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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
File size for magazine cover?
Drew Hierwarter, Photographer
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Kingsport | TN | USA | Posted: 9:48 AM on 06.08.10 |
->> I've searched and not found the definitive answer so here goes;
What's the typical file size requirement for a magazine cover shot? What are the pixel dimensions, size dimensions, file size, file type, format, etc.? I need numbers.
What have been your experiences as an art director, or dealing with art directors on resolution and file sizes for a cover? |
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Stew Milne, Photographer
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Providence | RI | USA | Posted: 11:24 AM on 06.08.10 |
->> If you have a specific art director/magazine you are looking to sell an image to, just contact them and ask what they require.
Just off the top of my head, I would think you would need at least a 300 dpi image which is whatever size of the cover. So if the cover is 8"x12", then your pixel dimensions would be 2400 x 3600. |
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Drew Hierwarter, Photographer
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Kingsport | TN | USA | Posted: 11:39 AM on 06.08.10 |
->> "->> If you have a specific art director/magazine you are looking to sell an image to, just contact them and ask what they require."
Well, that's kinda why I'm bringing this question here, Stew. The AD I've been e-mailing with is telling me, on the one hand, that the files I've been sending him are larger than they need to be, and in another e-mail saying that my Nikon D2H isn't capable of delivering a photo of sufficient resolution for their use. And then confusing the issue with lots of numbers that don't make much sense to me.
What I want to know is what OTHER ADs or magazines use and how they deal with this issue. |
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Steve Boyle, Photographer
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Philadelphia | PA | USA | Posted: 12:12 PM on 06.08.10 |
| ->> Remember when magazine covers and double trucks were shot with 4 megapixel cameras 7 years ago? |
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Colin Lenton, Photographer
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Philadelphia | PA | United States | Posted: 12:29 PM on 06.08.10 |
->> Drew, I dont really think there is a solid answer. In reality, I'm sure that a 2megapixel image CAN be printed large enough for a double truck in most magazines.
Does that mean you'd want to ? Not necessarily.
Things you'd want to know - what resolution are they printing the cover of their magazine at ?
What is the size of the magazine cover ?
Then figure out, how many pixels that would be. That should be your answer. |
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Drew Hierwarter, Photographer
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Kingsport | TN | USA | Posted: 12:45 PM on 06.08.10 |
->> Well Colin, 8-1/2 x 10-7/8(I used 11" to make the math easier) @ 300ppi works out to 8.41 MP.
But like Steve Boyle said above;"Remember when magazine covers and double trucks were shot with 4 megapixel cameras 7 years ago?"
So how did they do that then, and yea, maybe they don't want to, but why can't they do that now? |
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Thomas E. Witte, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Cincinnati | OH | USA | Posted: 1:39 PM on 06.08.10 |
->> Standard cover size is 8.375 x 10.875 at 300 dpi, but there are some paper stocks that can get by with 270dpi. (270 is pretty uncommon though because the savings are negated by costs of rethreading the new stock.) That's the finished product after it's been run through the cutter. Because of web-wiggle they start it at 8.5x11 then trim it down.
World Color Press - which handles a majority of the domestic magazine printing - has some most incredible webs I've ever seen at their hub plants and are usually within 1 mm tolerance, but they still start with a slightly larger image to ensure clean borders.
Them telling you that the D2h is too small is a sure sign they have no idea what they're doing. I've personally had 1D jpegs run as double trucks before with amazing results. The key is to have a well (or even moderately well) trained image tech perform the required work to the image.
Consider this as well... Most of the early photos you saw of the "miracle on the Hudson" that ended up on magazine covers was shot on camera phones. |
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Mike Carlson, Photographer
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Bayonet Point | FL | USA | Posted: 1:56 PM on 06.08.10 |
| ->> Just throwing a maybe out there...is he only looking at the 72 dpi on an original file out of the camera? Have had that one happen to me before. |
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Drew Hierwarter, Photographer
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Kingsport | TN | USA | Posted: 2:38 PM on 06.08.10 |
| ->> No Mike, I've been sending them full size, 300 ppi originals right out of the camera and in both jpg and tiff formats. And they can't seem to make them work for the cover. |
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Michael McNamara, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Phoenix | AZ | USA | Posted: 2:41 PM on 06.08.10 |
| ->> Drew, do you shoot RAW? Upsizing in camera raw is very easy. |
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Drew Hierwarter, Photographer
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Kingsport | TN | USA | Posted: 2:48 PM on 06.08.10 |
->> No, I've been shooting TIFFs.
I kinda figured that shooting 200 - 300 RAW images at a race would create some serious file management and storage issues.
