| Sign in: |
| Members log in here with your user name and password to access the your admin page and other special features. |
|
|
|
|
|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
The Importance of Safety Cables.
David Welker, Photographer, Student/Intern
 |
Springfield | MO | USA | Posted: 1:23 AM on 02.17.10 |
->> Most of us have had a time where we want to press our skills to the limits and we then look for new ways to gather angles and different frames. As this year's Sportsshooter Academy approaches, I had given some thought to what I wanted to improve on and what I would need to look into. My first thought was "remotes". I had never set up remotes and it was something that I had always wanted to do. Well I gathered everything I would need and last week was my first week setting up and having a functional backboard remote for high school basketball. It was a blast, however, because of the game starting early I did not get a chance to put up my safety cables. I figured I would be fine, and I was. However, I can not stress enough the need for the safety cables.
Tonight's game was the last game of the season. I wanted to try one more set up before the season ended and tonight was my only chance. so I set up and this time I made sure I had my safety cables. I am glad I did.
After the game, I took down my lights only to hear a loud "POP" and the gym went quiet. One of the custodians had started to put up the backboard, when one of my super clamps broke and shattered. The camera and lens dropped but then was caught by the safety cables. If I had decided that I didnt have time to put them up again, my 40d and 16-35 II would have been on the ground or on someones head.
Guys and gals, the safety cables are not only for the protection of the camera but for the protection of the fans, players, and other media personnel. Please when putting up remotes or anything attached higher than a foot, please put up safety cables. Next time, you may not be as lucky. |
|
Robert Benson, Photographer
|
San Diego | Ca | USA | Posted: 2:19 AM on 02.17.10 |
| ->> I feel like I've just been scolded. |
|
Mike Janes, Photographer
|
Attica | NY | USA | Posted: 3:06 AM on 02.17.10 |
| ->> David - did you forget the most important person when it comes to basketball games? There is very good reason I made sure teams I coached treated the custodian great and we gave him gifts (signed cards, t-shirts, etc.) in thanks! ALWAYS tell the custodian about your set up and you won't be out a super clamp or worse. Also would put up a reminder note at the switch for the baskets to not put them up until the camera is removed from the backboard. |
|
David Welker, Photographer, Student/Intern
|
Springfield | MO | USA | Posted: 8:52 AM on 02.17.10 |
->> Mike,
He knew it was up there, just skipped his mind since it was only the last two games I had set it up. In fact, last week he had come over to say "Hey can we put the backboard up yet? Is your camera down?"
This week he just forgot it was up there.
Thanks for the note idea. I like that. |
|
Chuck Liddy, Photographer
|
Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 9:41 AM on 02.17.10 |
| ->> I actually found it shocking that you would even consider putting a camera up with no safety cables....regardless of the time factor. Besides the fact that you were mounting equipment that costs several thousand dollars....do you understand the ramifications if your set-up fell during a game and injured a spectator or athlete? I'm trying to understand why in the world would you say "I would be fine" (without safety cables) if you had never done it before? |
|
Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
 |
| | | Posted: 9:49 AM on 02.17.10 |
->> I prefer to dangle interns upside down by their feet and make them hold the camera in place.
A little gaffers tape around the interns ankles for a little extra safety and you're good to go ... |
|
Joel Hawksley, Student/Intern, Photographer
|
Kent | OH | USA | Posted: 9:53 AM on 02.17.10 |
->> I'm with Chuck, how is an unsecured rig EVER okay? Safety cables should be part of your setup process, not an afterthought. I secure my camera before I even aim it, and that's pretty standard around here. As far as catwalk remotes, we DOUBLE safety everything before it is allowed to even go over the edge.
Safety should always be #1 in your mind. Getting "the shot" doesn't matter one bit if someone gets hurt. And while we're on the topic, are you insured? |
|
David Welker, Photographer, Student/Intern
|
Springfield | MO | USA | Posted: 9:55 AM on 02.17.10 |
->> Chuck,
I had the camera all good to go, had to put up the safety cables, that was all that was left. Visiting team coach said that they needed me to move so they could start warming up. I explained that I needed to put up my safety cables, didnt care. My time was done, the game started early. I am not condoning my actions however I did what I had to do. I ended up wrapping the strap several times around the backboard supports so that if something did happen, Id be covered to a certain extent.
Steven,
I like that idea. Ill keep that in mind for next time. |
|
David Welker, Photographer, Student/Intern
|
Springfield | MO | USA | Posted: 9:56 AM on 02.17.10 |
->> Joel,
yes I am insured. I wouldn't set it up without it. |
|
Saul Loeb, Photographer
|
Washington | DC | USA | Posted: 10:04 AM on 02.17.10 |
->> David,
He isn't talking about insurance for the camera - he is talking about insurance for injured players/spectators caused by falling, unsecured cameras. |
|
David Welker, Photographer, Student/Intern
|
Springfield | MO | USA | Posted: 10:10 AM on 02.17.10 |
->> Saul,
I understand what he is talking about. I have Liability insurance for those type of situations. I would not have put the camera up if I did not have liability insurance. |
|
Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
|
Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 11:18 AM on 02.17.10 |
->> "I am not condoning my actions however I did what I had to do."
