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YOU Can Do Much Better Than $200 Assignments!!
Manuello Paganelli, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | USA | Posted: 3:11 PM on 03.23.10 |
->> Folks it has been a while… I read some of the comments here and see that still so many of you don’t get it.
Is not about getting or not getting the $200 is about setting a standard of how you want your client to think of you. The client that you embraced for $200 or $400 is the same client you will have ten years from now. You think little you get little and the client will only call you for those shoots that are worth $200 bucks while probably calling someone else for bigger gigs.
Sadly the LOWEST FORM of photo paying and treatment is reserve for photojournalist. Why is that? The fault lays in all of us who arrive at this juncture by thinking “I love shooting pj I don’t care how much I make. I got the freedom to travel the world and visit new places, to do different things each day, to shoot famous folks, to cover super bowls, F1 racing, Barcelona vs. Liverpool futball matches, the World Series.” On paper all of that looks great and is even magnified when you are 20-30 yrs old. But later comes a family, mortgage, insurance is sky high, a new car is better than my old Pinto or simply put you just want a better lifestyle.
You still can do that but you need to think as a businessperson instead of “PJ who loves to shoot and the more I shoot the happier I am even if they don’t pay me crap.”
Whoever wrote this has never call me or send me an email.
“"No one educates photographers on how much to charge and established photographers are reluctant to share their rate cards or share how much they charge for services. I believe that needs to change."
They are plenty of successful photographers out there helping or willing to help photographers. We believe in sharing and making our profession a much better place for the next generation. I received plenty of email from folks all around with questions re the photo biz or even how a shoot was set up and, whenever possible and if I am not traveling, I answer those questions. Some of the folks from SS who had worked with me can attest to that. You can also go to www.EditorialPhoto.com EP which was formed in 1999 or so by freelance photographers. I was one of the early founders and in unity we’re able to contact a magazine, first client was BW magazine, and ask for better rates, better rights and more respect. We did what not other photo paying members organization was doing or should had been doing for us.
SO if you want to find out how successful photographers carry on their business affairs or the right way of dealing with a client, what fees to expect from a shoot, bidding or licensing an image then go there and be a dry sponge for there are lots of things to learn.
The moment PJ and sports shooters start thinking “hey I can make great money with my photography” instead of settling in for the first $200 photo gigs then your world will change. Make not mistake, if you are learning and $200 is good for you then go for it. The problem is when you had been in the biz for 3 or 5 yrs and still think that you are getting good deals. Or when you take the job without consulting with another established photographer , go to EP, or ask the right questions. The DoP who called you this morning with a $200 may had call another shooter in the different town for another job and with the same offer. That photographer was probably able to negotiate that photo shoot up to $500 or a lot more. OR perhaps that photographer was savvy enough and was able to say, “I would love to work for you but your day rate is $500 plus expenses.” There is a great chance that the PE didnt haggle and told the photographer without a curve or fastball "I can pay you $500 plus expenses" based on the photographers's reputation. What type of reputation you want your client to remember you by? Again folks, write this down, YOU THINK LITTLE YOU GET LITTLE.
PLEASE, don’t jump up in the air and say YES to the first offer. That is always the lowest. Even so you can say to the client on the phone, which is only a voice that you not intimidate you, “hey I am busy now please send me an email with all the details and I will get back to you soon. What was your name and the magazine again?” Then is your job to find out all about the magazine or this photo editor. Again go to EP or any other serious forum, by that I mean editorial photographers making a lot more than $1,000 per shoot, then post a comment and you maybe surprise how much more that Ph Ed is actually paying.
Invest your energy and creativity in creating shoots that will nailed you bigger clients. Instead of attending a workshop of an old “famous” photographer, with a magazine contract, just to show you photos of his/her 30 yrs photo career and how easy has been since there was always a paycheck arriving each week.
Most freelancers don’t have that choice or the blessings to have a decades safe contract. So instead try to attend one that deals with marketing, negotiating and how to become a better business person. Hell, one day you could be making A LOT more $$$ than any contract photographer you were admiring 5 yrs before. The point is to empowered yourself to make it happen since NOBODY is going to do it for you and NOBODY is going to lend you a hand. Just do it baby.
The other day a photo friend called me. I had been guiding him for 5 years now and he keep s on learning. The KEY word is learning and be willing to do so but also to put it on practice by changing your work habit and reframing your business brain so you can grasp that indeed there are other fruitful ways. He came from Italy 7 yrs ago with not photography under his belt and last year he made over 70K
A client called my friend for an adv photo shoot and the photos were going to be use for print ads, collateral, web etc. He thought that $3,000 was plenty. I told him that I get a lot more than that on plenty of my editorial shoots so why should he settle for such a low fees.
Told him that just the 2 assistants were going to be $500-750 then the pre and post production fees $500-700 (folks if you can do the pre and post fees then it can stay in your wallet or at least most of it)Finally I was able to show my Italian friend that he should be getting at least 10K plus expenses.
