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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Sports workflow at the stadium?
Mat Gdowski, Photographer
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Las Vegas | NV | USA | Posted: 1:46 PM on 03.06.10 |
->> Hey all,
I was wondering what you pro photographers do for a sports workflow when you're at the actual stadium? I have some shoots coming up where I need to submit photos at half time (or in between periods) and at the end of the game and then after the game as well. I know I have some time after the game to go through the shots, but I know it's important to have a fast, accurate workflow while at the stadium and that's what I'm looking for (both types of workflow, if they differ).
So, I'd like to know what people do (what programs they generally use & the type of processes they do in their workflow) from the time they stop clicking the shutter at half time until they upload their photos to their photo desk or media client.
I'm just curious of what programs you use and what flow you use. Plus, if you could let me know if you shoot in RAW or JPG, it would be appreciated as well, as I'm sure it changes the workflow.
I've looked up some workflow on the net, but it seems like everything is old (2006 or older) and I know that there have been some programs, such as Lightroom, that have come out since then and I'm sure that would make a difference as well. Either that or it tends to be geared towards doing portraits or weddings and not sports.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. If if matters, I will be shooting with a Canon 1D Mark II-N, 70-200mm f/2.8L (non-IS) and a 17-40mm f/4L for now. I'm trying to get a 400, as I know it's invaluable for sports. I'll be shooting hockey, AMA Supercross, possibly basketball and some football games.
Thanks in advance!
Mat G. |
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Rick Osentoski, Photographer
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Tom Gannam, Photographer
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St. Louis | MO | USA | Posted: 2:01 PM on 03.06.10 |
->> When I am covering any sport for the AP i.e. football, baseball, hockey , hoops etc, we use photo mechanic to edit and select,photoshop to prep and mechanic to transmit or the ftp client of your choice. This works well with both raw and jpeg although working with just the jpegs is considerably faster. Another time saver is to have your IPTC info pre-entered and added to your images on ingest then utilize the code replacement feature in photo mechanic to make your captioning streamlined.
This is the basic workflow we use if it is a single shooter doing it all alone or if there are multiple shooters. This flow allows us to get the maximum amount of work done between periods, quarters or halves, depending on the sport. hope this helps. |
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John Korduner, Photographer
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Baton Rouge | LA | United States | Posted: 3:28 PM on 03.06.10 |
| ->> I don't sweat the workflow, I sweat the details. In a perfect world, 10-20 photos should take ten minutes to send. In the real world??? Last year I missed nearly the entire 3rd quarter of a game because I went to the pressbox to send photos... All because I didn't realize Puskar Field had a field level photo area and I couldn't get an FTP connection. If I'd spent less time watching the cheerleaders before the game, and a little more time familiarizing myself I would've been just fine. |
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Colin Heyburn, Photographer
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ARMAGH | NI | United Kingdom | Posted: 4:10 PM on 03.06.10 |
| ->> Nothing wrong with watching cheerleader. Seems like a good idea to me. We do not have them over here sadly. I use Lightroom and transmit either on wireless if lucky or 3G back to the agency. |
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Mat Gdowski, Photographer
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Las Vegas | NV | USA | Posted: 9:35 PM on 03.06.10 |
->> Hey there Rick,
Thanks a bunch! I just saw that post after I had already posted this and left for work. :-( Sorry about that. I looked up workflow and not post processing when I did my search or I wouldn't have duplicated the topic. Ooops!
I did read through that post and it has a lot of great responses. I appreciate the info & heads up.
Tom - Thanks for the heads up...the media company also suggested to have the IPTC already filled out and ready to go before even going to the stadium, so really I just need to work on the caption before sending. :-) I appreciate the tip!
John - LOL...that would be my luck as well! Luckily, there isn't too many stadiums here in Las Vegas to shoot at. :-)
I just picked up Lightroom and was thinking about incorporating it into my workflow. It appears that it should make things easier for me. So far, this is what I was "planning" on doing before I wrote my post asking for assistance and waiting to see what others did.
1) Shoot RAW
2) Ingest into PhotoMechanic, rename, set the IPTC info, pick the selects
3) Bring selects into Lightroom (which I haven't really used yet) and crop (if necessary), adjust white balance, exposure, levels, contrast, saturation, and ???
4) Export from Lightroom as JPG & resize down under 2mb
5) Reimport 2mb JPG's into LR or PM to upload to media server
I think that's it. I know it will take practice to get it down pat and go faster in between halves/periods, but if I have a system down first, then I can practice on getting a faster rhythm with it. :-)
Again, I appreciate the info!
