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Death in Vancouver
Codie McLachlan, Photographer
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Edmonton | AB | Canada | Posted: 3:38 PM on 02.12.10 |
->> My heart goes out to the family and friends of Nodar Muaritashvili, the Georgian luge athlete who was reportedly killed during his training run in Vancouver today. I saw the crash on CTV and was truly horrified. I can't imagine how awful that would have been for everyone who witnessed the crash firsthand.
Article: http://www.ctvolympics.ca/skeleton/news/newsid=39315.html?cid=rsstgam |
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Gregory McKie, Photographer
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Seattle, WA and Portland | OR | US | Posted: 4:07 PM on 02.12.10 |
| ->> Who in the world designed that run with steel pillars next to the track w/ speeds in excess of 80mph / 129kh? |
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Brandon McKenney, Photographer
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Portland | ME | United States | Posted: 4:10 PM on 02.12.10 |
->> Exactly Gregory. At the very least there should've been some sort of netting/fencing. At 90+ MPH coming into the air off his sled he'd still be in a bad way but having something between the track and those pillars might've save his life.
Horrible tragedy that might have been prevented.
This is just another in a line of signs that seem to be dooming these games. Injuries galore, horrible winter weather, and now a death all before the opening ceremony. All very eerie. |
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Stew Milne, Photographer
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Providence | RI | USA | Posted: 4:14 PM on 02.12.10 |
| ->> Just tragic. My thoughts exactly with the design of the course. This could have been prevented. |
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Matthew Sauk, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | United States | Posted: 4:17 PM on 02.12.10 |
| ->> I don't understand why clear plexiglass is not lining that area next to steel poles? wtf |
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Joe Morahan, Photographer
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Denver | Co | USA | Posted: 4:19 PM on 02.12.10 |
| ->> what about netting like they have for skiing? The nets would have prevented this |
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Jack Megaw, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Bryan Hulse, Photographer
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Nashville | Tn | USA | Posted: 5:07 PM on 02.12.10 |
->> No kidding about the pillars!
Wouldn't any reasonable person designing that course realize that accidents WILL happen. And I would think in the turn and coming out of a turn would be the most dangerous place!
That is just terrible ! ! !
:( |
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Gregory McKie, Photographer
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Seattle, WA and Portland | OR | US | Posted: 5:23 PM on 02.12.10 |
->> Check out the story that ran in the Vancouver Sun just this morning about the track.
http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/2010wintergames/Olympic+luger+dies+after+high+speed+Whistler+track+crash/2556583/Whistler+Olympic+elevator+shaft+sliding+track+brings+meaning+taking+half+chances/2556961/story.html |
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Robert Longhitano, Photographer
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Philadelphia | PA | USA | Posted: 5:30 PM on 02.12.10 |
->> Gregory,
That link gave me the chills knowing what happen there a few hours ago. Should be interesting to see how this unfolds |
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Svein Ove Ekornesvaag, Photographer
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Aalesund | Møre og Romsdal | Norway | Posted: 5:35 PM on 02.12.10 |
| ->> It's horrifying that anyone can design the track with pillars so close to the track, and even worse that there is no security net/padding or something. |
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Brooks Canaday, Student/Intern, Photographer
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London | UK | UK | Posted: 5:54 PM on 02.12.10 |
->> I read the news on the NYT- several of the comments ask for the lead image (the first on the Getty link) to be taken down. I would not have realized how stupidly dangerous the course was without the photographs. It's sad that it took this tragedy for people to listen to calls for course changes or cancellation of the event.
I send my thoughts to Nodar Kumaritashvili's family and friends. |
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Baron Sekiya, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Hilo | HI | USA | Posted: 6:48 PM on 02.12.10 |
->> Photos and video of the run [WARNING: GRAPHIC CONTENT]
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/12/nodar-kumaritashvili-cras_n_460474...
It almost seems like they should just make the sections with those turn encased in a tube should someone lose control. But I'm sure they won't since you wouldn't be able to see the athlete for spectators, still and video.
Olympic teams should force them to make some safety changes immediately. Like Matthew said, plexiglass on the sides would have helped. |
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Scott Serio, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Colora | MD | USA | Posted: 7:01 PM on 02.12.10 |
->> If they keep taking it down, here is another link...
http://www.buzzfeed.com/akdobbins/nodar-kumaritashvili-luge-crash
First, my condolences to friends, family and teammates of Nodar Muaritashvili. Horrible way to open the games.