David, that flies in the face of everything you are trying to say. "What you had to do" in that situation was take your rig down or put up safety cables, period. The fact that the 'game started early' shouldn't be an excuse either - safety cables aren't the only consideration when it comes to safety. Sufficient preparation time in planning your rig is just as necessary.
For my first backboard remote, I met individually with our head coach AND our facilities guy the week before the game to explain what I intended to do, and set the rig up the night before the game. While I realize that 'night before' setup is neither necessary, practical, or safe (from a physical security standpoint) in most cases, the point is: do all your homework before any sort of remote rig like this. |
|
Gary Mills, Photographer
|
Culver | IN | USA | Posted: 12:08 PM on 02.17.10 |
| ->> Who makes best and most reliable safety cables and where do you buy them? Thanks |
|
Patrick Meredith, Photographer, Assistant
|
Joel Hawksley, Student/Intern, Photographer
|
Athens | OH | USA | Posted: 12:27 PM on 02.17.10 |
->> I use standard Altman steel safety cables with a 36" cord. The end can be snuck through a super clamp and a standard magic arm camera plate. They use a carabiner locking system. These are the safeties normally used by lighting companies to secure stage lights during productions.
I've also seen people use climbing rope, which has a higher shock tolerance than steel cable, but this isn't of much importance due to the relatively light weight of most remote rigs.
Here's what I'm talking about:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/195824-REG/Altman_SC_36_BK_Steel_Safe...
As far as actually securing things, I've made it a habit to always place my safety ABOVE whatever I am attaching. That way if the clamps fail (normally from over-tightening), whatever I am rigging won't fall any lower than it has to.
Here's a recent backboard mount that I did. Note the safety cable mounted to the top corner of the backboard.
http://extimg.hawksleyphoto.com/upload/2010-01-31-1150_JH.JPG |
|
David Welker, Photographer, Student/Intern
|
Springfield | MO | USA | Posted: 1:22 PM on 02.17.10 |
->> Gary,
I made my own by going to Home depot and getting some 1/16th Gauge steel cable. I then got some ferrules and stops to make the loops. After Crimping the wire into the ferrule, I soldered the wires in just to make sure of extra security. I used a locking caribeener (not the climbing kind) to secure everything. Here is what the set up looked like:
http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae38/turfimages/Random%20Sport/Remote%20...
I had the cable run up through the magic arm base, then up through the camera strap support holes. I had two small clip locks that hooked into the camera strap support holes and the wire went through that about 4 times. It then went over the bar a few times and then was secured back behind the camera with the locking caribeener.
Hope that helps. |
|
Daniel Berman, Student/Intern, Photographer
|
Seattle | WA | US | Posted: 1:33 PM on 02.17.10 |
| ->> Your safety cables should be the first thing installed to your remote setup before it is ever placed into position. Not last, first. |
|
Mike Janes, Photographer
|
Attica | NY | USA | Posted: 2:01 PM on 02.17.10 |
->> David, if that homemade safety cable fails who's liable and does your insurance cover homemade equipment?
I already know the answer for most cases and it's why I never use anything homemade like that. Something like a platform for low remotes would have no problem using a homemade one, but they're not dangling above people. |
|
David Welker, Photographer, Student/Intern
|
Springfield | MO | USA | Posted: 2:42 PM on 02.17.10 |
->> Mike,
You make a very good point. I will say that I had thought about that but I had not asked about if it would cover the homemade cable. Ill look into that and get back to you. In reality, it was a short term solution that I needed to have. |
|
Chuck Liddy, Photographer
|
Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 4:13 PM on 02.17.10 |
| ->> I hope the two "huh's" out there from my previous comment never hang remotes...if there was something you poor souls didn't understand about the point I was making please feel free to email me....I'll make an attempt to enlighten you. |
|
Justin Edmonds, Student/Intern, Photographer
|
Denver | CO | USA | Posted: 4:14 PM on 02.17.10 |
->> David,
I don't mean to play the bad guy here but it seems like you have a response/excuse to everyone's suggestions when, looking back, you clearly didn't do things correctly and admitted doing so.
If I was in your situation I would listen to the folks who have offered up essential advice and take it with a grain of salt. There are no "short term solutions" when it comes to remotes. Period. |
|
David Welker, Photographer, Student/Intern
|
Springfield | MO | USA | Posted: 4:19 PM on 02.17.10 |
->> Justin,
Dont worry you are not being the "Bad Guy" here.
By no means am I doing that, at least not intentionally. I admit, the first time I did it, I didnt do it the right way. But with this story, I really realized how I messed up the first time, and I dont want anyone to make the same mistake I did.
I have listened to the people in this thread and I appreciate the words that have been said. It is a learning experience. |
|
Andrew Knapik, Photographer, Assistant
|
Lincoln Park | MI | USA | Posted: 4:47 PM on 02.17.10 |
->> I wonder if someone could put a short youtube video as to how to mount a camera using clamps, magic arms, and safety cables. I have always wanted to try a remote setup for hockey or basketball, but I never know how to attach both the lens and body to the safety cables.
