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Some business advice needed
Aleksi Lepisto, Photographer
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Sacramento | CA | United States | Posted: 5:38 AM on 05.29.10 |
->> I'm going through talks with a sports team to be a photographer for their upcoming season. I estimate I will need, at least, a Nikon D3 and a 300mm 2.8 or 400mm 2.8 lens.
Both, which I do not own. I have been shooting sports here and there - but mainly have rented as needed, because I cannot justify buying when I can't get the business. I also don't have a long history of established credit, as I am college aged, and well, kinda broke.
That being said, I don't want to lose this chance. I was curious if anyone has any advice. I recently rented a D3 and the Nikon 200-400 f/4 to shoot with for a week, with insurance and shipping , and the total was around $700. It's baseball, and there are 38 home games, which means I will shoot during stretches of 4-5 days, then have about that much time off, as they go on a road trip.
I still don't know how much I will be paid. I'm trying to calculate my costs together so I know what to quote them - and I am sure they want to haggle. I just don't want to get in over my head, or lose a customer, because I don't have the equipment.
Any ideas? I thought about trying to lease for the season, say 6 months, but I doubt I can get anything because I am new (Some of the photo companies only lease to those with 2 years established business income) and I don't have the cash to buy this stuff myself. I also don't really want to tip them off that I am in this situation because they may retract their services, or feel they can devalue my work.
I doubt they can afford to pay me $700/week to shoot 3-5 games, as it's a minor league team. If they could, that would be the absolute limit - and then I wouldn't make ANY money, and this would require a bit of relocation and driving (I'd stay with family, and make the 1.5 hour drive each way to the games, or stay in a hotel during the homestands).
I figure to make it worth it, I need to pocket AT LEAST $300/week to cover my living expenses and gas, without factoring in the actual equipment costs.
So - long story, but what would you do? "Save up" doesn't cut it, the season starts mid June and they want to finalize their decision by the end of the week. Am I screwed? |
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Brian Blanco, Photographer
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Tampa / Sarasota | FL | USA | Posted: 6:44 AM on 05.29.10 |
->> Aleksi,
You asked for business, advice to here it is:
Don't even FATHOM the idea of accepting a position that requires you to- relocate, drive 3 hours a day, buy 10k worth of equipment you can't afford, sleep on a relative's couch all week and "pocket AT LEAST $300 a week".
First of all, you wouldn't be "pocketing" anything based upon what you're describing. Why would you even consider an "opportunity" like this? Just for the chance to shoot minor league baseball games for several hours a day, 3 to 5 times a week?
You mentioned that you're concerned about them "retracting their services". Aleksi, you've got to realize that YOU'RE the one providing the service, NOT THEM. They're the client (the consumer) and they need YOU. That's not to say that we don't treat our clients with respect and try to work within their budgets and appreciate their patronage, we do. I LOVE my regular clients and I bend over backwards to take care of them and I know that they'd never even dream of taking advantage of that. But it sounds to me that you're bound and determined to accept this gig regardless of the hardship it may put you in.
I say this with all due respect, but the minute you start looking at this career path as a BUSINESS (and not an opportunity to do 'cool' things) you'll take a GIANT step forward in your career. |
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Brian Blanco, Photographer
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Tampa / Sarasota | FL | USA | Posted: 6:49 AM on 05.29.10 |
| ->> More business advice: Watch your (my) early morning typos on message board threads at 5 am after a long night ;-) |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 9:49 AM on 05.29.10 |
->> My advice is to take a pass. Look at it this way: How much would you gross if everything went down the right way?
What would your total expenses be? Deduct expenses from gross and you'll have your answer.
Now, what happens if things don't go according to plan?
All of the risks are on YOUR shoulders. For what? To shoot a minor league team? If you don't take this BAD deal, you'll have the opportunity to find a GOOD deal. IF you must shoot baseball, if that is THE goal, then take a look at this link:
http://www.sportsshooter.com/members.html?id=7403
Brian didn't need a D3 and a 300mm. He needed his skill and creative mind.