Mat G. |
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Matthew Bush, Photographer
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Hattiesburg | MS | USA | Posted: 9:54 PM on 03.06.10 |
->> This is how it went for me this year covering New Orleans
1) Shoot
2) Injest
3) Bring up PM and make selections and apply a boiler plate cutline
4) Tell myself that I am the bomb.
5) look across the table to where the Sports Illustrated guys are set up and see the images they are working on .
6) look at my images again which do not seem so great anymore
6) consider a career in dish washing
7) edit (an action that runs levels, curves, contrast and color balance and a little sharpening)
8) caption using code replacement
9) send in Photo Mechanic as I complete each image
10 )repeat after the game. |
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Mat Gdowski, Photographer
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Las Vegas | NV | USA | Posted: 12:44 AM on 03.07.10 |
->> Thanks for the info Matthew!
How do you guys set up an action that runs levels? I always thought that was more individual to each photo? I can understand curves because you can just set up the slight S and kind of be done with it, but for levels and moving the white/black sliders, that will change for each photo, how does an action accomplish this properly?
Plus, when you're talking about color balancing, are you talking about more than just a white balance correction? Are you also talking about saturation or ???
Thanks!
Mat |
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Matthew Bush, Photographer
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Hattiesburg | MS | USA | Posted: 12:45 AM on 03.07.10 |
| ->> Mat- One thing I failed to mention that I am sure that will be echoed is bring Cat 5 cable and a powerstrip. There is sometimes not enough ports to hook up especially if the event is crowded. It is hard to start editing your stuff when you have no juice. Also look into a 3g card. I know there are some pre-paid ones on the market now but its always good to have a backup to the stadiums wireless connection. |
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Mat Gdowski, Photographer
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Las Vegas | NV | USA | Posted: 2:39 AM on 03.07.10 |
->> Matthew...thanks, good tip! I usually carry Cat5 cables with my laptop anyway, but I probably wouldn't have thought of the powerstrip. :-) I guess I need to get a cablelock for my laptop too, eh? Do most people just lock their laptops up and leave them there while they are down on the floor shooting?
The only stadium I was in the media room a bunch was California Speedway and I know a lot of people just locked up their laptops with a cable, but I'm still paranoid of someone just clipping the cable and taking my laptop. However, trecking out to the car each time to get my laptop isn't a fun prospect either! :-( |
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Matthew Bush, Photographer
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Hattiesburg | MS | USA | Posted: 12:24 PM on 03.07.10 |
->> It pulls up the menu item for each. I still control the adjustments. It just speeds things along. (left click when your creating an action and I believe it is insert menu item)
I increase each image by about 5 % saturation automatically and then work on the white balance. |
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Israel Shirk, Photographer, Assistant
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Boise | ID | US | Posted: 1:34 PM on 03.07.10 |
->> I usually just do everything through Photo Mechanic like others have mentioned, then bring selects straight into photoshop's camera raw and do adjustments there.
Also in ACR it helps to select multiple photos (all the ones for a given lighting situation or position), edit them together and then tweak individuals slightly.
I used to do the photoshop action thing before I shot raw all the time - in the actions palette, you just hit record, do your desired workflow on one photo, then hit stop. After that, there are little checkboxes on the left next to each individual action. One enables/disables a step (it's a check), the other is badly shriveled dialog box - having it enabled will pop up the box and have you put in new settings each time. That's just for PS though - not as familiar with LR. |
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Margaret Bowles, Photographer
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Houston | TX | | Posted: 2:50 PM on 03.07.10 |
->> Also, get there really early, take some pre-game shots and run through the entire process before the game starts so you can work out the bugs. When you sit down to ingest at halftime, you will want to hit the ground running.
It's also helpful to mark your good shots in camera as you take them and set it up in Photomechanic so that they come up first when you ingest them. People think you're chimping, but you are really starting your editing process on the field.
It still blows me away how fast everyone is. I'm always one of the last ones to finish. |
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Daniel Berman, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Seattle | WA | US | Posted: 3:05 PM on 03.07.10 |
->> Margaret is correct, tag your pictures with the "lock" and when you are ingesting in PhotoMechanic, choose the setting that says ingest locked photos only. That way, you are only sifting through your pre-selected photos -- this will save you download time, and will help you immensely. Additionally, make sure you have a generic caption set up to download with each picture, that way you only have to add names and uniform numbers.
With that system, I can get out a dozen or more pictures at half-time. |
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Mat Gdowski, Photographer
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Las Vegas | NV | USA | Posted: 12:59 AM on 03.08.10 |
->> Well Margaret...you won't be last any more. It will probably be me. LOL :-D But thanks for the info.
I appreciate the tips from everyone. I've been refining my process on some of my shots I've done before & practicing like I just shot them, downloading them and going through the process. I'm definitely putting all this info into practice. :-)
I do have a question about white balance though. Do any of you shoot a gray card before the event starts? If you do, do you use that as your custom WB in your camera before you start shooting or do you just use that photo to adjust your WB for the rest of your photos in post?
