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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Advise on Studio Strobes
Russ Erbe, Photographer
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Lubbock | TX | US | Posted: 10:31 AM on 03.11.10 |
->> Three weeks ago I ordered the Bowens Gemini Pro 500 two head kit from B&H. They still haven't even received it and they have no clue when they will. I don't have time to wait on it to just show up whenever. So, I'm probably going to cancel my order and go with something that I can get here in the states, as Bowens is a lighting company in the UK. Here is a link to what I ordered: http://www.bowensusa.com/content/pages/kitpro500500.html
I spent $1850 for the kit and $500 for the TravelPak battery. So, can I get some suggestions on a comparable studio kit that I can also take on location with a battery pack? |
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Brad Camp, Photographer
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Bainbridge Island | wa | USA | Posted: 10:49 AM on 03.11.10 |
| ->> The "black" alien bees have never failed me and take quite a beating--the new vagabond packs offer up tons of power and fast recycles. |
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Jim Prisching, Photographer
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Chicago | IL | USA | Posted: 10:52 AM on 03.11.10 |
| ->> The Elinchrom Ranger line would be my first choice. Also look at the Calumet Travelites, I believe they are the same as the Bowens. |
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Robert Hanashiro, Photographer
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Los Angeles | CA | | Posted: 11:02 AM on 03.11.10 |
->> For studio and on location: Dynalite.
Small. Versatile. Lightweight. Reliable. Moderately priced. Great for in-studio or on-location situations. Travels well. Add an XP1100 and you turn the strobes you already have into a stand-alone battery-powered system.
Can't say enough about Dynalite ...been using them for over 25 years.
Elinchrom and Profoto make great gear...I've used all three systems. Can't go wrong with any of them: Dynalite, Profoto, Elinchrom.
(One thing: I'm not big on mono-light systems. Just a personal thing.)
http://www.dynalite.com/index2.shtml
http://sportsshooteracademy.com/2010/02/05/the-guiding-light-2/ |
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Eric Canha, Photographer
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Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 11:07 AM on 03.11.10 |
->> Depends on how you are going to use them. I'm in Brad's camp (couldn't resist the pun) on the AB's and vagabond pack.... Unless there is a particular feature or # that you have to have..... I just picked up a second set of AB 800's and the new pop open softboxes, very nice.
Plus they have an affordable set of controllers that allow you manipulate output settings remotely. That, for me, is a HUGE selling point. I hate having to raise and lower lights to change output. I know that other companies have remote controls too, just not at Buff's price. |
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Eric Canha, Photographer
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Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 11:10 AM on 03.11.10 |
->> Robert can I ask why you prefer packs over mono's? You're not alone and I'd love some insight. For me the idea of a pack going poof and losing 3 heads is the risk over monobloc. Just looking for what makes the pack a stronger choice.
-E |
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Justin Rumbach, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Jasper | IN | USA | Posted: 11:32 AM on 03.11.10 |
->> Another vote for Alien Bees.
Paul C. Buff (maker of Alien Bees) also has phenomenal customer service. |
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Russ Erbe, Photographer
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Lubbock | TX | US | Posted: 12:25 PM on 03.11.10 |
->> I'm really thinking of going with the Profoto V1 Air studio kit 500/500. I recently took a portrait lighting class from a local Pro and he had the 1000/1000 kit and absolutely loves them and I got to use them myself and was really amazed at the quality of them. The kit would only cost me $300 more than I'm into the Bowens kit. I would just be trading a battery for remote control triggering, which I would eventually need anyway. Here is a link
http://www.profoto.com/products/profoto/generators/d1/d1-500-air
Here is a link to the kit on amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Profoto-901053-Studio-Kit-Black/dp/B0020MHD4W
Does anyone else here happen to have these?
BTW, thanks everyone for your input so far. Robert, I had forgotten the name Profoto. Thanks for reminding me what to look for.
Jim I looked at the Travelites and got excited when I saw that are interchangable with Bowens accesories, however after reviewing the specs, they seem to be a cheaper version with less capabilites. I don't want to go backwareds from what I already ordered. Thanks for the advise though. |
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Russ Erbe, Photographer
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Lubbock | TX | US | Posted: 12:44 PM on 03.11.10 |
| ->> The only issue with the ProFoto is that they don't make a travelpak battery. So, to take the strobes on location outside, I would need a generator. Do any of you use little generators on site? Are they safe from power surges? I would hate to throw down $2800 on a lighting kit only to have it burned up by a $300 generator. |
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Andrew Scott, Photo Editor, Photographer
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McLean | VA | United States | Posted: 12:45 PM on 03.11.10 |
->> I'm with Bert on DynaLite, but I really like their monolights.