My friend Brian is correct: Make this a business decision. You HAVE TO UNDERSTAND that no one who makes hiring decisions cares about who you shot - what they care about is HOW you shot them and what the result is.
Email me if you want to talk business. |
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Preston Mack, Photographer
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Orlando | FL | USA | Posted: 10:00 AM on 05.29.10 |
->> "I still don't know how much I will be paid."
There is no debate needed until you find out what the pay will be.
I doubt it will be enough to cover the costs of a D3 and 300 2.8 and your travel - minor league teams have no money for this stuff. I bet at some point, someone will offer them free photo services for a credential. Always happens.
There really is no way to make a living as a sports photographer anymore. |
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Jon Gardiner, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 10:24 AM on 05.29.10 |
->> Unfortunately, There is already waaaaaay too much volunteerism going on at the minor league level. From ushers to video crews. Even if this were a team in your backyard, it would be a loosing business deal. I know it's hard to walk away when it appears that they want you and are probably excited that they have a willing and capable person to fill their needs, but that's just it, they're filling THEIR needs, not yours... You WILL be paying money you do not have to do this. It WILL NOT lead to a reasonable paying job with them.
I looked at your SS.com gallery, and my other piece of advice is to STOP crediting yourself as "(Courtesy/Aleksi Lepisto)" If "Courtesy" is the name of your business, well then that's just ridiculous.
Best of luck,
Jon |
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Walt Middleton, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Columbus | OH | USA | Posted: 11:46 AM on 05.29.10 |
->> Wow... I agree. When I see (Courtesy / insert name) I assume the photo was taken or given without the knowlage of the photographer. And said photographer was certainly not paid.
You should change that.
Also, in regards to the opertunity... i.e. a job...
Your job always, always, always need to pay for the gear. Either directly (ie employer pays for it) or indirectly (they pay you enough to afford to get it and still make a suitable profit) I would agree with everyone above who says that in most cases Minor League teams don't have a budget and will go with the lowest paid that they can find. So, if you were to accept this job. Get everything written down. The exact games they want shot, the image count they are expecting, any extra events they may want, the exact license that they expect to recieve (NEVER NEVER GUVE UP COPYRIGHT UNLESS PAID FOR IT), what they are going to pay you exactly and in what time frame, as well as any exras they are willing to give (i.e. food onsite) things like that. Then if you and this team come to an acceptable agreement both parties need to sign. With everything spelled out there is less room for misunderstandings on both parties.
Alright, as always, any questions
Just ask.
Walt |
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Aleksi Lepisto, Photographer
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Sacramento | CA | United States | Posted: 3:51 PM on 05.29.10 |
->> I wasn't aware "courtesy" was so offensive...I use that tag because the paper I freelance for asks me to include it. Its not like its free, I think that's a very ticky-tack thing, and not related to this subject, so id appreciate we move on from that.
I think the gallery is still out on if this will be profitable. As mentioned, I have yet to really sit down and discuss price. I realize there is a really good chance they won't be able to pay much, but I don't want to write anything off without seeing it through to the end, at least making sure I know the entire situation.
Let me ask you this: when you guys/gals needed to buy your long glass, what did you do? I can't get access to lenses at a paper, like some, so I'm stuck either renting occasionally, or trying to buy something. I don't like the practice of using credit, especially without a solid flow of income. As much as I like photography, I can't waste money on it if it won't actually help.
I've chatted with a lot of people who DO make a licing shooting MiLB, and they advise to take every opportunity to shoot and get myself out there. I suppose I'm conflicted between that advice, and the fact that I (most likely, but I don't know yet) be making a lot of money.
When you started your freelancing business, what did you do? |
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Aleksi Lepisto, Photographer
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Sacramento | CA | United States | Posted: 4:07 PM on 05.29.10 |
->> That said, I appreciate the relevent feedback I've already gotten. I made a type about retracting "their" services, but I assumed that would have been obvious. My mistake.
