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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Caught red-handed...
Martin McNeil, Photographer
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East Kilbride | Lanarkshire | United Kingdom | Posted: 7:45 AM on 04.15.10 |
->> Twice in the past month, I've come across instances where images I've shot have wound up being used commercially without either company asking for permission or paying and appropriate fee to do so.
Regarding company #1
First, they offered me a photo credit
When I rejected that and insisted on payment, they said that they don't pay for photos. When I persisted, they said they'd pay an agreed fee and remove the image BUT I had to prove the photo was mine, despite going to some initial lengths to do this in the first place. This issue is still ongoing.
Regarding company #2
I'm in the early stages of this one but the initial response was
"we understood the photos were clear to be used for promotional purposes."
Not true: I never furnished THEM with photos, a low-res was provided to an athelete's manager as a courtesy to show her what my client would be running
"To rectify the issue, and I hope you are a fan of our brand, I’d like to send you some merchandise. Send me your sizes and I’ll have them shipped this week"
Are you kidding me?? Naturally I've declined their offer and am insisting on getting paid but really - how commonplace is this behaviour - anyone out there care to share other tales of incredulity?
(FYI, company #2 had revenues of $7 million in their first year of trading) |
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Stew Milne, Photographer
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Providence | RI | USA | Posted: 8:33 AM on 04.15.10 |
->> I was shooting the Boston marathon and a shoe company representative asked to see my images. I sent hi lo-res, watermarked images and he wanted to use some of them, but explained he couldn't pay me for them. He offered shoes instead for payment. I explained that I needed to be paid in U.S. dollars. He declined, but sent me a pair of running shoes anyway. He wasn't a jerk about it, and it was nice of him to send me the shoes even though I didn't let him use my photos. A pair of $120 shoes isn't enough payment, especially when it costs the company about $15 to make them.
I just got paid for unauthorized usage of one of my photos on a realtors website. He fought it for about six months, before finally giving in, with the help of some corporate pressure. |
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Israel Shirk, Photographer, Assistant
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Boise | ID | US | Posted: 10:54 AM on 04.15.10 |
->> Bahahahaha!
Reminds me of a certain ski manufacturing company trying to "buy my photos" with a couple days worth of ski wax at the master's world cup (they had flown their racers from Europe and Russia to compete)... I just laughed and told them it was funny; they didn't get the joke for some reason! |
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Butch Miller, Photographer
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Lock Haven | PA | USA | Posted: 11:12 AM on 04.15.10 |
->> It's a growing mindset that photos have no value and that possession, or easy acquisition equals free use of whatever you can get your fingers on.
The sad fact is, we only hear about the illegal users that are caught. Undoubtably, there are possibly millions of images used in this manner, they just haven't been caught yet.
We've definitely become a "something for nothing" society when folks believe a trade of modest value product, after the fact, constitutes fair payment for use of the property of others.
I don't know how we as an industry stop this ... it is so prevalent and rampant ... how do we effectively police it? ... as there are so many ways to circumvent any form of protection.
On thing for sure is when you catch someone, don't let them off easy. Yet I don't think the few who get pinched will be enough to stem the tide. |
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Jason Jump, Photographer
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Humble | TX | USA | Posted: 8:13 PM on 04.15.10 |
->> I've actually had this happen several times. One was by a national company and I was paid their going rate with one phone call. VERY professional about the situation.
And what was crazy is that I would have never found out about it unless a message board that I frequented at the time hadn't posted the story from this website along with my photo on the message board.
Another company that is at least regional (don't think they have gone national yet) has used two of my photos without payment. One was on their website and he swore that the school sent out the photo with the press release, but unfortunately for him I got the same press release he received and my photo was not included.
Never got payment from them for either photo, although he did take it down. Which reminds me I need to check to see if they've taken any more recently :-(.
Company has a bad reputation of using photos and not paying for them in other publications.
"It's a growing mindset that photos have no value and that possession, or easy acquisition equals free use of whatever you can get your fingers on."
Sad to say, but I would have to agree with this. |
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Harrison Shull, Photographer
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Fayetteville, WV | Asheville, NC | | Posted: 8:47 PM on 04.15.10 |
->> A mentor of mine once told me that he would gladly take merchandise in exchange for photo usage. He would tell the offering party that this would work as long as they were able to convince his mortgage company, electrical utility, insurance companies, and other debt holders to accept their goods for the photog's liabilities.
