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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Raincoats and the 1st Amendment
Joe Cavaretta, Photographer
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Ft Lauderdale | FL | USA | Posted: 8:12 AM on 04.28.10 |
->> Pathetic!
Lots of jokes on the thread about the cows and the arrest... but 50 people whining because somebody happens to put on a raincoat with a logo from another school...
I'm gonna side with Rose P of the OCR here. If I were a young student looking from the outside at this profession I'd see a bunch of people who are quick to condemn one another in public and who don't really give a sh*t or offer much help when something goes awry.
It was a raincoat. It was raining. Not like she intentionally put on a USC jersey cuz she was going out to a UCLA practice.
One of our own, a college SS member, gets arrested and handcuffed for taking pix at a police rodeo, and another student member here has his newsroom raided by police for shooting a campus riot...
but not nary a brain fart from the wise veterans here. No, lets save our intellectual energy for humiliating someone who tries to stay dry. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 8:35 AM on 04.28.10 |
| ->> well said, joe. well said. |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 10:03 AM on 04.28.10 |
->> Joe,
I'm pretty sure that you were the first to mention a name in this exchange. Until now, I had no idea who it was.
--Mark |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 10:34 AM on 04.28.10 |
| ->> mark, she responded to the thread yesterday. |
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Rick Rickman, Photographer
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Laguna Niguel | CA | USA | Posted: 12:19 PM on 04.28.10 |
->> Joe:
Thank you for having some common sense. I've been around this business long enough to have seen most of the members of this Sports Shooter group make some pretty dumb and embarrasing mistakes. I've made some of those same mistakes myself.
For someone to get up on a high horse and call some other photographer out for what most likely was an honest, unintentional mistake is pretty presumptuous and pompous.
What's going on in your heads these days? Yeah, there are some standards that we strive for in this business. Do we "always" make the right decisions? Probably not! All any of us can do is the best we can at any given moment and for the most part it seems to work out if our intentions are truly in the right place.
There's some pretty important stuff going on in this business that deserves serious attention and here you are dissing someone for some stupid mistake that in the long run doesn't add up to a hill of beans but gives you some reason to spout off and make yourself look righteous and important. Well, bubbas, get over yourselves and move on to something of substance in your life.
Maybe some of you have forgotten some of your stupid mistakes that probably caused you miss some pictures or put you out of position and your lack of attention made you miss great moments and what you wore to some event wasn't quite appropriate for the occasion, or, or, or ......
Maybe it's time to find a cause to champion that really makes a difference in this industry besides attire to a football practice in the rain. Try using your head and energy for something constructive for a change and being a journalist who really does make a difference by doing and talking about something meaningful. That would be refreshing!
Rick Rickman |
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Bradly J. Boner, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Jackson | WY | USA | Posted: 12:55 PM on 04.28.10 |
| ->> Not sure what this has to do with the First Amendment... |
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David A. Cantor, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Toledo | OH | USA | Posted: 1:19 PM on 04.28.10 |
->> Bradly,
Joe's hed obviously refers to the disparity of content on the message board; i.e. we should be more intent on the discussion of the diminution of 1st Amendment rights for news photographers than who wears what raingear/logo to a sports practice.... |
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Jacob Langston, Photographer
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Orlando | FL | | Posted: 3:07 PM on 04.28.10 |
->> Thank you Joe.
That original thread never should have been started. |
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Thomas Boyd, Photographer
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Portland | OR | USA | Posted: 3:23 PM on 04.28.10 |
| ->> I think if I had lost my head for a moment and posted that thread, I would now offer an apology to Rose after hearing her explanation. That's just me. I'm used to offering apologies. |
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Israel Shirk, Photographer, Assistant
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Boise | ID | US | Posted: 4:05 PM on 04.28.10 |
->> For those who might be hacked off at Robert and feel like spouting, please scroll up to the top and re-read the start of this thread.
Things happen sometimes. People have bad days and say things they don't intend to be a big deal. Or wear a poncho without worrying about the team.
It's just part of life. |
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
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Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 7:16 PM on 04.28.10 |
| ->> Can't see the forest for the...er, raincoat. |
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Diego James Robles, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Athens | OH | U.S. | Posted: 7:55 PM on 04.28.10 |
->> I think some good points have been made here about making mistakes. The bigger mistake seems to have been made by the blogger. Somebody also told me that the picture ran in the Times. I hope this is not true because it's unfair to Rose and the actual photographers in the Times world-class staff.
But I was compelled to write more because I once interned at The Orange County Register and Rose really went out of my way to help me. I made a ton of mistakes and didn't know where to go while shooting the Angels. She was really kind and in age of overworked staffers, made time to help me learn the ropes. It's people like this that you remember throughout your career. |
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Primoz Jeroncic, Photographer
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Kranj | SI | Slovenia | Posted: 2:20 AM on 04.29.10 |
->> > People have bad days and say things they don't intend to be a big deal. Or wear a poncho without worrying about the team.
I don't know how it's about you guys, but personally I go to match/race to shoot it and bring photos back. I don't go to cheer for any team, I don't even have my favorite team/racer, I don't care who wins or loses, so I definitely "don't worry about the team".
Being professional is not really about what color is your rain coat. And in case I missed something, and our professionalism is lately being judged by color of our dress, then someone is not being more professional either, when he shows up in any kind of team color (even if it's university jersey on pro game or vice versa, as it was stated in original thread as right thing to do). In my opinion only rule for professionalism is how good you do your job, and little things like Diego mentioned.