To ask a further question, at what point would you consider relocating and shooting fulltime to be worth it. I realize some people demand a lot of money, but frankly, I fail to see a downside when you consider that id be sitting around here anyway, having exhausted every job opportunity in my area. I would take the advice not to shoot and find something else, but when your resume is limited photographically, like mine is, there obviously needs to be a bit of a sacrifice taken to further it.
My plan was to shoot the team, and cover University athletics on spec at the same time (they're in the same city, and its a big school) as well as continue my "day job."
So those who say its not worth it, I'm curious if you would be able to say when it was. It'd be a help to me to hear all of your thoughts about that so I can filter who's got what goals or mortivations.
If I wanted only to be a profitable business, I could shoot weddings and senior portraits, but I guess I don't really want generic business advice, because that would become profitable quicker. At the same time, working for free is something I won't do. That doesn't mean I have to be making money, I have accepted jobs before that have covered expenses without the clients knowing, that have panned out into more profit later. I think we've all made that choice at one point or another. I don't know anyone who was profitable on their first business transaction that had any overhead. |
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Brad Mangin, Photographer
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Pleasanton | CA | USA | Posted: 4:21 PM on 05.29.10 |
->> Aleksi- some nice folks here have given you good advice. Minor League Baseball teams will never pay a decent wage because there are inexperienced business people like you who are always willing to work for cheap to "get a foot in the door." This is not a good thing to do.
I will tell you how I bought my first 400 2.8 in 1993 for $5,600. I worked my ass of. I had a staff job at a small newspaper. I also freelanced on my days off. I was young and not so smart- but I kept a box full of my checks uncashed so I wouldn't blow the money, and when I hit the magic number I deposited the money in the bank and FEDEXED a cashiers check to the camera store in New York to buy my lens.
You can always make excuses- but you are trying to justify doing slave labor for a professional sports team. Once you do this you will always be the "cheap guy" and will never make any money. Most of these teams get fans and local hobbyists to shoot for them for next to nothing. In exchange they get the so-called thrill of being on the field, etc.
The best way to get your name out there is to make great pictures. However- the way things are going now it might not do any good. There is no money out there right now. Keep shooting for the newspaper and get better.
These things take time. Most of the shooters my age started at crappy little newspapers shooting little league and prep sports. It was not glamorous- but I learned so much from the veteran staffers that over 20 years later we are still good friends.
This is not a race- it is a marathon. Enjoy the journey. Make friends in this business with shooters who have been there and who are willing to help you. Get to know the local pros who can help you in person.
And learn to say "NO". It is one of the best feelings in the world. |
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Lane Hickenbottom, Photographer
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Omaha | NE | usa | Posted: 4:56 PM on 05.29.10 |
->> "I don't know anyone who was profitable on their first business transaction that had any overhead."
While it might be true that if your overhead will prevent you from being in the black after your first assignment, it's also true that if you ever want to see profits, your per-assignment revenue has to be enough to cover your direct costs to that assignment.
Before you ever get to "pocket at least $300/a week," you have to pay these low-budget monthly expenses:
(these are all estimates, change your numbers accordingly)
$300 loan payment on gear
$200 car payment
$300 gas/oil changes/wear&tear on your car
$100 health insurance premium
$50 business insurance and inland marine policy for your gear
$750 meals (that's a $25/a day budget. Includes fast food and beer money)
$600 rent
$100 utilities
$100 computer payment (already own one? someday you'll need a new one)
$3000 hookers and blow
$80 cell phone
$50 internet
$100 retirement fund
$200 misc. entertainment
Even without the hookers and blow, that's nearly $3k per month of fixed costs that you need to overcome. I didn't consider a few things. Backup equipment (it's important). Taxes. The nice thing about your situation in regard to taxes, is that you'll unlikely be paying much.
