SportsShooter.com - Spelling and Grammar (revisited)

	Somerset \| PA \| USA \| Posted: 11:37 AM on 05.06.10
	->> I don't know if email is to blame for the decline of good writing and spelling, but I know texting is -- M I rite? (Oh, it's laziness)

Stephen Brashear, Photographer, Assistant

Seattle | WA | USA | Posted: 11:39 AM on 05.06.10

->> Mark - Thank you for the post. I'm sure I've been guilty of some typos and poor grammar from time to time.

I'd like to add that spelling correctly in posts here helps when searching the Sportsshooter message boards for posts on any number of topics. I've been frustrated when looking for a topic that I know I had seen previously, only to find it after many fruitless searches and much scrolling because the word was spelled incorrectly.

Brian Westerholt, Photographer

	Kannapolis \| NC \| USA \| Posted: 12:40 PM on 05.06.10
	->> Another one of my pet peaves is "loose" and "lose" - "loose" means "not tight" and "lose" means to have lost something.

Martin McNeil, Photographer

East Kilbride | Lanarkshire | United Kingdom | Posted: 12:42 PM on 05.06.10

->> Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are in; the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a ttoal mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

(Note: note even Snopes.com knows real source for this tidbit of information but, nonetheless, it seems to be mostly true!)

Stephen Brashear, Photographer, Assistant

	Seattle \| WA \| USA \| Posted: 12:48 PM on 05.06.10
	->> Martin - You are correct. That is why ALL CAPS are more difficult to read. We look at the shape of the word, but order of letters does matter to search engines. I don't think Google has developed a search in which you spell the word correctly and its says 'Did you mean (insert misspelling here)?' I'm sure they are working on it though. It is all part of their plan to take over the world.

Bradly J. Boner, Photographer, Photo Editor

Jackson | WY | USA | Posted: 12:52 PM on 05.06.10

->> To build on Mark's post, photographers applying for internships and jobs need to know AP style and use it correctly in captions. When I'm looking over internship applications every spring, the top five or so shooters quickly rise to the top. To me, because these top 4-5 photographers are about the same on a technical and skill level, what it comes down to from there is attention to detail; which applicant has the cleanest cover letter and captions and which know their AP style.

Some of the most common mistakes in captions I've seen include:

- Use of "over" when "more than" should be used

- Incorrect state abbreviations; it usually happens when postal abbreviations are used instead of AP style.

- Incorrect abbreviations of months.

- Incorrect spelling of my first name (I see quite a few put an "e" in my first name). I'm not one of those sticklers who immediately nix an application for this offense (I've known editors who would), but come on... one should at least correctly spell the name of the person to they're sending their application to. One of the most basic rules in journalism writing is always, always, always spell names correctly.

In this day when internships and staff positions are so competitive applicants need to make sure they don't give editors any excuse to have their application moved to the "out" pile based on poor spelling, grammar or use of AP style.

Mike Doran, Photographer

Petaluma | CA | U.S.A. | Posted: 12:58 PM on 05.06.10

->> I agree with all your points although I must add that yesterday I made a comment about a post here on the board regarding someone who was looking for a pont and shoot, for my comment I was given two funnies and two inappropriate marks. What is really sad about this post is that I had my mom visiting me and she pointed out several error's.She was a little upset that I received two inappropriate marks. I pride myself on my spelling and grammar as if my mom the school teacher was standing right behind me.

Dave Prelosky, Photographer

	Lower Burrell \| Pa \| US \| Posted: 1:00 PM on 05.06.10
	->> And for a Continuing Ed course from a qualified editor, bookmark this: http://johnemcintyre.blogspot.com/

Dave Breen, Photographer

	Somerset \| PA \| USA \| Posted: 1:55 PM on 05.06.10
	->> Other frequent errors: An apostrophe indicates possession (of something, i.e. Jim's camera) or contraction (of two words, i.e. isn't). It is not used when adding an "s" to form a plural. The subjunctive tense of "is" is "were", as in "if I were going" (I'm not actually going, but if ...). Granted, I'm being very picky with this one.

Nic Coury, Photographer

	Monterey \| CA \| \| Posted: 2:17 PM on 05.06.10
	->> I recently got reamed for mis-spelling "Argument". I spelled it "Arguement". Reader's commenting on the story never let it go...

Mark Loundy, Photo Editor

San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 2:21 PM on 05.06.10

->> I wouldn't dream of hiring a photographer who did not know the difference between "your" and "you're" or "its" and "it's." There are simply too many excellent shooters out there who do.