And if she was really kicked out of training, then it's not her problem, but problem of idiot who kicked her out. Unless they have stated journalists should be dressed as their mascots only, I don't think they have reason to kick anyone out. So if something is really wrong in all this, it's thing she got kicked out, not color/logo of her poncho.
But yes, I agree, I probably look on all this from a bit different point of view, considering I'm not living in USA. |
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Ric Tapia, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 3:17 AM on 04.29.10 |
| ->> The poncho thread is about the image of a professional photographer/journalist more than anything else. The photographer abviously packed a poncho and was prepared, but the photographer didn't for see the professional impact having a team logo would have. Instead of buying a poncho at a garage sale the photographer should have better prepared. |
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Sam Morris, Photographer
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Henderson (Las Vegas) | NV | USA | Posted: 4:48 AM on 04.29.10 |
->> Ric, et. al., I considered Robert's initial thread to be humorous. In the parlance of today's youth, an "OMG!" comment meant to be a light hearted take on a Southern California sporting rivalry (Bert, correct me if I'm wrong). I do not think it had anything to do with the sartorial comportment of photographers or the professionalism of the photographer.
Apparently that is what another train wreck of a thread was turned in to. And Joe is spot on in pointing out that this is a red herring of an "issue" when there are so many other important things in this industry to be concerned about.
And by the way, there wasn't a team logo on the poncho.
So, back to Joe's original point, where do you stand on the First and Fourth Amendment? Where do you stand on rights grabbing contracts and the downward spiral of our industry? What ideas do you have for educating people about the value of what we (and for the independent photographers, try to) do for a living? |
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Bob Ford, Photographer
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Lehighton | Pa | USA | Posted: 11:02 AM on 04.29.10 |
->> Sam, did you see Bert's second post in that thread?
"This isn't the "public". This is supposedly a professional journalist.
Hardly professional behavior
Nuff Said."
It doesn't look like he was going for humor to me. |
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Sam Morris, Photographer
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Henderson (Las Vegas) | NV | USA | Posted: 11:11 AM on 04.29.10 |
| ->> No I didn't catch his second post. Question answered. |
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
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Dallas | TX | US | Posted: 2:34 PM on 04.29.10 |
| ->> It's "foresee" ... |
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G.J. McCarthy, Photographer
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Dallas | TX | US | Posted: 2:50 PM on 04.29.10 |
->> You know, others have said it already, but the one thing in this whole mess that's perturbed me the most is the original blog post. No offense to the Times' excellent sports team, but really, content like that *can't* be what they had in mind when they joined the rest of our industry in going totally blog bat-shit crazy.
Which on some level I think is the deeper problem here. The horse is way out of the barn at this point, but we all helped create and foster this pseudo 24-hour news cycle mentality with newspaper blogs and such. There's always going to be that overwhelming force to post CONSTANTLY, to keep the readers there (or so we think) and advertisers happy. But, it's crap like this that's the unfortunate byproduct.
I feel for Rose. I mean, I can go all high-and-mighty and say she "should have known better," but you know what, we all [profanity] up. Every single one of us, especially in newspapering. The fortunate thing for most of us, however, is that we'll be spared having the mistake splashed across a couple of well-read Internet sites.
- gerry - |
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Nina Zhito, Photographer
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bay area | CA | | Posted: 3:56 PM on 04.29.10 |
| ->> i personally am appreciative of the insight that the bullying, mean-spirited, small-hearted personal attack offers into the true aloha spirit and values here. this is just the coolest circle-jerk ever. |
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Joe Cavaretta, Photographer
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Ft Lauderdale | FL | USA | Posted: 9:44 PM on 04.29.10 |
| ->> The intent was not to cause a dogpile in the other direction. I was only pointing out that as there are less and less of us, we seem to spend a lot of energy on things which are less than constructive to ourselves, our collective reputations and the way we conduct business. And I'm as guilty as anyone else. |
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Kevin Seale, Photographer
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Crawfordsville | IN | United States | Posted: 10:37 PM on 04.29.10 |
| ->> I miss posts with insights, instructions and ways to be a better photographer. I miss special features that talk about remote camera setups, using 3 bodies with 600's to make a 30fps Barry Bonds home run movie, KK carving his name in the Stanley cup. I miss the newsletter. I miss photo contest entries that were great photos, not great photoshop exhibitions. I miss Walter. I miss . . . |
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
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Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 11:58 PM on 04.29.10 |
->> Oh good grief.
"Can't see the forest for the trees."
Some are so wrapped up about "ethics" while completely ignoring the fact that one can be completely "ethical" while exhibiting the kind of bias that ethics were designed to prevent, while many "ethical" violations are quite overblown, i.e., putting on a raincoat when it is raining. |
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David Manning, Photographer
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Athens | GA | | Posted: 1:00 AM on 04.30.10 |
->> I think that we have to realize that we're in the public eye just as much as the people we cover.
We're going to be scrutinized by what we say, how we act, and what we wear by the same people whom we are trying to inform and work for.
This means that however innocent we may find it to be, someone is going to rush to judgement on it.
We as photojournalists have to be aware of it and do what we need to do in order to avoid unwanted scrutiny..... even if it is something as small as making sure that our ponchos don't say anything on it.
I echo G.J.'s comments in that we all F up. I don't like the pack mentality that devolved rapidly and instead of being a constructive conversation about what is considered professional attire on the sidelines, everyone is just bashing one another.
I also echo Kevin Seale's comments in that I miss the teaching and insights from those smarter & wiser than me... as well as everything else he said. |
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