I'd hate to pull out a gray card & shoot it in the stadium before the game and look like an idiot because I'm the only one doing it. Plus, I'm wondering how good it would do if I'm shooting something like hockey, where I can't put the gray card out on the ice and shoot it. Best I could do is probably try and put it on the glass and shoot it just to get it under the arena lighting. |
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Margaret Bowles, Photographer
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Houston | TX | | Posted: 7:15 AM on 03.08.10 |
| ->> You won't look like an idiot; you will look like a perfectionist, which you should be for your clients. I asked a top photographer sitting next to me how he got such beautiful colors without strobes at a basketball game. He said he always uses a gray card and shoots in RAW. I set my white balance before the game starts. I can't help with the hockey question; I haven't shot enough of it to give advice. |
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George Bridges, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | USA | Posted: 11:19 AM on 03.08.10 |
->> My get-it-out-quick workflow is this:
Before the game set up generic caption with all info in PhotoMechanic in an "Edits" folder. This will have all of the IPTC data ready and the closing part of the caption such as "in their First-Round NCAA Tournament matchup on Monday, March 8, 2010, in Houston, Texas. (George Bridges/MCT)"
While shooting during breaks I review in camera and tag.
When it comes time to edit I put the card in and have PM bring up a contact sheet. I quickly hit F3 for the "show tagged only". (Not ingesting first is if time is really limited. If I have time, I'll ingest the full card first but for things like the short NFL halftimes every minute counts.)
Hit the Magnifying Glass and scroll through the images putting a color tag on the "ins." This is usually a loose edit. I drop out all the images without the color-tag marking and make my final selections from there.
Launch into Photoshop and do a quick crop and tone and I have an action to save to the edits folder and close the image.
Go into PM into the Edits folder and copy my pre-made caption over putting in the players before the caption line created before so I all I have to type is:
"Larry Bird of Indiana State defends Magic Johnson of Michigan State" and the rest is already there.
Then a transmit from PhotoMechanic.
Once those images are done I do an Ingest of the card and ingest all images to a named folder such as "ISU-MSU 3-8/First Half" and head back out with a fresh card. |
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Mat Gdowski, Photographer
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Las Vegas | NV | USA | Posted: 4:09 PM on 03.08.10 |
->> Margaret - I appreciate the info. Okay, such as in shooting basketball...where do you put your gray card when you shoot one? I was used to only really using a gray card when shooting modeling photography. So, it was easy, you have the model hold the gray card (because he/she is the focus of my light anyway) and I zoom in on it, shoot it and done deal.
However, I don't think any of the players would appreciate it if I was to ask them to stop practice before the game and hold a gray card out so I could get a shot of it at half court so I could get my white balance right. LOL
Or would you just ask any "passerby" to hold it real quick for you? Or maybe set it against a chair?
I know these sound like dumb questions, but most times I've shot motorsports, so I could almost use the gray off the pavement of the track for my WB if need be. I never really had to deal with the gray card for stadium type lighting and such. I think it makes a difference to do things in a professional way and that's why I'm trying to get the opinions of everyone here. :-) I think the info here has been invaluable to me (whether I asked the question or read it off other people's posts) and has helped me become a better photographer and I want to show it here on my images.
So, since I'm about to shoot some sports that are new to me, I want to try and do the best job I can, without looking like a complete pinhead. LOL! :-D
George - I appreciate your workflow/post info. I'm basically taking all the posts I've seen and kind of making a master list to see what works for me the best. :-) We'll see if it works.
I really appreciate everyone's input.
Thanks!
Mat |
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George Bridges, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | USA | Posted: 11:58 PM on 03.08.10 |
->> Mat,
The gray card just needs to fill the frame, so most of the time you can hold it at arm's length with shorter lens to set the WB.
Or just get there early enough and have someone hold the card. Another photographer should be happy to help or ask someone standing around to hold the card, shoot a quick frame and give them a nice "thank you" and move on.
