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Vivitar 285 hv for arena lighting
Radu Rosca, Photographer
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Tirgu Mures | MS | Romania | Posted: 8:04 AM on 06.26.10 |
->> First of all, hello everybody. Even though this is not my first post on the forum, i'm a new member here. A lurker for the past 2 years or so, saved the $25, applied for the membership and here i am.
Anyway i was wondering if any of you could give some advises on how to use speedlites to lit an arena. I just bought some vivitars and i'm planing to use them on basketball (basically 2 for half of court). I don't have a lot of experience with this, up until now i used a single 430 at 1/2 power and 105mm but wasn't quite satisfied with the results. The arena i'm shooting at is quite small, about 2,500 seats with a heigth of about 20 meters i'd say. The flashes would be placed on the corner of the arena at about 10 meters from the hoop. The ambient light over there is terrible. To get a good exposure in that light i would have to shoot at 2.8, 1/320, ISO1250. What i'm aiming to is to get a better light to lower the ISO.. let's say f4, 1/250 ISO500 would be awesome. How would you set your flashes for that? (power, zoom, direction)
And yes, i've read a lot of articles on this topic but didn't find a lot of info on what's the bst way to use flashes. :)
Thanks in advance! |
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Radu Rosca, Photographer
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Tirgu Mures | MS | Romania | Posted: 8:21 AM on 06.26.10 |
| ->> This is what the arena looks like http://www.bcmures.ro/galerie/thumbnails.php?album=10 and the flashes will be placed one above the small scoring table (see the top left corner in the first image on the second row) and the other one in the opposite corner |
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Kevin Novak, Photographer, Assistant
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Nik Habicht, Photographer
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Levittown | PA | USA | Posted: 9:29 AM on 06.26.10 |
->> A couple of thoughts: More strobes = better light. I lit many a dungeon of a high school gym with 4 283s, two on each side spread maybe 10-20 feet apart, the first in line with the hoop, but higher, the second strobe a little lower and downcourt.
It also looks like you might be able to shoot from above the hoop -- off to one side -- at one end of the court? That's worked for me in some gyms too -- because the player's faces are looking up and getting lit by the ceiling lights. Shoot that with long glass, and the lights and angle can make for a different look at basketball... |
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Curtis Clegg, Photographer
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Radu Rosca, Photographer
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Tirgu Mures | MS | Romania | Posted: 10:20 AM on 06.26.10 |
->> Kevin, thanks for the link, i read those stories some time ago and forgot about them!
Nik, 4 flashes for half of court? What settings have you used on them? |
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Eric Tom, Photographer
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Redlands | CA | USA | Posted: 4:59 PM on 06.26.10 |
->> Before trying out 4 strobes, which is a great idea of you can work it logistically, I would start with the 2 you already have.
I am by no means an arena lighting expert, but what has worked for me is to place each strobe near the corners of the court and aim them towards the top of the key. Set each to its widest setting (35mm on 285HV) and they should still cover you at the net. Power wise, I would aim for the lowest power setting on the strobe that will keep your ambient exposure out of the picture. (lowest power for best recycle time, usually 1/4 for me but this will vary) Aperture and ISO to your taste of course. |
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Randy Sartin, Photographer
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Knoxville | TN | USA | Posted: 9:49 PM on 06.26.10 |
->> I also set them in the corners and aim towards top of key. I like mine pretty far behind the baseline (so they do not show in the frame when I'm sitting near baseline shooting the basket) and get them as high as I can, at least 13 feet or so.
I've also used pretty much the same setup with 4 flashes, with two on each stand. Aim one of the two a little more towards the basket and the other a little more towards mid court. |
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Thomas E. Witte, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Cincinnati | OH | USA | Posted: 3:57 AM on 06.27.10 |
->> Radu- Considering it looks like they used some sort of hyper hi-gloss varnish on the floor, if you use 4 strobes, just use two at a time (shoot one end then change sides at the half (if you're covering one team)) to avoid glare off the floor.
Curtis linked a tutorial I wrote several years ago (have no fear, an new website is a few months away) that applies very well to this arena. I'm assuming you're talking about a temporary set up, in which case putting the strobes on that second floor somewhere would be quick and dirty. However, you'll have that glare I mentioned if you don't get them higher up on the opposite side of the court. IF you can get them in the rafters, that would be ideal, but it would also make quick set up very tough.
You could leave them up there permanently with AC power though. The simplest way to do this would be to get about three hundred feet of heavy gauge extension cord then tie the AC power in to that cord forming a giant question mark (a big U in the rafters with one end dropping down somewhere secure yet accessible, where you'll plug it when you need them. This place -MIGHT- have dedicated circuits already installed in the rafters, if that's the case, it would negate the need for the extension cords. |
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Nik Habicht, Photographer
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Levittown | PA | USA | Posted: 7:36 AM on 06.27.10 |
->> When I was running four 283s for half a court I was running each strobe as low as I could dial it in -- often 1/8 or 1/16 power. With underdog batteries powering the strobes, and pocket wizards, that let me get off two or three frames before the strobes needed a moment to recycle.