I've had several of the UniJr 400's for over 10 years and they work great. Same attributes as the Dyna pack/head system (durable/reliable/great quality of light), plus you can use them with Jackrabbit battery packs for remote locations if no AC is available and they pack up very compactly.
I've only ever had to have a single one serviced (and that was because someone knocked it over from full height stand onto concrete) and their service is quick and reasonably priced. Dyna accessories are readily available at decent prices.
If you need 1000 ws/ get a pack/head combo, if not, the UniJr's work great. The only real drawback to Uni's is the duration is a bit long for sports. |
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Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 12:52 PM on 03.11.10 |
->> +1 On the Alien Bees!!
Even though I have been a Speedotron Black Line user for over 25 Years, I like the Alien Bees.
I use Speedotron 1205, 2401B and 2403B packs with 102a Heads. They are the sturdiest system I have worked with, but they don't travel well, they are heavy and large. Even though Speedotron makes a Battery operated pack, it's still heavy. Like Eric said, if you blow a pack, you loose the ability to use the heads attached to the blown pack.
On location, there's nothing better than Alien Bees.
I got into a friendly debate with a Salesman at my local store last week, he was trying to convince me an how much better ProPhoto was over Speedotron. I couldn't see it his way, I have used Speedotron since 1984 and I can't see me paying 10X more for a pack and lights that won't make my images any better. I might be wrong, but I can't justify the expense, I'm not going to get paid that much more if I switched to ProPhoto. |
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Robert Seale, Photographer
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Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 1:03 PM on 03.11.10 |
->> Listen to Bert.
All you Alien Bee fans....go try to rent AB gear to supplement your own for a big shoot. Good luck. No one rents it - anywhere...and there's probably a good reason for that.
Stick with one of the major brands and you'll be ok.
Profoto
Dynalite
Elinchrom
are all good choices. |
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Daniel Putz, Photographer
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Daniel Putz, Photographer
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Jason Joseph, Photographer
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Dublin | OH | USA | Posted: 1:14 PM on 03.11.10 |
| ->> FWIW, I have the previous generation of the Bowens kit that you ordered along with a Travel Pak and a Travel Pak+. They have held up really well and have given very consistent output throughout the 3 years that I have had them. They have been on stands that have toppled over, bounced around in Pelican cases and used in heavy snowfall with no failures. (I realize that after reading this, no one will ever buy them from me which I am okay with b/c I'm not planning to sell them) My only wish is that they had a shorter flash duration, but for portraits and non action shots they are great. Midwest Photo, here in Columbus also sells them and will match B&H prices. And yes, they are essentially the same as the Calumet monolights. |
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Russ Erbe, Photographer
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Lubbock | TX | US | Posted: 1:27 PM on 03.11.10 |
| ->> Jason, the Bowens Pro version that I ordered has a flash duration up to 1/2900. So, if you're wanting something faster, you could trade up. The Profoto kit that I'm looking at has duration up to 1/2600. |
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Yamil Sued, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Peoria | AZ | USA | Posted: 1:32 PM on 03.11.10 |
->> With he Alien Bees Prices, you don't need to rent you can afford to buy a fairly good Kit and if you have a good Kit, you don't need to Rent. Paul C Buff has super service and they take care of repairs in a super fast way too. And, if you have a BIG Shoot, you should have enough Backup gear to cover you in case of the unexpected, that is the professional thing to do. I have enough backup gear to cover me over and over again
OTOH, if you want Bullet Proof, buy Speedotron!! My oldest pack is over 24 years old and it has never been in for repair once!! The only Speedo Packs I've had to repair are the ones that I've purchased second hand and I don't know how they were used. |
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Debra L Rothenberg, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 2:27 PM on 03.11.10 |
->> I use the Dynalite Uni's on location but I have one gripe about them-the head cover is the worst design ever. I have to fight with it to get it off, and in the process half the time the tube comes out of the socket. Other than that, I love them and they work perfectly with my Vagabond
I have been thinking of selling them to get some alienbees since they seem like they can take more abuse. |
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Stephen Lam, Photographer, Assistant
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San Francisco | CA | USA | Posted: 4:00 PM on 03.11.10 |
->> I happened to try a set of Profoto D1 air kit yesterday. Good lights, nicely build and consistent. I have to say, however, that monolights are much harder to adjust because you have to lower the lights just to change power. It might not seems that big of a deal, but it is esp. if you already settled on the positions of lights.
Personally I use Profoto Acutes and 7b for my work. Super easy to rent stuff and very durable. The 7B is pretty much my go-to pack since it's battery-powered. It was definitely a pricy purchase, but a good investment and the 7B have a very solid track record.