Two weeks ago I lost a bidding that should had given me, just for me, over 20K. They also asked me how much would a buyout be. I quote them 60K
They went with a different photographer that according to the client the reason was solely “based on styles.” I don’t know what really went down but I do hope that this photographer was able to keep his © rights or at least if a buy out took place to have charge the 60K I was asking for.
How do you go from making $200 to 1k and more? The first thing is to be honest with you. Do you have what it takes? Or at least do you have that talent to take you there with time? Start by comparing your own work to other top shooters. YOu got the net so is easy to see.
That is the main road to that open door and clients will notice and will start calling you.
“But I don’t have celebs on my book?” Folks it really doesn’t matter. IF you are talented clients will find you. In fact most folks shooting top editorials or adv campaigns don’t have celebs on their books.
But make not mistake, luck and been at the right place at the right time still matters. No every talented photographer will make it. That is the way it goes just like a singer or an actor.
But even so, you still should be able to fetch photo shoots worth a lot more than $500 and beyond.
I had been writing a blog on FB which, from time to time, also covers the business side. Welcome to drop by and hope you can learn a few things. If you think of a subject shoot me an email and I will talk about it too.
I leaned my biz, still doing it, the raw way when NOBODY was willing to share their biz knowledge with me. They were happy to show me their nice images during their national tour photo workshops and how great was to shoot for TOP MAGZ and all of that crap but NEVER how they negotiated their deals , how no to pissed off clients or the best way to say NO to bad deals. Ironically years later I figured out that plenty of those folks didn’t know much about running their business either or even the value of their images or © and that is why they couldnt share it then.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Los-Angeles-CA/Manuello-Paganelli-Photography...
Good luck and keep on shooting and asking the right questions!!
More 2 come
Manuello Paganelli
www.ManuelloPaganelli.com
Los Angeles California |
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Louis Lopez, Photographer
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Fontana | CA | USA | Posted: 9:11 PM on 03.23.10 |
| ->> Obviously everyone is talking about a different type of "Job" for $200.00 you do not need two assistants and everything else you listed to cover a prep basketball game. $200.00 is damn good money for yearbook coverage. |
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Andrew Knapik, Photographer, Assistant
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Lincoln Park | MI | USA | Posted: 10:10 PM on 03.23.10 |
| ->> Manuello - very well put. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 10:13 PM on 03.23.10 |
| ->> Manuella, with all due respect, I have read the things you write, and I agree with them, but the cold hard fact is there are a lot of markets out here in the real world (not the major metro areas you speak to) that just won't support that business model. I don't do a lot of freelance but I did in the past and I have to say some $200 jobs are worth $200. |
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Will Schneekloth, Student/Intern, Photographer
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New Brunswick | NJ | USA | Posted: 10:46 PM on 03.23.10 |
->> I didn't take away from this that Manuello is suggesting that photographers should expect to take away $10,000 to shoot prep sports for yearbooks. There are some $200 jobs worth $200; but that doesn't mean a photographer shooting prep sports for $200 now can't sell their talents to clients with larger budgets in the future.
The discussions the last week or so about this topic have been very encouraging to me in thinking about how I can utilize the tools available to confidently bid an appropriate, professionally supporting amount for a job where previously I would have just done three days of work for $400 because that was enough to cover my expenses in my current college lifestyle, which will only sustain me for another two months or so! |
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Jay Westcott, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | USA | Posted: 11:46 PM on 03.23.10 |
->> Think about Pulp Fiction for a second: Five Dollar Shake. Three little words that explain everything about business. "You mean milk, and ice cream, costs five dollars?" It's unreal how simple it really is. Folks, the thing that drives how much money you make is simple: perceived value. It's one of the things that I have the hardest time remembering from my car biz days. I was trained that the car is only worth what somebody is willing to pay for it, so as a salesman it was my job to make the experience of buying a car unlike any other and convince the customer that they were getting a good deal. In 1999 I sold one of the first Ford Excursions on the East Coast and the customer paid full sticker and then full retail for two accessories and asked me, "Jay, how can you sell it to me so cheap?" I made more off that one sale than most people here make in a month. I built value into the vehicle and in the purchase experience and ended up making the best commission of my sales career.
Now turn that Five Dollar Shake or that Ford Excursion into your photography skills and the pictures you make and BUILD VALUE. Figure out how to explain to people that your skills are worth what you are asking for and you will have a viable, sustainable business. It's different for everybody and every market, for sure. Your skills and photos are worth what somebody is willing to pay so convince them they are willing to pay top dollar. |
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Michael Coons, Photographer
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Simi Valley | CA | USA | Posted: 12:25 AM on 03.24.10 |
->> Can we clear up what type of assignments we are talking about? I feel this discussion is important but there are a lot of photographers on this site freelancing for local newspapers that would never receive more than $200 for prep sports or for covering a local assignment (like a street fair).
