted. |
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
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Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 8:38 PM on 07.07.10 |
->> I think the point is, a million years ago the terms were nothing like they are today anywhere, oh Chuck the Elder...
This is one of two things:
- a clueless lawyer draws up a typically one-sided position description and the equally cluelesss athletic department doesn't know what this means;
- this is an intentionally one-sided arrangement that shows the athletic department puts absolutely no value in its employees and simply exploits people as thoroughly as possible - "because they can." |
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Debra L Rothenberg, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 9:21 PM on 07.07.10 |
->> Chuck...{{SWAK}}}
sealed
with
a
kiss
:):):) |
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Matt Barton, Photographer
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Lexington | KY | USA | Posted: 11:09 PM on 07.07.10 |
->> There used to be a time when they would at least pay your health insurance, SS, etc. Now they seem to go out of their way to take advantage of people. No benefits, no gear, no budget for staff, no share of print sales, no job security with 60 hour weeks that are mostly nights and weekends. For all you guys thinking it MIGHT be worth it for the right salary, I heard they are offering the equivalent of a nice Japanese car. (Not Lexus)
Frankly, the guys who mow the football fields have better deals. |
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Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 11:50 PM on 07.07.10 |
| ->> I don't know about some folks out there, but I do this to pay for Food, Clothing and Shelter, this description sucks!! Back in the old days I freelanced for a newspaper in New England for $65 per day, not bad for 1987... |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 12:15 AM on 07.08.10 |
->> Deb,
don't go around smacking Chuck. He LIKES it.,.... |
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Debra L Rothenberg, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 12:36 AM on 07.08.10 |
->> Michael,
I know-he told me :) (but it's SWAK, not SMACK :)
shhh, don't tell anyone. We are having a SS love affair-could it be SS first love child? (can't remember if he is Nikon or Canon?) |
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Nick Doan, Photographer, Assistant
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Scottsdale | AZ | USA | Posted: 4:17 AM on 07.08.10 |
->> Let's say there are 8 home football games, 15 home basketball games, a couple of dozen home games for the other sports. so say 48 or 50 home games for all the sports not counting the Bowl Games or ESPN games that the university is asking you for... Then there are the head shots, media guide shots, marketing shots, etc.
Let me ask you guys a question...
would you take a buyout for dayrate at $500 per shoot? If you shot 100 events (counting the headshots or media guides or whatever), that would be $50000.
At $400 per shoot? at $300 per shoot?
what is the limit that turns this job from something you are derisive about into a worthwhile job?
(Okay, so that was more than one question, sue me!) |
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Jim OConnor, Photographer
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Scotch Plains | NJ | USA | Posted: 9:46 AM on 07.08.10 |
->> To Nick's question - I believe the going rate for a sporting event is $250 - $300 per shoot. For a Div I school I think you can expect 35 - 50 events for the year.
That's a range of $8750 - $15000 |
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Andrea Ranalli, Photographer
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Rome | RM | Italy | Posted: 1:00 PM on 07.08.10 |
| ->> I'll be more than happy to find a job of this kind in Italy at this time... |
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Alexander Pylyshyn, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Newmarket | ON | Canada | Posted: 1:50 PM on 07.08.10 |
->> This is the type of job I had last year (as a student, mind you). I am not returning to it for many of the reasons listed above, the money I made from it was insignificant in comparison to the hours I had to work shooting the games and editing the photos.
It was a great start for me, however, a lot of experience and a lot of it was quite enjoyable (especially when the department agreed to rent out a 400 2.8 for me for every second football game).
Nice one year job for a student but nothing more. |
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Thomas B. Shea, Photographer
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Pearland/Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 3:48 PM on 07.08.10 |
->> As a University Photographer for a Div 1 school for 10 years I can tell you that the Sports ISD almost always hire a contract photographer for their sports needs. The only schools I know that use the University Photographers to shoot sports are the University of Michigan and Duke University. LSU and UT have their own staff sports photographers with benefits and salary and use equipment provided by the school. I don't know of any contract photographers that travel with the team, it is much less expensive to hire a freelancer at the visiting field.
The average salary for University photographers is about $40,000, the average payment for freelance Sports ISD photographer is about $18,000.
I shoot sports for the marketing and advancement when assigned a big game. Sports ISD has access to those photographs because I am being paid by the state to take the pictures, therefore Sports ISD may use the photos when ever they choose.
If you shoot for a University as a staff or freelance, the school will always keep full copyright of the photos. In sense whether Staff or Contract you will be working for hire. |
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
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Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 2:01 AM on 07.10.10 |
| ->> Thomas - not true about the school always keeping the copyright. I shoot freelance for a Division I school, most home games and a few road contests, and own all of my images. All depends on what you can work out with them. Granted, it wasn't easy. |
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Mike McLaughlin, Photographer
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Neptune City | NJ | USA | Posted: 2:25 AM on 07.10.10 |
| ->> Second on Chuck's post. I shoot for a few universities and none of them are work for hire arrangements, I own the copyright. |
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Thomas B. Shea, Photographer
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Pearland/Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 10:14 AM on 07.11.10 |
| ->> That is awesome Chuck and Mike. What you have is a very rare situation. Great job handling that in your negotiations. |
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Butch Miller, Photographer
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Lock Haven | PA | USA | Posted: 12:15 PM on 07.11.10 |
->> Work for Hire can be quite different depending upon the situation and the agreement reached between the photographer and client.
If you accept the job as an "Independent Contractor" the rules for the photographer to retain some or all copyrights to the resulting images is much more liberal.
OTOH ... works created by an "employee" within the scope of his or her employment is automatically considered a work for hire where quite often the photographer cannot retain any rights to the works except use in a personal portfolio to show prospective employers as part of a job interview process.
This web page offers more details on the Work for Hire Doctrine:
http://www.copylaw.com/new_articles/wfh.html |
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