Dynalites and Elinchrom are very solid system as well. |
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Russ Erbe, Photographer
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Lubbock | TX | US | Posted: 4:42 PM on 03.11.10 |
| ->> Thanks everyone for your input. Still nobody has mentioned using small generators on location when there is no electricity. I've read that Honda generators have a voltage regulator so they won't surge your strobes. |
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Todd Spoth, Photographer, Student/Intern
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Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 5:18 PM on 03.11.10 |
->> "The only issue with the ProFoto is that they don't make a travelpak battery. So, to take the strobes on location outside, I would need a generator. Do any of you use little generators on site? Are they safe from power surges? I would hate to throw down $2800 on a lighting kit only to have it burned up by a $300 generator."
Profoto has a few different options for battery powered packs. I have the 7B stuff and it works great.
Its pricey, but you get what you pay for. I have used Dynalite, Profoto, Elinchrom, and Alien Bees extensively and Profoto is what I settled on for my personal gear.
-T |
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Jim Colburn, Photo Editor, Photographer
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McAllen | TX | USA | Posted: 5:21 PM on 03.11.10 |
->> "All you Alien Bee fans....go try to rent AB gear to supplement your own for a big shoot."
Why bother? Just buy some more AB stuff. It'd wind about costing about the same as renting something else. |
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Geoffrey Bolte, Photographer, Assistant
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Spencer/Worcester | MA | USA | Posted: 6:29 PM on 03.11.10 |
->> Finally got around to being able to purchase a decent lighting kit. Ended up with some Elinchrom BX400s for now. I need something that was a little more portable than my Speedotron 2405CX kit as I have been doing a lot more traveling and lugging along 50 pounds+ of gear was becoming a pain.
Happy with my purchase and after doing some portrait work will be picking up a few 600RXs and possibly 1200Rxs if I need the power. |
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Stanley Leary, Photographer
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Roswell | GA | USA | Posted: 8:20 PM on 03.11.10 |
->> Alienbees all the way. Try the new Einstein's. They have everything you could ever want in my opinion.
I owned Dynalights for years and they went into the shop all the time. They were gone forever too.
Owned Calumets, shot with Black and Brown lines, Normans and Novatrons.
Alienbees never in the shop. My White-lightning did go to the shop, but turned around in a day or two.
Why buy overpriced dynalights when you can buy lights for 1/2 the price, get better service and does a great job.
Look at Keith Ladzinsky's work http://www.ladzinski.com He uses the Alienbees and hangs them from the side of cliffs while rock climbing. Dude is incredible.
Alienbees are bought by folks who can afford whatever they want, but choose them for reliability and great service.
Never will you hear anyone talk about the great service from Dynalights like you hear on this forum like Paul Bluff. |
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David Russell, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 8:24 PM on 03.11.10 |
->> If your budget is tight, try to find a used Dynalite kit.
And White Lightning/Alien Bees strobes are probably the best budget strobes out there. I'd totally consider them. |
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Alan Look, Photographer
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Bloomington/Normal | IL | United States | Posted: 10:15 PM on 03.11.10 |
->> This is looking kind of like a what kind of sock should I buy thread :) Nike, Addidas or Burlington...
I like my alien's. Light weight, easy to pack and set up. But, if I were setting up a studio and had all the money to spend that I wanted, it would be Elin's or Speedo's ( does Speedo make socks?). |
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David Russell, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 10:22 PM on 03.11.10 |
| ->> If money was no object and I was working in a studio only, I'd get into the Profoto D system. The level of control is ridiculous. |
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Jesse Beals, Photographer
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Tracyton | WA | USA | Posted: 11:06 PM on 03.11.10 |
| ->> I also use the black 800 Alien Bees. They are work horses for sure. |
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Kevin Seale, Photographer
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Crawfordsville | IN | United States | Posted: 12:17 AM on 03.12.10 |
->> Regarding generators, Honda makes several that work. Here is a link.
http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/models.aspx?page=models§ion...
I am an Elinchrom guy and have a couple of Rangers so have never messed with a generator but did read a post by Chase Jarvis where he talks about the Hondas. If I remember correctly, he was using the EU3000. I also have Elinchrom 600RX's and am a big fan of Elinchrom stuff but it is kinda pricy. It's not Profoto expensive but will still make your wallet thinner pretty quickly.
Hope that helps. |
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Eric Canha, Photographer
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Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 7:55 AM on 03.12.10 |
->> If I were setting up a new studio and had all the money in the world...... I be even MORE likely to go with BEEs. Lets face it, one of the big fears that people have are the plastic cases. In a studio setting where they aren't being carted all over the planet that fear goes out the window.
