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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
women's hoops; BRUTAL!
Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 12:50 PM on 03.05.10 |
| ->> I can tell you from personal experience that women take the game personally... check this out: http://tinyurl.com/ydwszxy |
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Nick Turchiaro, Photographer
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Brampton | Ontario | Canada | Posted: 1:32 PM on 03.05.10 |
->> I see what you mean...however, why in the first place would the girl who was punched grab the girl that punched her? That's not part of basketball is it??
I am sure that they both regret incident and if not they both shouldn't be playing basketball.
Anyway, there is no excuse for women or men to attack each other on the basketball court.
After all it's just a game!!
Nick |
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James Broome, Photographer
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Tampa | FL | US | Posted: 1:35 PM on 03.05.10 |
->> That's my take as well, Nick. Based on what disciplinary actions were taken after this event, it would have been OK for the taller girl to just grab the other one and fling her by off the court. That way, no penalty for fighting would be levied against her.
Odd. |
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Patrick Smith, Photographer
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Salt Lake City | UT | USA | Posted: 1:42 PM on 03.05.10 |
->> That's nothing. Well, compared to New Mexico's Elizabeth Lambert.
In case you missed the MMA match..ahem...women's soccer match between BYU and New Mexico last year.
Video: http://tinyurl.com/yejoelx |
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Sean D. Elliot, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Norwich | CT | USA | Posted: 2:12 PM on 03.05.10 |
->> Greiner's retaliation for a hard foul looks almost justifiable compared to the premeditated activity on that soccer pitch ... not that it is.
Greiner deserves the suspension she's going to serve and hopefully will learn from it. |
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 6:23 PM on 03.05.10 |
->> In all my officiating experience I can tell you women react more emotionally in sports than men. They take everything personally. A good defensive effort, completely legal, gets a whining "Get her off me!!" response from players. They hold grudges over an incredible length of time; a hard push underneath gets a retaliatory in-kind contact even much later in the game when the men just let it go.
In this case, the refs are really the one's at fault in this incident as they had plenty of time to get between the two girls after the first hard shove, thus preventing the retaliatory punch. They were not paying attention. I just about guarantee you there were signs between these two that they should have seen and dealt with long before it got physical. In general, women will display obvious animosity over a period of time that refs should see. Very rarely does this kind of physical display occur spontaneously. The problem builds over time between two players and finally results in what we see in this video. A good ref will pick up on the escalating animosity and warn the players, tell the coaches and get between them at even the first sign of an altercation. |
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Anantachai Brown, Photographer
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Jacksonville | FL | | Posted: 6:38 PM on 03.05.10 |
| ->> its complete BS she only gets a 2 games suspension....she should have be suspended for the rest of the season and then some. |
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Andrew Link, Photographer
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West Bend | WI | USA | Posted: 7:13 PM on 03.05.10 |
| ->> It's interesting how Oregon running back LeGarrette Blount was originally suspended for the whole season for his punch and she gets two games... |
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Jeff Martin, Photographer
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wellington | OH | usa | Posted: 8:44 PM on 03.05.10 |
->> "In this case, the refs are really the one's at fault in this incident"
Phil, I understand your point but don't buy that it's the ref's fault. The woman is responsible for her actions. |
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Matthew Sauk, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | United States | Posted: 8:47 PM on 03.05.10 |
| ->> That girl should not have tried to throw her to the ground like that, she got what she deserved. |
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Nick Morris, Photographer
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Phil Hawkins, Photographer
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Fresno | ca | usa | Posted: 11:41 PM on 03.05.10 |
| ->> Jeff, yes, you are correct, but the sports world is not a perfect place and that's why we have officials to maintain order. Officials are there to control the game and they did anything but that this time. Preventative officiating was not practiced. |
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Primoz Jeroncic, Photographer
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Kranj | SI | Slovenia | Posted: 1:04 PM on 03.06.10 |
->> I agree on one side with "player should be responsible for his/her actions" but in reality such comment can come only from someone who was never doing competitive sport on his own. And I don't mean anything bad with this.
When you are in middle of race/match, you are looking on things a bit differently, and what's most important, a lot less rationally, as you would, if you would be just spectator. If things would be so perfect, there wouldn't be any need for referees, since everyone would be playing fair and by the rules. I know this sounds unbelievable, but I have seen fights during our recreational ice hockey "trainings", where result doesn't matter and people play only for fun. So fights, on matches that do matter (even if they are HS matches) are perfectly normal for me. Not that I like or support them, but I understand them. So I actually agree with Phil, that it was, at least in big part, referees fault, since they allowed dirty play before this incident. I doubt this incident was caused just by that foul few seconds before punch. |
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Jeff Martin, Photographer
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wellington | OH | usa | Posted: 3:27 PM on 03.06.10 |
| ->> >>I agree on one side with "player should be responsible for his/her actions" but in reality such comment can come only from someone who was never doing competitive sport on his own. |
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Jeff Martin, Photographer
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wellington | OH | usa | Posted: 3:29 PM on 03.06.10 |
->> Reference the above quote.