I would never do a major shoot involving assistants, hair and make-up and many hours of post for $200. But, if I freelance for a daily in a smaller market and get $100 to shoot prep basketball, I would consider that reasonable. Am I wrong with that thinking? Should I not work for any 50,000 circulation paper for less than $500 for a prep football game?
Also, $200 or even $500 mean different things around the country. I have relatives in Idaho that would live a great life for what I make in California. |
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Mike Janes, Photographer
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Attica | NY | USA | Posted: 12:54 AM on 03.24.10 |
->> I live in an area that has been going through a recession since the early 1990's, even when the rest of the country was in the up swing of the bubble later that decade.
Game coverage is cheap in the area, ranging from $50 - $200, the most I've actually heard was $250 and am not including the NFL/NHL teams in that because I'm simply not 100% positive in what they pay secondary shooters aside their main photographer. These rates include high school, college, newspapers, and other pro teams in the area though and of course are not major magazines or high budget clients. They are PJ style shoots, alone with no assistant, runner, or editor - just you going to shoot.
I know of one example who held out and demanded more, he's now shooting dirt cheap because every team/league in the area discontinued his services. For every area it's different and depends on what you're shooting. Commercial work is great, hard as hell to find in my area as most companies up and left town years ago! High end editorial does not exist in the area, that's for sure. There are only so many high end clients out there and can assure that a majority of members here are not getting those clients unfortunately.
There is an insane amount of photographers out there giving work away just to get in the door so you have to be picky in what, and area, you shoot. Demanding more than what the market you live in can pay though will not do any good. You have to look at your cost of doing business, what the rate is for your area and beyond, and base price off that. If you're not making what you need to live whatever you consider comfortably then you need to change it. Not all photographers will be high end, some will make it and others won't - nature of the beast.
So in short, yes get what you're work is worth but there are so many variables it cannot be across the board. There's high end editorial and commercial and mom wanting to hire someone to shoot Timmy at his first varsity game. Many levels to consider when doing pricing. |
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David Harpe, Photographer
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Denver | CO | USA | Posted: 1:37 AM on 03.24.10 |
->> If you run your business correctly, you can make a living out of $200 assignments or $20,000 assignments. Both are valid business models.
If you're doing a $200 gig, give them $200 worth of time and services, no more. If you can do a couple of quick portraits in your studio and have them done start to finish in less than a hour, $200 isn't a bad rate...particularly if you can get enough volume going.
If you're driving 50 miles to a stadium, spending an hour getting set up, three hours shooting, an hour of post, and another hour driving home, all while using 400's, 300's and pro bodies and only charging $200 with no rights to your photos, you aren't running your business correctly.
Not everyone wants to take on the responsibilities involved in doing $3,000, $4,000 or larger shoots. Not every market can support a photographer doing those types of shoots everyday. Some markets can only support $200 shoots. Some shooters LIKE doing smaller, easier shoots and doing a lot of them. Both are valid models as long as the numbers are tracked correctly.
Stop thinking in absolutes. It limits you. The only true absolute is to make sure you are running your business correctly - taking into account the true cost of doing business. The only assignments you need to turn down are the ones that don't fit your business model - whatever model you decide to use. Just be honest with yourself and keep track of the numbers and you will be fine. |
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Kevin Krows, Photographer
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Forsyth | IL | USA | Posted: 5:43 AM on 03.24.10 |
->> The assignment fee is only one revenue bucket. An assignment that pays $200 but also has the opportunity for selling prints, licensing, and creating future opportunity may be well worth it. You also need to consider that if you say NO too often you may not get many calls down the road.
Every opportunity needs to be measured carefully based on the bigger picture. If there isn't a big picture and the gig is a "one-hitter" you may want to hold your schedule open for a better opportunity .... that's just smart business in my book. |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 3:19 PM on 03.24.10 |
->> Two of my favorites on business - Manuello and David, have already chimed in with thoughtful words.
The reality is that we choose to be financially successful or unsuccessful - it's that simple. As I wrote previously and Dave also said, $200 works if it's a hour's worth of work. Take that times a 8 hour day times 5 days times 50 weeks and you're @ $400,000.
As for the local market not supporting better fees for sports - then the question is simple: "Why are you shooting it, then?" I gave up NFL because there wasn't enough money. Too many people chasing the credential willing to do it for free. Free?!@
Some of you will respond "Well, this is what I want to shoot". OK, shoot it, but you just proved my point: You choose to be financially unsuccessful. IF someone is only paying you $50 or $100 to shoot a NFL game when your cost are a $100, why do it? WHY DO IT?
Instead, find niches and areas that are untapped or unrecognized and fill the need. Take care of the client. Give them such good quality they don't want to go anywhere else.
That's what it's about: Doing the work. Doing it well. And getting paid for being a professional. |
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