What you need to do is plug in your own numbers and see if it makes sense.
Maybe it does. |
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Aleksi Lepisto, Photographer
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Sacramento | CA | United States | Posted: 4:59 PM on 05.29.10 |
->> Thanks Brad,
I didn't mean to come off like I am dismissing anyone's advice. I appreciate you sharing insight into your start. The entire reason I started this was because I wanted some advice and perhaps alternatives to the situation - because I didn't want to:
1. Undercut the industry by shooting for an unreasonable rate (or free) - to the client that is.
2. Waste my time - I fully expect this to not pan out, but I need to calculate my expenses and needs regardless of any future opportunities, so this is a good time to start.
3. Gain some outside perspective - which I now have.
I think I've gotten some really good advice, mixed with some of the usual interpretation. I may be contacting some of you guys individually to further elaborate on something you've written.
Thanks again, |
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Delane B. Rouse, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | US | Posted: 5:19 PM on 05.29.10 |
->> Aleksi,
People have posted some good advice for you here.
I try to make things really simple...so FIRST you need to figure out what you would be paid. How can you make any decision if you don't even know how much money you'll get paid.
The other thing is that you're WAYYYY off track thinking that you MUST have a D3. The team won't know the difference between the files from a 24 megapixel D3 and the GWC (Guy With Camera) shooting a with a 14 megapixel Sony NEX-3 or Samsung NX10.
The difference is that the GWC won't be broke since his camera only cost $549.
Good luck
Delane |
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Brian Blanco, Photographer
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Tampa / Sarasota | FL | USA | Posted: 5:20 PM on 05.29.10 |
->> Aleksi,
The fact that you're on here asking questions is a great first step. I have to applaud you for seeking advice. A lot of people in your situation just buy gear and head out into the field ready to give away the farm without a moment's hesitation. At least you're thinking about it.
Anyway, I'd have to make an adjustment to the advice you received from the MLB shooter that you said told you to just shoot and get yourself out there. While his/her advice is generally sound, you have to consider that sometimes getting out there and shooting at any cost ends up getting your name out there in a negative way.
Brad (whose advice you should really value) touched on this a bit. You don't want to become known as the "cheap guy" because you'll ALWAYS be "the cheap guy". I've seen good, solid, shooters here in my market who went that route and they find that, even years later, they're still stuck with that label. It's hard to reverse it. Why would people start paying you if you have a reputation for loving shooting so much that you're known to shoot for free... or close to free which is usually a loss at the end of the day.
Also, not only will "clients" (and I use that term with with hesitation) label you as "the cheap guy", but the other shooters in your market will also stick you with that label. These are the shooters that, trust me on this, you're going to need in your career and if you're seen as the guy who has cost them money by being cheap, or just simply seen as a "sports fan with a camera" they're NEVER going to throw you any work.
In my area there is a core group of freelancers that work VERY well together. we share clients, equipment, advice and will go out of our way to help each other on a shoot. These are the guys that I refer work to when I'm unavailable to cover an assignment, and these are the guys who call me and forward their most trusted clients to me when they're tied up.
These guys send me clients and jobs because they know, with 100% certainty, that I'd NEVER undercut them, and that I charge day rates and or licensing fees similar to theirs. I trust them with my most valued clients as well. You'd be AMAZED at what percentage of our incomes come from working together and sharing resources and clients.
Guess who we NEVER throw work to? "The Cheap Guy(s)"
If you, and any other young/new shooter reading this take nothing away from this thread then PLEASE take this advice: Being "the cheap guy" will only cost you money and reputation in the end. You may get a buck or two here and there but you may never recover from that "cheap guy" label.
You have an opportunity to set the tone of your career right now as you're starting out, because it's much harder, if not impossible, to reverse later.