Depending on the stadium and if the light is constant one good way to set your color balance is to shoot in RAW and then use the slider in the RAW convert to get it where it is right. Then look at the color temperature listed there and use the Kelvin setting on the camera to dial in the temp. |
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Mat Gdowski, Photographer
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Las Vegas | NV | USA | Posted: 3:21 AM on 03.09.10 |
->> George...thanks for the tip about the Kelvin setting...I never thought about doing it that way. I usually shoot in RAW, so that shouldn't be a problem. :-)
The problem is, I think I need to get some practice in color correcting. I can change the WB and color in my images and think it looks okay and someone else can look at it and go, "oh, you have a (insert any color) cast on your images" and it drives me nuts. :-(
However, I do have a monitor profiler on the way now, as I know it's extremely important to calibrate the monitors (my laptop LCD & separate LCD monitor) that I have. :-) That should help me a bunch. I never used to do it before. :-( |
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Alan Maglaque, Photographer
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South Plainfield | NJ | USA | Posted: 9:16 AM on 03.09.10 |
->> Mat,
What I found to work for me is this:
. Prep for the shoot
- WB is set
- Code replacement done
- XMP/Metadata set for the upcoming game
. Shoot the game
. Chimp during the game
. Lock those that look good
. Record the players on the image if needed
. At half, ingest only locked files (less time to ingest and look at)
. Review the images. Mark the great images with a single star
. From the preview screen, show on single star images
. Caption only great images
. Import to LR for minor editing
. Upload to wire service
Do not caption more than 2-4 images at the half. This will slow you down. The rest of the images can be uploaded at the end of the game. |
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George Bridges, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | USA | Posted: 9:43 AM on 03.09.10 |
->> Mat,
Yep, when I learned color printing (yes, actual printing. this was back in the stone ages if seems) I remember the instructor saying that you would think you had all your prints perfect and show them to someone who would come back and say 'too magenta, too yellow, too blue" as they were tossed aside.
There are some good instruction videos online and elsewhere for doing corrections by setting target points and then making level and curve adjustments.
But over time your eye will adapt --- and how do you know their monitor is not calibrated properly? :-) |
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George Bridges, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | USA | Posted: 9:45 AM on 03.09.10 |
| ->> Also remember, calibrating your laptop is good, but your surrounding lighting can change how images look. So if you calibrate in your home or office under tungsten lights and then you go to a stadium workroom which is under fluorescent or those icky-green mercury vapor lights then things can look very different even with a computer monitor and not just prints. |
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Mat Gdowski, Photographer
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Las Vegas | NV | USA | Posted: 4:44 AM on 03.10.10 |
->> George - Oh great...so I can't win? LOL Just kidding. I'll do my best to make them look good and go from there. That's all I can do. But you are correct, I don't know if their monitor is calibrated or not. hehehehe
However, now I'm having another issue that I just found out with LR. I think I need to start another thread on it though because I'm curious to see if anyone else has had this problem or not and I don't know how to work around it. :-(
Alan - Thanks for the info...sounds like a good process. :-) |
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George Bridges, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | USA | Posted: 9:21 AM on 03.10.10 |
->> Mat,
I would strongly suggest joining Lynda.com and going into the Photoshop tutorials and going over the ones on color correcting by the numbers and work that way until your eye is trained to get it right and you always know how to run the numbers if you get a difficult image. |
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Mat Gdowski, Photographer
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Las Vegas | NV | USA | Posted: 12:58 PM on 03.10.10 |
| ->> George - Thanks for the link! I just briefly looked at it and I see a section for "color correction for Photoshop CS3". :-) Looks like that's the section I need to take. |
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Derick Hingle, Photographer
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Hammond | LA | USA | Posted: 2:38 PM on 03.10.10 |
->> Here are my suggestions.
Arrive early to get a good spot in the workroom.
as mentioned bring Ethernet cable and power strip.
I complete my code replacement and IPTC data usually the night before.
If you are shooting indoors then find out the K level from someone who shoots there or take a custom wb or go shoot a few images in RAW and figure out the K level after adjusting the white balance of the raw image, then you have a K level for the venue and can shoot jpg if you wish.
I try and get everything in camera as good as possible, and do very little post work to my images, sometimes none at all besides cropping.
I often crop in photo mechanic and ftp through PM as well. I save a copy of the sent image in a folder marked sent. If you ftp using PM you can see which images have been transmitted as there is a little green box in the corner of each thumb showing it has been sent. If there is a red box the ftp failed and you can resend that image.
I tag my files during breaks in the action, some call it chimping I call it tagging lol, it speeds my workflow, I go back and ingest the un-tagged images at the half or post game for things I might have forgot to tag. Matthew forgot to mention he also looks at my images sometimes and back to his to see his aren't so great anymore ;-)
I kid Matt, I kid :-) |
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Mat Gdowski, Photographer
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Las Vegas | NV | USA | Posted: 6:03 PM on 03.10.10 |
->> Thanks Derick - very informative...
What color space does everyone save in to upload to your media clients? |
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Matthew Bush, Photographer
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Hattiesburg | MS | USA | Posted: 7:08 PM on 03.10.10 |
->> Derrick- I forgot a step in my workflow... lol add in crop out Derrick's camera because he beat me to the 50 ... I kid brother.
Lol |
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