On the subject of having to adjust output and having to raise and lower stands. I am so there with you on that peeve. In my case the school that I was strobing had windows that allowed the setting sun to traverse the gym. So from the time I'd set up the lights to the time the final game had started, the lighting in the gym had shifted 180 degrees and at the end when the sun had set the gym was back to balanced darkness. The AB's have the ability to have their output and other settings controlled remotely.
I still have a set of the original RF controllers that address each head and let me setup a lighting scheme and then dial in settings. The newer Cyber Sync let you do all that AND save lighting plots to a memory card. I even have it on good authority that Buff is coming out with an RF version of the LG4x. Say what you will about Buff, he DOES manage to bring to market affordable gear that has all the features at a fraction of the price. Add up the cost of putting a similar remote kit on 4 lights and a programmable controller and compare that to 4 csr+ and a cyber commander.
The only real gripe that I have with the AB's is the wimpy modeling lamp. If anyone at Buff is reading this, PLEASE beef up the lamp circuit so that we can use 250w bulbs OR come up with a plan for modifying existing units. I'll happily send my 800's in to have the mods made.
Like everything else, no one piece of gear fits every need. If you need to dump 2400 watts on a court 300 feet from the catwalk then AB's aren't the answer. In this case the original purchase was for 500ws mono's. With the exception of the flash duration, the rest of the numbers are negligible values. On the subject of flash duration, the is another recent thread on AB's that does a wonderful job of demonstrating what can be done when the AB's are properly setup. |
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Alan Look, Photographer
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Bloomington/Normal | IL | United States | Posted: 8:36 AM on 03.12.10 |
->> Why would I use elins or Speedos instead of bees? I like the large assortment of accessories provided by a large variety of vendors that are available. Yes, most of those can be adjusted for the bees, but why bother with having to fit when they are already made to fit the elins or speedos. Dynas probably fit this category too.
I know in recent years bee accessories have been catching up, but the wide variety still escapes that of the other vendors in my eyes. |
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Alan Herzberg, Photographer
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Anthony Sanson, Photographer
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Warsaw | IN | | Posted: 9:29 AM on 03.12.10 |
->> For studio and on location: Dynalite.
For studio only: Speedotron Force 10
I lug the Force 10s around on location and love them....heavy, yes. |
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Russ Erbe, Photographer
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Lubbock | TX | US | Posted: 9:56 AM on 03.12.10 |
| ->> Wow, I'm really surprised at just how many fans there are here of AB's. Paul seems to have got himself a cult like group of hard core users. That definately stands for something. Thanks all for your input. I just cancelled my order for the Bowens with B&H as it's been over 3 weeks and all they could tell me was that the kit "Should" be in sometime next week. I think that is terrible customer service. So, I'll just have to decide on another kit and a new camera store for sure! |
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Debra L Rothenberg, Photographer
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New York | NY | USA | Posted: 9:58 AM on 03.12.10 |
| ->> Russ-the Vagabond is a generator. I have used mine on an all day shoot with 3 Dynalite heads and the 1000 pack, a MAC laptop and even charged my Blackberry and it never failed |
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Dave Prelosky, Photographer
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Lower Burrell | Pa | US | Posted: 10:13 AM on 03.12.10 |
| ->> Russ, at the risk of going off on a tangent, would you have a dealer *promise* delivery of goods that weren't on hand, in transit, or possibly hadn't been manufactured yet? |
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Russ Erbe, Photographer
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Lubbock | TX | US | Posted: 10:39 AM on 03.12.10 |
->> Hey Debra
Thanks alot for the info on a Vagabond. That seems like a very good idea! It's much cheaper than a generator and of course much more travel friendly. I'm sure I can fit the Vagabond in a suitcase when flying. While researching it, I also ran across this battery that some folks seem to be even more impressed with:
http://www.innovatronix.com/explorerXT.asp |
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Eric Canha, Photographer
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Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 10:46 AM on 03.12.10 |
->> Russ not to pile on to B&H but their service has fallen off over the last year or 2. Used to be that if you placed an order before say 2pm it went out that day..... I used to order a piece of gear Thursday and have it in time for the weekend without paying for next day shipping (NY--->Boston is 1 day transit). Now the order sits until the next day to be processed.
Whenever possible I try to go with Jeff and Adorama because they DO get the order out the door..... Unfortunately for me the last item I needed was out of stock at Adorama and my local Calumet so B&H got my $$ by attrition.