Best of luck. |
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Robert Boag, Student/Intern
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Harrisonburg | VA | US | Posted: 5:47 PM on 05.29.10 |
| ->> As a student who is currently entering into the freelance world these forums have been truly invaluable these past few months. Thank you all for being so open and willing to give advice and guidance. This thread is another example of how great of an asset the Sports Shooter community is. Also Aleksi if you already don't own John Harrington's Better Business Practices For Photographers go out and grab yourself a copy. I am currently reading it front to back and it has already dramatically changed my approach to photography as a business. He also has a lot of great advice on issues such as the one that you are in. |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 8:00 PM on 05.29.10 |
->> Aleksi,
The "courtesy of" thing isn't offensive, but it might be misleading. It means that an image was provided out of courtesy, as opposed to having been paid for. The newspaper you're shooting for is perpetuating the impression that images are without monetary value. That's not good for anybody. I would request that they not do it with my images and explain why.
--Mark |
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Sean D. Elliot, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Dan Megna, Photographer
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Coronado | CA | USA | Posted: 9:49 PM on 05.29.10 |
| ->> GAWD, reality checks can really suck.... |
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Sam Santilli, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Philippi | WV | USA | Posted: 12:02 PM on 05.30.10 |
->> Lane , great list of costs. One to add: Accountant
Aleski, take it from one who has dealt with minor leagues entities...THEY DO NOT, WILL NOT, AND NEVER WILL PAY YOU ANYHTING!!!! |
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Manuello Paganelli, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 1:37 PM on 06.01.10 |
->> "If I wanted only to be a profitable business, I could shoot weddings and senior portraits, but I guess I don't really want generic business advice, because that would become profitable quicker...."
Been profitable is exactly what you need to do FIRST anything else will come after that. And those generic advices are the ones that will lead to the bigger accounts and the win/win deals. The way you stand now is no $$ and going into a non $$ contract to get you into deep $$$ debts. and by the time you get your first paying client all your VERY EXPENSIVE gears will be obsolete.
I also dont get how come you still dont know how much you are getting paid? See doesnt get more generic than that.
Do you ever go to any fancy restaurant with a friend NEVER knowing the prices of ready to order bottle of wine, salad, first and second piatti then a desert? IF you really want to know what you gotta do then LISTEN to all the advices freely and kindly given to you here.
"I wasn't aware "courtesy" was so offensive... Its not like its free." IF you are willing to listen first and learn those generic biz advices then you would understand it all. When you stay at a hotel they offer you courtesy pastry or breakfast. Maybe courtesy parking. Or a courtesy shuttle to pick you from the airport so YES is free. Is all courtesy=complementary of the house. The way it sounds is that the paper is doing you a favor by showcasing your images in there and in return you are saying "thank you for printing my free work."
"I think that's a very ticky-tack thing, and not related to this subject, so id appreciate we move on from that" IF you are getting all this GREAT help and WONDERFUL advice then stay away from snipping at the good will of the folks in here and before you move on then learn some of the right things.
"I don't know anyone who was profitable on their first business transaction that had any overhead."
I made money from the start of my career by learning the generic business topics, making wise decisions and by growing from there. That is one of the basic of been profitable and it was done back when there wasnt the internet or anybody to ask questions.
Here you got this vast information so treat it well and use it wisely.
BTW if you get into this debacle of a venture you will me sinking fast like the Titanic.
More 2 come
Pag
www.ManuelloPaganelli.com
Los Angeles California |
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Aleksi Lepisto, Photographer
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Sacramento | CA | United States | Posted: 6:57 PM on 06.01.10 |
->> Thanks for the continued responses guys and gals. I've gotten some private messages from a lot of you and it's been appreciated.
I think I should clear up a few factors though, as I may have left them a little too open to interpretation, and it's probably leading to wrong assumptions.
Firstly, I don't do, or have any ambition to, be a full-time photographer. I shoot what I like, consider me a hobbyist who wants to charge like a pro. I happen to like sports, and shooting them is fun. That said, I don't want to be the guy who uses his normal job to pay for his equipment to shoot sports for next to nothing - because that is just annoying. I am broke, photographically, because I don't get clients coming in that would require me to buy the glass that shooting stuff like this would require. I make a constant effort to keep my photography profitable on it's own, so my other finances don't bleed over.