I understand how to get the body safety cabled, but what about the lens? Where would you attach a safety cable.
FWIW - I have searched youtube for this and found nothing. If you have any links, I would love to see them. |
|
David Welker, Photographer, Student/Intern
|
Springfield | MO | USA | Posted: 4:52 PM on 02.17.10 |
->> Andrew,
This has been my experience with seeing other remote set ups and I based mine off of those but I have never seen anyone secure the lens itself.
Typically, (again based on what I have seen) is that you run the cable through the base of the magic arms and through something connected to the camera that secures the camera. Wrap it around something solid like a pole or something along those lines and then secure the wire totally. |
|
Chuck Liddy, Photographer
|
Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 5:13 PM on 02.17.10 |
| ->> David, if you are putting up a remote in an overhead shooting position with a long lens you need to secure the lens also. It doesn't do much good if the camera and magic arm are secured and the 300mm, 400mm or 600mm lens drops on someone's head. The lens strap connectors are what I attach the third cable to. |
|
Joel Hawksley, Student/Intern, Photographer
|
Athens | OH | USA | Posted: 5:25 PM on 02.17.10 |
->> Andrew-
Fellow Sportshooter member Kyle Grantham and I are working on a short YouTube "crash course" on mounting remotes and installing arena lights. I'll let you know when we get it online. |
|
David Welker, Photographer, Student/Intern
|
Springfield | MO | USA | Posted: 5:32 PM on 02.17.10 |
->> Chuck,
I was just referring to a backboard remote but you are correct. |
|
Svein Ove Ekornesvaag, Photographer
|
Aalesund | Møre og Romsdal | Norway | Posted: 5:36 PM on 02.17.10 |
| ->> I guess it also hurts too get a 16-35mm in the head with a couple of meter drop, doesn't anyone secure wide angle lenses somehow? |
|
David Welker, Photographer, Student/Intern
|
Melissa Wade, Photographer
|
Boston | MA | USA | Posted: 6:44 PM on 02.17.10 |
->> For lenses you can put this plumber metal ring thing (sorry I don't know the name of it, but can be found in plumbing supplies at a hardware store), but it can be tightened down around the lens after you've slipped the cable through.
You can also use zip-ties to create a loop - one tight around the lens after slipping another one through and then make a loop with the second one. Just when using zip-ties, always test a couple out of the bag before using. I've bought some in the past that could not be trusted.
Personally I wish there were strap loops on the 70-200. |
|
David Welker, Photographer, Student/Intern
|
Chuck Liddy, Photographer
|
Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 6:49 PM on 02.17.10 |
| ->> melissa, if I'm using the 70-200 I put the tripod sleeve back on the lens and use a second magic arm cabling them together....but thanks a lot for the idea of using a "thingamajingy" (aka a hose clamp) on the short lens. a brilliant idea! |
|
Melissa Wade, Photographer
|
Boston | MA | USA | Posted: 10:52 PM on 02.17.10 |
->> David - yes, though I'm not sure about that use since the item being held could slip through as opposed to it being used in conjunction with something else that makes a closed loop. I'd want that metal bracket safety cabled (looks like it has a hole in it that would work) and whatever is attached to it needs to be cabled as well.
Just remember safety cables need to go back to something safe not just to other safety cables :-).
I was lucky; the first (and second) time I used a (non-netcam) remote, Jacques Boissinot went up with me and gave me lessons and he is both a kind and patient teacher and a super stickler for remote safety.
Now if I could just get an eye for those remotes. I should try using them more often, but I get lazy because I rarely really like/want to use what I get with one over what I get from the camera in my hands.
Chuck - can't take credit for it; came across the idea on here a few years ago. |
|
Bryan Hulse, Photographer
|
Nashville | Tn | USA | Posted: 9:41 AM on 02.18.10 |
->> We also put plexiglass over the reflectors in case the flash tube shatters. Just plexiglass from Home Depot, cut to the size of the end of the reflector, then use zip ties to mount.
Cut for a tight fit, then if and when the flash tube breaks, it catches the broken glass instead of sending it spewing all over the bleachers/court. |
|
Jason Heffran, Photographer
|
Natrona Heights | PA | USA | Posted: 7:40 PM on 02.18.10 |
->> I appreciate David starting this thread. Although I am insured, etc. I realize even moreso about the safety cable issue.
What strikes me most is how strong everyone's opinion is on the certainty of their use. I think that is a testament to the professionalism of the people on this board.
I am reading this thinking, "Wow, I am glad to be a member. It's apparent that these guys are very meticulous in how they go about things." Really makes me feel good about the peers I am surrounding myself with here at SportsShooter.
I have to admit, I would probably not have thought about securing it so it didn't fall AT ALL any lower than originally mounted. And, securing the lens may seem obvious, but I can say I may have overlooked that had someone not brought that up. I tend to get caught up in the "shot".
So, I really appreciate the seasoned "pros" offering up points that may be obvious to them. It gets us younger guys thinking about every little aspect of the craft.
Thanks. |
|
Return to --> Message Board Main Index
|