And until now I never really needed to. Keep in mind that 90% of what I get published is smaller than covers and is mostly on newsprint. I normally send out 300 ppi jpgs than are 6 or 7 inches on the longest side. I've had no problems with any other publishers I've ever dealt with. |
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John Howley, Photographer
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Circleville | OH | USA | Posted: 2:49 PM on 06.08.10 |
| ->> The magazine I work for has a trim size of 7 7/8 x 10 7/8 and the printer suggests an extra 1/8 of an inch on the bleed to compensate for any movement on the press. 300 DPI is our preferred resolution - but we have used some images which were down around 200 that worked out fine. |
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Clark Brooks, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 3:44 PM on 06.08.10 |
->> Drew:
There is no set answer for actual file size because it will vary depending on the color information contained in the file, the file format (ie: tiff, jpeg, raw, dng) and for jpegs the compression setting when the file was saved. And just like photographers, there are AD and designers who are clueless about what they need when it comes to digital files and how to work and when needed massage them a bit.
As Mr. Witte posted the actual requirements can also depend not only on what paper stock and weight is being used, but also the press it is being printed on. Color offset presses require a much high quality file than new digital presses like the HP Indigo printer or an I-Gen printer can produce a decent image with less file info. Black and white offset printing requires a lot less, because there is less info needed to reproduce the shades of gray.
I had books printed by Blurb, who use the Indigo printers, with dpi as low as 240 that looked fine. I imagine I could probably have gone down to 220 if I really, really, really needed to with an image on a digital printer.
Our bi-monthly magazine is printed on Heidelberg presses. The final page is trimmed to 8.5 x 11 after printing on a heavy enamel stock. For the cover of our magazine a file is 8.75 x 11.25 at 300 dpi for a full bleed. Our image file sizes are large because I generally use TIFF files converted from RAW. When working with contributors I require uncompressed jpeg files which I then convert to TIFF. To date, the cover image file size for the first 27 issues has never been identical, nor would I expect it to be.
My recommendation is that you give the AD or designer exactly what they are asking for. Generally speaking, if they have been using the same printer and press for sometime, know exactly what they need to produce the quality they are used to, even if it is not the highest possible they could achieve. |
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Nick Doan, Photographer, Assistant
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Scottsdale | AZ | USA | Posted: 3:47 PM on 06.08.10 |
| ->> I always thought TIFFs were larger than RAW files...am I wrong? |
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Thomas E. Witte, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Cincinnati | OH | USA | Posted: 3:56 PM on 06.08.10 |
| ->> Grr, I wish we could edit posts... I meant .1 mm tolerance and I was referring to the travel in relation to the cutter blades, not the color plates. (sheesh could you imagine any printer bragging about getting color plates within 1mm? LOL.) |
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Drew Hierwarter, Photographer
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Kingsport | TN | USA | Posted: 4:14 PM on 06.08.10 |
->> Thanks for the great information, Clark.
You said; "My recommendation is that you give the AD or designer exactly what they are asking for."
That's the problem. His position is that my D2H is not capable of producing the files he says he needs. And, as much as I might like one, I'm not in a financial position to go out and get a new D3! :)
Thanks everyone for the good discussion. Based on some of the comments here I've decided to not worry about this anymore and just keep doing what I've been doing. I still sell photos to this and other publications and I can live without ever getting a cover. |
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Craig Mitchelldyer, Photographer, Assistant
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Portland | OR | USA | Posted: 4:33 PM on 06.08.10 |
| ->> take a file from your d2h, upsize it to 8.5x11 300ppi, save it and resend it to him. then it will be just fine. |
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Tom Davenport, Photographer
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Hayden | ID | USA | Posted: 4:54 PM on 06.08.10 |
->> Drew – Great topic! I have found in my limited experience that many magazine editors are looking for a 25 meg file, and if it is labeled “tiff” and somewhere and says 300ppi or as many editors say 300dpi, it makes them happy. I seem to remember that if you scanned a negative at the highest setting on many film scanners, you would get something near a 25 meg file. Newspapers that intend on using the image for newsprint seem to be exceptions. Then it seems they mostly want it much smaller, say 8-11 megs and 200 ppi.
Nick – I thought the same thing.
Clark – What is an “uncompressed jpeg”? I thought all jpegs were compressed.
Thanks and good luck.
Tom |
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Kevin Seale, Photographer
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Crawfordsville | IN | United States | Posted: 9:26 PM on 06.08.10 |
| ->> Thomas, 1 mm tolerances are what newspapers use. :-) Actually, I think most newspapers use the "are all four units on, that's good enough" tolerances. |
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