Sportsshooter and most other online discussion forums are informal gathering places. Nobody expects absolute surgical perfection in the threads (I've certainly made my share of mistakes.) But this is a highly public place and consistent elementary errors in spelling or grammar can be damaging to one's career.

--Mark

Mark Loundy, Photo Editor

	San Jose \| CA \| USA \| Posted: 2:23 PM on 05.06.10
	->> Nic, I've misspelled the word "misspelled." Talk about embarrassing! --Mark

Scott A. Schneider, Photographer

	Minneapolis \| MN \| USA \| Posted: 3:06 PM on 05.06.10
	->> Mike - "error's"?

Bradly J. Boner, Photographer, Photo Editor

	Jackson \| WY \| USA \| Posted: 3:39 PM on 05.06.10
	->> Mark - good point about this being an informal forum, and also that no one expects perfection. It's important to have perspective. But you're also correct in that we all probably can remember posts where we could swear the authors were texting their responses instead of actually typing them. And finally, one of my pet peeves: "too" vs. "to" vs. "two"

Ian L. Sitren, Photographer

	Palm Springs \| CA \| USA \| Posted: 4:05 PM on 05.06.10
	->> I do make exceptions! The incorrect spelling of my name following "Pay To The Order Of..." is fully acceptable.

Mark Peters, Photographer

	Highland \| IL \| USA \| Posted: 8:39 PM on 05.06.10
	->> May we please drive a stake through the heart of "prolly" while we are at it?

Mark Loundy, Photo Editor

	San Jose \| CA \| USA \| Posted: 9:17 PM on 05.06.10
	->> Mark, Prolly not. The "click" of hipsters won't allow it. --Mark (It's "clique" and it's pronounced "kleek.")

Michael Fischer, Photographer

	Spencer \| Ia \| USA \| Posted: 10:13 PM on 05.06.10
	->> Scott, you beat me to it. Mike, can you tell us why you should have typed errors not error's? ( I see this particular error quite often )

Dianna Russell, Photographer

Springfield | MO | USA | Posted: 10:45 PM on 05.06.10

->> The misused words that make me cringe the most are loose/lose and their/there/they're.

Two books that should be in everyone's library can be found here:

http://www.sportsshooter.com/education/book_profile.html?id=600
http://www.sportsshooter.com/education/book_profile.html?id=120

The 2010 edition of the AP Stylebook is set to be released in May.

http://www.apstylebook.com/

And, yes. There *is* an app for that.

:-)

Mike Doran, Photographer

	Petaluma \| CA \| U.S.A. \| Posted: 10:50 PM on 05.06.10
	->> I wasn't watching where I was going. At least I didn't spell it wrong.

Jerry Lai, Photo Editor, Photographer

Chicago | IL | USA | Posted: 11:08 PM on 05.06.10

->> As a photo editor, I have a large number of photographer pet peeves. But I can say for a fact that there is nothing that drives me crazier than photographers who consistently write poor captions that are littered with spelling and grammatical errors.

While I don't like to make generalizations, poor grammar in a photographer's captions suggest to me that you are lazy and will fail to consistently pay attention to details.

Richard Uhlhorn, Photographer

	Chelan Falls \| WA \| USA \| Posted: 12:45 AM on 05.07.10
	->> And I spelled gammar grammer in my post. Shame on me.

Eric Francis, Photographer

	Omaha \| NE \| United States \| Posted: 2:09 AM on 05.07.10
	->> Mark, Thier you go again but, your so rite... its very important

David Seelig, Photographer

	Hailey \| ID \| USA \| Posted: 2:47 AM on 05.07.10
	->> I thought this was, sportsshooter.com not, newspaperphotographer.com. I will not forget that I was told at the end of the newsletter all Bert was getting was commnets about grammar. I miss the newsletter a lot.

Nic Coury, Photographer

	Monterey \| CA \| \| Posted: 3:27 AM on 05.07.10
	->> speling iz opshunal.

Chet Gordon, Photographer

	Newburgh \| NY \| US \| Posted: 6:07 AM on 05.07.10
	->> Jerry, "...While I don't like to make generalizations, poor grammar in a photographer's captions suggest to me that you are lazy and will fail to consistently pay attention to details..." Amen. ~cg.

Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor

Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 2:49 PM on 05.07.10

->> Well,

As an ESL (English as a Second Language) Person, I pride myself in being able to speak and write the language correctly. I might have typing dyslexia (I often type TEH instead of THE, I just catch it in proof reading, I do proof ready everything I write.