Primoz, you are incorrect. |
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John Bowersmith, Photographer
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Lubbock | Tx | USA | Posted: 9:09 PM on 03.06.10 |
->> To Griner's credit Barncastle had been trying to get into her head from the tipoff. I remember seeing Barncastle defending Griner in the paint early in the first half and she was basically waving her hands in her face and yelling. I thought to myself, "wow, Barncastle is really harassing Griner." To Barncastle's credit, that's sports folks. If you're pretty sure you're not going to be able to physically match your opponent you try to play a head game, Barncastle won the head game.
I was discussing Barncastle's defensive technique with someone a day or so ago and they made the point, "well it didn't stop Griner from scoring 21 points." My reply was, "nope it didn't, but it stopped Griner from scoring any points for the last 9 minutes of the game."
Baylor stumbled after the foul and following melee and almost blew their lead. Tempers were pretty hot for the rest of the game and no one is talking about Tech's Kierra Mallard kicking Baylor's Ashley Field while she scrambled for a ball in the paint later in the same half. Sure it was a pretty weak kick to the back, but it was totally intentional and garnered Tech a technical foul.
Phil is right. The game was intensely physical and the officials were kept pretty busy but did miss some stuff. I really try not to second guess officials, it's a hard job but they aren't always right. I think they did a good job of getting in there after the haymaker. Everything seems to happen a lot slower on the video.
Do I think Griner needs to be done until next season? You bet. Do I think her punch was unprovoked? Not at all.
The funny thing for me, having covered these women for two seasons, was seeing them be that aggressive. In my limited contact I've found Barncastle and Roberson, the girl who rushes in after the hit, to be pretty nice. That is part of sports too. |
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Matthew Sauk, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | United States | Posted: 10:46 PM on 03.06.10 |
->> suspended the rest of the season for one punch, with no priors? Yikes, that is kinda harsh.
Shit happens, welcome to sports. Hell even I threw a punch one time during a game, it happens. |
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Anantachai Brown, Photographer
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Jacksonville | FL | | Posted: 12:32 AM on 03.07.10 |
| ->> so matt, its okay to punch someone during the game if you get pissed off? do you think what Blount did was okay also? he was provoked also. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 1:57 AM on 03.07.10 |
| ->> girls are MEANIES!!! |
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Matthew Sauk, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | United States | Posted: 8:52 AM on 03.07.10 |
->> I never said it was okay, I simply said it happens. I also said I don't believe you should be suspended for an entire season for one punch especially when you have had zero priors.
Thanks |
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Nik Habicht, Photographer
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Levittown | PA | USA | Posted: 2:42 PM on 03.07.10 |
->> Matthew,
you're right -- adult athletes should be facing criminal charges for punching someone at a bare minimum.... |
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Matthew Sauk, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | United States | Posted: 2:54 PM on 03.07.10 |
| ->> lmao wow. really? |
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Matthew Sauk, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | United States | Posted: 2:56 PM on 03.07.10 |
->> Nik,
So let me ask you, do you believe hockey players should face criminal chargers for fighting as well? |
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Mark Peters, Photographer
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Highland | IL | USA | Posted: 7:00 PM on 03.07.10 |
| ->> Hockey stick swung as a club at the head maybe - but criminal charges for a retaliatory round house after being mugged in a sporting event? What a joke. |
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Nik Habicht, Photographer
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Levittown | PA | USA | Posted: 7:24 PM on 03.07.10 |
->> Matthew,
If you're an adult and you punch someone, you've got to be smart enough to realize that could result in the death of the person being struck. Why should that not be treated as a criminal offense?
There is a big difference (at least in my mind) between playing a sport aggressively (potentially bumping/slamming into someone, elbow meeting something as a couple of players come down from a rebound or header) and deliberately striking someone....
Or is punching someone allowed under Hockey's rules? I think not....
But then, what do I know? |
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Matthew Sauk, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | United States | Posted: 8:56 PM on 03.07.10 |
->> I believe fighting happens quite often during hockey games. I guess you believe they should be jailed.
It is against the rules, but it still happens.
"But then, what do I know?"
Not to be an ass, but obviously not a lot |
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Anantachai Brown, Photographer
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Jacksonville | FL | | Posted: 9:09 PM on 03.07.10 |
->> so i take, since Ron Artest didn't have any priors for going into the stands to fight a fan it should have been okay then?
for those that don't remember, it was the Pacers vs. Pistons game in 2004-5? |
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Matthew Sauk, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | United States | Posted: 9:31 PM on 03.07.10 |
->> i still have not heard why it is okay for hockey players, but when someone on a bball court or football field does it they should be jailed or brought up on chargers.