The main question I had in starting this thread was simply how to factor in the alternatives to buying such expensive glass (mainly) to something that I don't normally shoot, and frankly, doesn't seem profitable for the average photographer to shoot. Sure, there are those of us who manage to be paid freelance and can support themselves with sports alone, but a lot of us can't, so I don't have that expectation.
Instead, I was looking for some advice about how to bill, and perhaps alternatives to acquiring the equipment needed for these types of long-term shoots, aside from renting and buying. I wanted to get an idea what everyone else, who was also freelancing and needed this type of gear, was doing.
That said, I don't want to undercut anyone or charge something completely ridiculous. As mentioned though - trying to buy 8k worth of glass to shoot for one client is a horrible choice, and something I'm not really willing to consider - especially with everything I'm seeing in regards to the profitability of sports photography.
My main concern was how to address this issue, because this would have been/would be/may be in the future something I've never done before. I've never had to factor in such expensive equipment for ONE job, and I wasn't sure which of the alternatives to consider. Usually, with spot news/weddings, etc, the equipment costs are much lower, at least for me.
I think I may have misconstrued this into being a "how to get into business shooting sports" thread when in reality, I meant it simply as a "what are my alternatives" thread regarding expensive glass (like a 400mm) and billing clients who may or may not want to pay for a purchase like that.
Anyway, thanks again for the replies. Hopefully I was able to clear that up a bit. Thanks again |
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Mike Last, Photographer, Assistant
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Toronto | ON | Canada | Posted: 7:32 PM on 06.01.10 |
->> Line of credit at a bank. If you've worked a regular job with a somewhat steady income for a year or so, it's not too hard to get a $10,000 line at 5.5%. Buy a 400 2.8 used on the line of credit, pay the 5.5% per month for however many months you need it, then sell it for the same price you originally bought it for when you don't need it.
If you pay $5000 for the lens, that's $275 accruing in interest a month, and the 3% minimum payment of the balance, about $150. So for about $425 per month, you have a $5000 lens, which is half the price of an online rental house.
With that said, it's a huge risk you run if you can't recoup the same price you bought it for when a new version comes out...
Not exactly sound business advice, but less than the $800 per month of an online lens rental house.
Or you join NPS/CPS and ask very nicely if you can borrow one to try for a month long project. |
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Brian Blanco, Photographer
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Tampa / Sarasota | FL | USA | Posted: 8:09 PM on 06.01.10 |
->> Aleksi,
I see now that you were trying to narrow the scope of the discussion to a "how to afford long glass" type of thread. The problem was that for any of us to give you advice on that, without first pointing out the potential pitfalls in the situation you described at the start of the thread, would have been a disservice to you and to anybody else reading the thread.
However, if, after everything you've read in the posts above, you'd still like advice narrowly focused on buying/affording long glass then my advice would be this:
(Given your financial situation and the minor league team situation you described above)
1) Don't buy a D3 or D3s. It's WAY more camera than you need right now. Never buy a piece of equipment that doesn't pay for itself and start turning a profit in 3 months. You can buy D2H and D2Hs bodies all day long on the used market for $250.00 + - .
In daylight the D2H is still a great camera. Also, if you buy a D3 you likely won't have money left over for a second body. NEVER rely on a single body. I won't even dream of heading out to cover an assignment with less than 3 bodies. Two bodies is an absolute minimum. Trust me, no minor league front office guy will know the difference anyway and somehow we all managed to shoot with those cameras back when they were in production.