OTOH, I'm not a journalist, I don't claim to be one, I didn't study to be one nor do I want to be one. When I went to Brooks back in the early 80's we had one Writing class, One Speaking class, Two Business Classes and One math and One Physics classes. 99% of our classes were only Photography related classes. Was that ideal?? It was for me, as I had a previous College education in Biology prior to attending Brooks. I'm a Commercial Photographer, I mostly do Studio Product Photography and the only reason I do some Sports Photography is because my corporate clients want me do do so. In my case, proper spelling might not affect how I do my job, but it affects me personally and how I present myself to others in the industry.

Properly using your native tongue has nothing to do with your ability as a Photographer, but it has EVERYTHING to do wit your basic education and professionalism.

Mark Peters, Photographer

	Highland \| IL \| USA \| Posted: 4:02 PM on 05.07.10
	->> Richard - At least you didn't spell it as gammar....oh, wait...

Jeff Jones, Photo Editor

Gallup | NM | USA | Posted: 4:24 PM on 05.07.10

->> Text messaging makes it even worse - they (high school students in my digital photography class) write Email to each other and use text format. If you look at their screens (which I have to)you would swear they are typing with a red font. The spell checker option in our school district Email must go home at the end of the day, down a bottle of hard liquor and cry.

Here's an example - exactly as the student typed it:

b3cuz iitSz lyke d3y dO da Sam3 ol' Sam3 n dhatSz Szo bOriing b3sid3s iiqu3Sz have tO stick wit it cuz im graduatin 4rm diSz SkOOl Szo yupp . . . JuSzt maybE thO hahha

I think I found the editor for next year's student newspaper.

Dave Breen, Photographer

	Somerset \| PA \| USA \| Posted: 5:13 PM on 05.07.10
	->> Jeff, I give up -- can you translate that for me (just out of curiosity)?

Mark Loundy, Photo Editor

	San Jose \| CA \| USA \| Posted: 7:47 PM on 05.07.10
	->> I think: "Because it's like they do the same old same and that's so boring besides it's because have to stick with it because I'm graduating from this school. So yep... Just maybe though, ha ha." At that age, I just grew my hair long, wore jeans and, uh, never mind. --M@rqq

Andrew Carpenean, Photographer

	Laramie \| WY \| USA \| Posted: 12:07 AM on 05.08.10
	->> Don't always assume the one(s) doing the hiring are always well polished. I've been on both sides of the bat as an applicant or the one doing the hiring. While my writing skills have improved over the years it sure doesn't hurt to use a word processor for spelling errors. Notice this one in the first paragraph: http://www.journalismjobs.com/Job_Listing.cfm?JobID=1168470

Dennis Wierzbicki, Photographer

	Plainfield \| IL \| USA \| Posted: 12:30 AM on 05.08.10
	->> A current headline from the online version of a major East coast newspaper "Editoiral: A Week in the Life of the Economy"

Robert Scheer, Photographer

	Indianapolis \| IN \| USA \| Posted: 7:39 PM on 05.08.10
	->> I couldn't agree more (usually misspoken as "I could agree more") with the spirit of this thread. It seems that English is butchered at every opportunity. Increasingly, I've wondered when the U.S. declared war on the apostrophe.

Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor

	Peoria \| AZ \| USA \| Posted: 10:53 PM on 05.08.10
	->> The US has declared was on the English language, PERIOD!! When I moved to the CONUS from Puerto Rico in 1982, I had to speak, read, write and understand the language. I did. What's the problem now???

Robert Scheer, Photographer

Indianapolis | IN | USA | Posted: 8:37 AM on 05.09.10

->> I hear you Yamil. I just feel that the worst blunders involve the poor, sad apostrophe. Seems like every day I pass a farm selling "asparagus' and tomato's," a golf course with a "ladie's and mens' tournament" or read about somebody's declaration that "its' going to be a great day!"

Like many of us, I speak to students periodically. Next time, before I get into the dog and pony show, I'm seriously thinking of leading off with a two-minute spiel on why apostrophes don't make things plural, and why knowing that might land you a job down the road.