May not get you far, but it sure is fun to hear them stammer on the other end of the line. This crap is rife in the biz. All you can do is register your images, have bombproof paperwork, and be a little bit lucky that you are dealing with clients who repsect your work. If not, pursue the infringers as much as you can. The only reason this crap goes on is because photogs have for far too long let it go on. |
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Mark Peters, Photographer
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Highland | IL | USA | Posted: 8:06 AM on 04.16.10 |
| ->> Barter has its place and can prove to be beneficial - providing that what is being offered is useful to you - or easily monetized. It may even be an opportunity to realize a value greater than the cash fee. |
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Martin McNeil, Photographer
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East Kilbride | Lanarkshire | United Kingdom | Posted: 9:31 AM on 04.16.10 |
->> Mark,
Sure; if they offered me a D3s then I might trade... chances of that happening? :) |
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Paul Zoeller, Photographer
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Summerville | SC | USA | Posted: 11:25 AM on 04.16.10 |
->> At least they are offering you something, I love how people assume since I shot this for someone and they paid me the images should be free to use after that.
I have bartered before but only when it was dollar for dollar and the goods were something I really wanted. |
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Butch Miller, Photographer
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Lock Haven | PA | USA | Posted: 12:55 PM on 04.16.10 |
->> "I have bartered before but only when it was dollar for dollar and the goods were something I really wanted."
Bartering is an age old honored tradition ... even recognized by the IRS if you document the transaction properly.
As quoted above, bartering only works when both parties feel the transaction is equitable .... token offerings after the fact is considerably one-sided ... unless of course B&H will accept running shoes as payment for goods ... |
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 1:13 PM on 04.16.10 |
->> This is what we deal with in an industry that also happens to be a huge and growing hobby. Nothing you can do but continue to separate yourself from the flotsam.
I have no problem with barter as long as it fits. Running shoes and ski wax does not fall into those categories, but other things might. Take each case on it's own merits. |
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Kolman Rosenberg, Photographer
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Mentor | OH | USA | Posted: 1:37 PM on 04.16.10 |
->> Had a couple of similar requests from a local magazine and business newspaper publisher. They would offer me a free add in their publications in exchange for photos.
I told them that when my grocery store decides to provide me with groceries in exchange for carrying my groceries in bags with their name on it and my gasoline company will give me gas for putting a decal on my car, then I might consider their offer! Until then, I need $$ to purchase my groceries and gas! |
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Nic Coury, Photographer
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Monterey | CA | | Posted: 2:20 PM on 04.16.10 |
->> I agree with Phil.
I love to complain about the industry as a pro photog and how it's not getting any easier, but complaining doesn't pay the bills either.
I've found you just gotta grin, bear it and keep going. We're not going to change it on the large scale, but change what you can, stand up for what you can and shoot, shoot, shoot.
I'm ok with trade too, if it's functional. I've told a few clients that trade doesn't pay the bills. They came back to me a few months later, because they really liked my work and it directly resulted in sales for them, so they wanted to continue to use me. |
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Sam Santilli, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Philippi | WV | USA | Posted: 2:50 PM on 04.16.10 |
| ->> A local guy here has shot alot of the strippers, wonder how he got paid??? BTW, he is currently running for a political office! |
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Alan Look, Photographer
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Bloomington/Normal | IL | United States | Posted: 4:05 PM on 04.16.10 |
->> "Bartering is an age old honored tradition ... even recognized by the IRS if you document the transaction properly."
It's recognized by the IRS whether you document the transaction or not. I think I would rather document it than them.
Strange, my images only get stolen by bloggers and they have nothing to barter. They normally get a nasty gram and in exchange, I get my image replaced by a boxed frame with a small x in the upper corner. |
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Jeff Jones, Photo Editor
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Gallup | NM | USA | Posted: 9:12 PM on 04.16.10 |
->> What are some methods of tracking your images - since we can't surf every site on the WWW and still make new photos, eat, sleep, breath....
There are web alerts out there - but are they reliable enough to count on them, or do people need to do more? |
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Butch Miller, Photographer
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Lock Haven | PA | USA | Posted: 10:06 PM on 04.16.10 |
| ->> I don't think there is a foolproof method yet for policing infringement on the net ... most often it is dumb luck or coincidence that we discover the misuse ... |
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Richard Uhlhorn, Photographer
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Chelan Falls | WA | USA | Posted: 10:11 PM on 04.16.10 |
->> Just retified a situation with a Real Estate Developer.
He tried to get my previous client to give him my images for use on his new webpage. She said No, that she had licensed them from me and that I owned them. Furthermore, she told him that when she was selling the project, she had spent $17,000 out of her own pocket to develop a logo, create a professional map of the property, purchase photos, print brochures, etc, etc.
She then asked him why she should let the other sales reps use her work without paying for it.
Finally, he called and we were able to come to terms on the use of some Stock and I will also be reshooting the development for his company.
Thank God for intelligent and honest clients.
Rich |
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