2) BUY USED glass. Let someone else take the depreciation hit. In time, if you decide to do this for a living for real, you'll get to the point where you are the one at the top of the purchasing chain and you (actually your clients) can afford to absorb the significant depreciation hit of new gear. Right now just scour the sportsshooter classified ads, sponsors' websites' used equipment sections, Craigslist, eBay etc... for a steal on a beater 300mm f/2.8
Heck you may even want to find an aftermarket 300mm f/2.8 like a Sigma or Tamron. Don't buy a 400mm f/2.8 right now as it's too much of an investment. In fact, seriously consider buying a used 300mm f/4. If most of you games will be day games and f/4 lens will be fine... I know it doesn't "look as cool" but try not to worry about "cool points"... wow them with your images and they'll shut the heck up.
3) Try to avoid buying it on credit if you can. You don't need that burden right now if you can avoid it. Again, if it's not paying for itself within short order then if you've paid cash you can turn around and sell it and wipe your hands of the deal.
4) Consider finding other ways to cover whatever it is you're looking to cover without cookie-cutter sports action, shallow depth-of-field, light, tight and bright, peak action, bla bla bla images. You'll make a name for yourself much faster if you're known for telling a great story about a game and you can do that with a beater $75.00 50mm f/1.8 and a great eye.
5) Watch the unintended tone of some of your message board posts... they make you sound like you've got a little chip on your shoulder. I doubt that's the case, but it'd be a good idea to avoid that anyway. You can have a chip on your shoulder eventually... the best shooters always do ;-) |
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Brian Blanco, Photographer
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Tampa / Sarasota | FL | USA | Posted: 8:19 PM on 06.01.10 |
->> ... oh, and the "Courtesy" byline is a bigger deal than you're giving it credit for. If you are, in fact, getting paid by that paper then it should read, "Photo by Aleksi Lepisto/Special to the Daily Herald" or "Aleksi Lepisto for the Daily Herald"
"Courtesy" is what they put on handout photos of check passing images or family photos used in print.
Make them change that or, at the very least, don't include that on your SS page... makes me think you're giving away photos for the glory of seeing your name in print... which you've said isn't the case so removing that will be to your benefit. |
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Aleksi Lepisto, Photographer
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Sacramento | CA | United States | Posted: 10:51 PM on 06.01.10 |
->> Brian,
Points taken. I thought I made it obvious that I wasn't meaning any of this to sound abrasive or egotistical. If anyone took it that way, again, I apologize and reiterate that I didn't mean to do so.
As you mentioned - it now seems like my initial intentions were made more clear. I will continue to look into alternatives and see where the process leads. |
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John Germ, Photographer
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Wadsworth | Oh | USA | Posted: 1:38 PM on 06.02.10 |
->> Just thought I'd chime in here. Like you, sports photography is mostly a hobby for me. My approach is this - you have to start with a minimum capital investment and then buy more gear with your profits. So, I started with a Canon 20d and sigma 70-200 2.8. I shot youth sports and, after a season, got a gig with a small local paper where I was paid on print - not ideal, but they didn't care that I was selling images on the side so any photo printed by them was added income. When I had enough money I bought an 85mm 1.8 to shoot indoor sports with. When I had enough money saved from sales I bought a sigma 120-300 2.8. Then after more profits I bought a canon 580exII and battery pack. Then I bought a 1dmkIII body. The point is - if this is a hobby for you you have to adjust your timeline to the reality. You're not going to pull in $1200 a month shooting out of the gate. Not going to happen. Not doing it part time. So, if you've already got a d90 or better you have enough camera. Now get a lens. What lens depends on which sports you want to key in on initially. Whatever you can get for $1000 - maybe it's a sigma 100-300 f4, maybe it's a used 300mm f4. But keep that initial investment at $1000 or less. When you have several grand in the bank from photography, then upgrade.
Otherwise, the "coolness" factor will wear off after a year - you'll be tired of running yourself ragged, and still being broke or in debt with nothing to show for it. |
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Lane Hickenbottom, Photographer
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Omaha | NE | usa | Posted: 5:49 PM on 06.07.10 |
->> If it's a hobby, then realize this early in life:
hobbies are expensive. |
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