David Harpe, Photographer

	Denver \| CO \| USA \| Posted: 9:09 AM on 05.09.10
	->> Things to watch out for: Ending sentences with prepositions. :-)

Robert Scheer, Photographer

	Indianapolis \| IN \| USA \| Posted: 12:29 PM on 05.09.10
	->> Doh! Nobody's perfect! :-)

Al Goldis, Photographer

East Lansing | MI | USA | Posted: 12:43 PM on 05.09.10

->> An oldie but any thread on grammar must include these tips:

1. Verbs has to agree with their subjects.
2. Prepositions are not words to end sentences with.
3. And don't start a sentence with a conjunction.
4. It is wrong to ever split an infinitive.
5. Avoid cliches like the plague. (They're old hat)
6. Also, always avoid annoying alliteration.
7. Be more or less specific.
8. Check to see if you have any words out.
9. Parenthetical remarks (however relevant) are (usually)unnecessary.
10. Also too, never, ever use repetitive redundancies.
11. No sentence fragments.
12. Contractions aren't necessary and shouldn't be used.
13. Foreign words and phrases are not apropos.
14. Do not be redundant; do not use more words than necessary; it's highly superfluous.
15. One should NEVER generalize.
16. Comparisons are as bad as cliches.
17. Don't use no double negatives.
18. Eschew ampersands & abbreviations, etc.
19. One-word sentences? Eliminate.
20. Analogies in writing are like feathers on a snake.
21. The passive voice is to be ignored.
22. Eliminate commas, that are, not necessary. Parenthetical words however should be enclosed in commas.
23. Never use a big word when a diminutive one would suffice.
24. Kill all exclamation points!!!
25. Use words correctly, irregardless of how others use them.
26. Understatement is always the absolute best way to put forth earth shaking ideas.
27. Use the apostrophe in it's proper place and omit it when its not needed.
28. Eliminate quotations. As Ralph Waldo Emerson said, "I hate quotations. Tell me what you know."
29. If you've heard it once, you've heard it a thousand times: Resist hyperbole; not one writer in a million can use it correctly.
30. Puns are for children, not groan readers.
31. Go around the barn at high noon to avoid colloquialisms.
32. Even IF a mixed metaphor sings, it should be derailed.
33. Who needs rhetorical questions?
34. Exaggeration is a billion times worse than understatement.

Dave Breen, Photographer

	Somerset \| PA \| USA \| Posted: 11:31 AM on 05.11.10
	->> Actually, we need to have open season on the apostrophe herds running rampant in this country. Without some type of control, they will find their way into all word's, and 'soon even 'spellcheck will let them pa''ss (an example of the new strain of double-apostrophe).

Robert Scheer, Photographer

	Indianapolis \| IN \| USA \| Posted: 5:45 AM on 05.12.10
	->> Double apostrophes? :-o That's one I haven't seen. Remember, apostrophes don't kill, people with apostrophes kill. Thanks for the list Al!

Jeff Jones, Photo Editor

Gallup | NM | USA | Posted: 6:20 PM on 05.13.10

->> Yamil,

the U.S. in fact DID declare war on the English language. It is part of our nation's history. When the nation was first forming some people were looking for ways to create a separate national identity that would help differentiate us from England. One of the methods of doing that was a book that has now become the Webster's dictionary. Originally Webster published a speller (1783) which had new spellings (center instead of centre for example) and it was a pronunciation guide. Only later were definitions added to the book. Webster claimed that the British Aristocracy had ruined the language.

We have been carving our own version of the language ever since.

Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor

	Peoria \| AZ \| USA \| Posted: 1:44 PM on 05.14.10
	->> Jeff, That is not the English I was referring to. I was referring on how some ins this country are not able to properly speak and write their own language and they are not willing to learn. 235 years have passed since we declared our independence from the UK, we figured out our language, let's use it properly! How hard can it be?

Baron Sekiya, Photographer, Photo Editor

	Hilo \| HI \| USA \| Posted: 10:23 PM on 05.14.10
	->> If you use Firefox or Chrome give the plugin After The Deadline a try. Not perfect but something you can add to help online. http://www.afterthedeadline.com/ Not available for Safari or IE :(

Dave Breen, Photographer

Somerset | PA | USA | Posted: 10:20 AM on 05.15.10

->> Don't elementary schools teach grammar and spelling anymore? Don't journalism schools teach proof-reading and editing?

Let's not rely completely on "spell-check" programs; let's speak and write correctly because it's a better way to communicate.

I assume most people posting here have a full keyboard in front of them, with a "shift" key and a "period" key. At least posters to this thread seem to know the rules and be willing to use them.

Steven E. Frischling, Photographer

	\| \| \| Posted: 10:35 AM on 05.15.10
	->> If only my spell checker could figure out what I was trying to spell :0)

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