Alan what modifiers do you use that can't be found for the bees? I'm not saying you're wrong, just curious what I may be missing out on. |
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Russ Erbe, Photographer
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Lubbock | TX | US | Posted: 10:51 AM on 03.12.10 |
->> Dave,
I would simply expect a dealer to provide me with a tracking number to show that the item has indeed been shipped to them or at least speak to someone who might say, I can't give you a tracking number, but I can tell you for certain that it was shipped on this day and is scheduled to arrive on this day and if it doesn't, we will do something for you for having to wait a month. I have been calling everyday this week asking for updates and the customer service I've gotten hasn't been good. Nobody there cares if I just spent $2300 with them and don't have my stuff after 3 weeks and still not certain when I will get it. I guess that is just typical when you deal with a really big reseller. You simply don't get personal attention. Oh well, life goes on. I figure if I was meant to have that kit, I would have gotten it. So, I'm really not too upset with the situation anymore, other than I have a senior portrait session next week and won't have my new strobes to do it with. |
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Michael Granse, Photographer
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Urbana | IL | USA | Posted: 10:56 AM on 03.12.10 |
| ->> I have been using the White Lightning X1600's for eight trouble free years now, but PLEASE don't tell anyone because if word gets out that my strobes were not made by Elinchrom people will probably stop liking my photographs. We can just let this be our little secret :) |
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Matt Zimmerman, Photographer, Assistant
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Walla Walla | WA | USA and Quito, Ecuador | Posted: 6:53 PM on 06.08.11 |
->> Russ - what did you end up going with???
I see Speedos mentioned here. Thoughts on them?
I have two Elinchrom Style 600s monoblocs that I like alright. One was damaged in a car accident and insurance is paying for replacement. I'm now re-evaluating where to go from here. The hassle of adjusting the monoblocs is really getting to me.
I recently purchased a Vegabond Mini and have been quite happy with its performance using one or both of the Elinchrom units. I am open to selling the usable Style 600s and Vegabond Mini though for a better option.
I need a portable location lighting kit for mostly fast paced, on the move wedding work. Some portraits and some action sports as well. Power from external battery or built-in unit is fine. Flash duration is a factor. Sturdy connection point for light modifiers is also very important!
Considering the following:
Profoto ...? 7b is the best option?
Speedotron Explorer 2-Light System
Elinchrom Quadra Kit
Buff's Einsteins (2) w/ Vegabond Mini
All have the same two-light limitation with their respective power packs. Any out there with 3-4 light asymmetrical options (that don't break the bank)? |
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Delane B. Rouse, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | US | Posted: 7:19 PM on 06.08.11 |
| ->> LIke Neil turner at http://www.dg28.com/ I just bought a 2nd Elinchrom Quarda Ranger pack/head combo. I love, LOVE, L-O-V-E everything about them (except the price). |
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Brian Tietz, Photographer
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Fort Myers | FL | USA | Posted: 7:32 PM on 06.08.11 |
->> I started with Alien Bees and they were great for the money, as I grew as a photographer I did notice some quality issues and switched to Dynalite and haven't regretted it. People always rave about customer service from Buff and I have to admit that the multiple trips my Alien bees made to TN every year repairs were cheap and turnaround was fast. However in almost 3 years I have never had to send my Dyna packs or heads in for repair.
I used the dyna packs with a honda eu2000i on location and they worked great except for the having to lug the genny around.
This year I started looking at battery packs and picked up a used Broncolor mobil kit, worked great but the recycle time (6 sec) at full power was annoying.
I finally settled with an Elinchrom Ranger Speed AS kit and have been a huge fan of using that for quick one light portraits. Its 1100w/s and with the Pocketwizard ST-4 and a Mini-tt1 I can easily control the power output from my camera. Still love my Dynalites and use them in studio and still drag them out on bigger shoots with the eu2000, but the Elinchrom kit has been rock solid. |
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Dan Powers, Photographer
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Appleton | WI | USA | Posted: 8:06 AM on 06.09.11 |
->> Russ,
Not sure if I'm supposed to mention this on a post like this, but we have a bunch of Dynalite 400jr kits that we are looking to sell. Blast me an email if your or anyone is interested...Dan. |
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Randy Tobias, Photographer
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Wichita | KS | USA | Posted: 8:29 AM on 06.09.11 |
->> Perhaps someone mentioned it in one of the previous posts, but Profoto does make a very nice inverter/travel pack called the Batpac. It was introduced shortly after the D1 monolights and works perfectly with them, but also with the Acute-series packs. Can also be used to power laptops, etc. The D1 monolights are fantastic by the way. I still prefer my pack and head system, but that's just a preference. Check out the batpac and see if it might fit your needs, along with the D1 lights. Good luck.
Randy |
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