In brighter gyms, I some times split them and lit both ends of the court, using two cameras/transmitters with the receivers on different channels...
For 283s you want the varipower attachment that replaces the thyristor, and you want 283s over 285s, because the 283s varipower adjusts steplessly... |
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Radu Rosca, Photographer
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Tirgu Mures | MS | Romania | Posted: 7:59 AM on 06.27.10 |
->> Nik, how was the ambient light when you were shooting your strobes at 1/8 or 1/16?
Eric, about the zooming. I always set my canon flash(es) at maximum - 105 mm because i was afraid i wouldn't get that much light going wider. Are there any light losses that would force me to increase the power or the iso with a stop if i lower the zoom?
These might sound as stupid questions but i don't got a lot of guys to ask these things around here since i've never seen anyone doing it in Romania.
Thanks to the rest of the guys who added to this thread, it's really helpful, i appreciate it!! |
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Radu Rosca, Photographer
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Tirgu Mures | MS | Romania | Posted: 8:05 AM on 06.27.10 |
->> Oh btw. I've always admired Nat Butler who shoots for the Knicks, i haven't seen anybody else besides him doing this type of stuff right here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/29625530@N08/sets/72157613439223357/
I assume he used a single strobe from the top of the key at maximum power and zoom, or was he using some kind of snoot? |
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Thomas E. Witte, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Cincinnati | OH | USA | Posted: 1:17 PM on 06.27.10 |
->> Radu- Believe it or not, your zoom range isn't that big of a deal between 85 and 105. I think the difference is roughly 5 degrees of angle between the two distances, but there are advantages/disadvantages between them as well. At 105mm you _may_ get an extra 1/3-1/2 stop out of the lights but at 85, you'll get just a little more coverage area.
As for the Nat Butler photos, it's definitely one strobe mounted directly over the hoop (note the shadow of the hoop and net where the net shadow is centered in the hoop's) and _likely_ a 5 degree reflector, but that is just an educated guess. |
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Nik Habicht, Photographer
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Levittown | PA | USA | Posted: 3:41 PM on 06.27.10 |
->> Radu,
ambient varied -- but it was usually 1/250th, f/2.8 or wider, @ anywhere between ISO800 and 3200. Occasionally there'd be a really dark gym where it would fall to 1/160th, f/1.8, at 3200.
Lighting gave me the ability to shoot at 1/320 or 1/400th, wide open, at a lower ISO. How low depended on the gym a little and whether or not I had a 550EZ firing away in the hot shoe in addition to the 283s.... |
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Radu Rosca, Photographer
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Tirgu Mures | MS | Romania | Posted: 3:36 AM on 06.28.10 |
| ->> Damn there's a lot of good info over there, thanks for the link Robert! Any idea if the CSRB Cybersyncs allows you to connect more then one flash to a receiver? |
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Butch Miller, Photographer
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Lock Haven | PA | USA | Posted: 1:22 PM on 06.28.10 |
->> I use a pair of SB800's with PW's and SD-8A battery packs to light basketball and wrestling ... I clamp them to the top rail at the stands at most locations with Super Clamps ... or use stands as needed ...
http://www.butchmiller.com/forum/BMPW_081208_200.jpg |
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Juliann Tallino, Photographer
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Radu Rosca, Photographer
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Tirgu Mures | MS | Romania | Posted: 4:55 AM on 06.30.10 |
| ->> Thanks Juliann, much appreciated. I've looked over my pair of vivitars and couldn't find any "made in.." note, so i guess i'm stuck with the new ones. Do you know what kind of problems these new models have had? |
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Philip Johnson, Photographer
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Garland | TX | USA | Posted: 9:19 AM on 06.30.10 |
| ->> Juliann, nice blog. When will you be writing some informative articles for the newsletter here? |
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Juliann Tallino, Photographer
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Seattle | WA | USA | Posted: 12:49 PM on 06.30.10 |
->> Radu,
you may not have any problems, they just didn't seem as bullet proof as the originals that you could use and abuse and they never seemed to die. BTW the HV in 285hv was intended for the vivitar batt packs, so if you find an old one it doesn't matter if you get a plain 285 or the 285hv, I have both models in my kit.
Thanks Philip, no one ever asked me. I did the blog for a previous staff job ( it was not a public blog) after I left the job some of the photographers asked me to keep it online. Glad folks find some of my ramblings and rants useful. :) |
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