I also classify what Artest did as something completely different. It is a different animal entirely.
He brought the fight to the fans, not player on player, that to me is a big difference. |
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Matthew Sauk, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | United States | Posted: 9:37 PM on 03.07.10 |
| ->> charges not chargers! lol damn it |
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Anantachai Brown, Photographer
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Jacksonville | FL | | Posted: 9:41 PM on 03.07.10 |
->> Professional men's hockey and womens NCAA basketball is a completely different animal also. I don't watch hockey much, but i would assume fighting in NCAA hockey is not tolerated.
IMO hockey shouldn't be allowed to fight neither, but like you say its part of the game. BUT punching another person is NOT part of the game in basketball. |
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Matthew Sauk, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | United States | Posted: 10:10 PM on 03.07.10 |
->> The question is not so much if it is apart of the game, but rather that the person feels charges should be filed....Basically that they should go to jail.
I feel otherwise. |
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Nik Habicht, Photographer
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Levittown | PA | USA | Posted: 10:37 PM on 03.07.10 |
->> Matthew,
you're entitled to your opinion. We'll get along fine, unless you decide to punch me --- then you may not like my reaction....
If I owned a team of any sort, or was managing/coaching one, there'd be dire consequences for any player who assaulted another person. Clearly I don't, so it's a moot point.
It is however how I was raised -- that unless it's in self defense or in defense of another innocent party, violence simply isn't acceptable.
As far as going to jail goes -- that would be up to a jury to decide. That's why we have trials, to determine what happened and what should happen as a consequence of the participants actions.... |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 12:31 AM on 03.08.10 |
->> matthew, you about as far off base on this argument as anyone I have ever read. how in the hell do you try and equate a hockey game where fights are routine with someone cold cocking someone during a basketball game. sorry to be blunt but you are wrong.
plain and simple, no argument....sporting events would descend into chaos under your "rules". part of the game? basketball? getting punched? again, I ask what the hell are you suggesting? |
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Matthew Sauk, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | United States | Posted: 9:27 AM on 03.08.10 |
->> That is your opinion there Chuck, I disagree.
You telling me you have never seen someone on the ice "cold cock" someone else?
Fights happen in sports, do they not? It does not mean they should serve jail time, period.
Thanks |
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Harvey Dunn, Photographer
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Southlake (Dallas) | TX | USA | Posted: 2:19 PM on 03.08.10 |
| ->> For a look at the consequences of a punch in pro-basketball check out the Rudy Tomjanovich/Kermit Washington incident. (The incident is the subject of a book by John Feinstein : One Night, Two Lives, and the Fight That Changed Basketball Forever.) From Wiki: "Washington, then playing with the Los Angeles Lakers, was fined $10,000, and suspended for 60 days, missing 26 games—at the time, the longest suspension for an on-court incident in NBA history.Tomjanovich, then of the Houston Rockets, missed the rest of the season. He later won a legal judgment against the Lakers and was awarded $3.2 million, even though the original sum sought was only $2.4 million." |
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Nik Habicht, Photographer
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Levittown | PA | USA | Posted: 11:07 PM on 03.08.10 |
->> Matthew,
is there a "sports exemption" written into the assault and aggravated assault statutes in Utah? Should "fights are part of hockey" be an acceptable defense to a charge of manslaughter? Is fighting permitted by hockey rules?
If the answer to all of these questions is no, then I think there's a problem... |
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
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Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 6:10 AM on 03.09.10 |
->> Matthew - just make sure you sucker-punch the right Chuck.
Todd Bertuzzi, anyone? |
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John Bowersmith, Photographer
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Lubbock | Tx | USA | Posted: 8:16 PM on 03.19.10 |
| ->> To clarify Matthew, I meant Griner should have been suspended for the entire post-season since there was only one regular-season game left. Wait until April, then tell me how many games that is. |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 9:45 PM on 03.19.10 |
->> Nik,
There kind-of is. If there wasn't boxing would not be legal. The participants give an implied consent for other participants to physically manhandle them. Fights are generally considered to be part of the game.
There is an unwritten limit within hockey that, if crossed, might leave the participants open to legal action.
Does anybody here know if an NHL player has ever been prosecuted for actions on the ice? I seem to remember something along those lines in the past 10 years or so.
--Mark |
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Mark Peters, Photographer
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Jack Arent, Photographer, Assistant
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Alameda | CA | | Posted: 3:38 AM on 03.20.10 |
| ->> Marty McSorley. He was charged with assault for hitting a guy in the head with his stick, and ultimately never played hockey again. |
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