Secondly, I am not a real fan of death and serious injury photos or video, but in this case, I think it is very appropriate. That course design? Really? If they do it properly, he breaks some bones, maybe even he is injured seriously, but who in their right mind designs in those pillars? Stupid.
Honestly, I would respect the entire luge/bobsled community if they just decided no even to step onto that course until there is a safe fix. |
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Alex Witkowicz, Photographer
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Denver | Co | USA | Posted: 8:50 PM on 02.12.10 |
| ->> How unbelievably tasteless of NBC to open their Olympic ceremony coverage with slow-motion video of this man's death. |
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David Minton, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Denton | TX | USA | Posted: 10:30 PM on 02.12.10 |
->> It seems like nearly every news outlet has the very graphic photo of Muaritashvili being worked on by EMTS after the crash, covered in blood as their main image, as well as video of him close-up being worked on by EMTs. And it makes me think:
Do you think that these photos and video would be running in the same way if it had been an American? |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 10:33 PM on 02.12.10 |
->> David,
No, they'd be running even more.
--Mark |
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Tim Darby, Photographer
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Lakeland | FL | USA | Posted: 11:55 PM on 02.12.10 |
->> Couldn't agree with Alex any more. Not the right way to open the coverage of this Olympiad. It is certainly newsworthy but there are better ways to convey the tragedy that has happened on the eve of these games.
Also agree with the thoughts about possible safety measures to keep the athlete on the course. I am no "luger" or physicist but I wonder what the consequences would have been if there was a net or plexi forcing him back onto the track at that speed. Either way not pretty but I would take an uneducated guess that with more safety and better design he would have at least had a chance. Unfortunately that was not the case earlier today. A true tragedy. |
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Thomas E. Witte, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Cincinnati | OH | USA | Posted: 2:41 AM on 02.13.10 |
->> Nets and pads wouldn't do anything at those speeds with that kind of proximity. With padding you're still going to snap your spine in two hitting back first or accordion your neck hitting head first. Net's like they have in skiing are stretchy and give several yards of cushion. From the looks of it the pillars are roughly 3 feet off the track so nets are useless.
Plexi would work but you can't fault the design for not having it there already... I can think of one olympic level track that has any such safe guard and ironically I can't remember which track it is. That's because it's exceptionally rare for anyone to get four feet of air during an accident in the first place. I've watched the video dozens of times trying to see how he got air in the first place, and if I'm not mistaken, this track is rare by having sidewalls that don't meet at 90 degree angles. Or at the very least, has a more pronounced ramp.
Other tracks are designed similarly and poles have never been an issue. It's not something obvious like nets behind around a hockey rink or not having the (American) football goal posts in the field of play, circa 1950's. |
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Erik Markov, Photographer
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Kokomo | IN | | Posted: 7:23 AM on 02.13.10 |
| ->> NBC said this morning on the news officials believe it wasn't a result of the track that caused the death, but because the luger was inexperienced. How do they blame the guy who died? Insensitive. I'm sure that was the official finding in the report written up, but what does it say about who ever is supposed to be concerned about such things like athletes abilities. And of course there will be changes to that portion of the track I'm sure, even if it's just for show. The whole thing is just wrong all around. |
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Dianna Russell, Photographer
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Springfield | MO | USA | Posted: 7:44 AM on 02.13.10 |
| ->> My heart goes out to the family, friends and teammates. Two others were hurt in accidents at this venue earlier in the day. It is hard to imagine having to compete in this event following this tragedy. So horribly sad. |
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Derek Montgomery, Photographer
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Duluth | MN | USA | Posted: 8:36 AM on 02.13.10 |
| ->> I find the label of an Olympic luger "inexperienced" a bit of a stretch. From listening to the other teams, particularly the American contingent, the inexperienced label is partly to blame on the Canadians who apparently limited access to the course thus giving other teams less of an opportunity to practice and get accustomed to the track and its high speeds. |
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Dianna Russell, Photographer
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Springfield | MO | USA | Posted: 9:05 AM on 02.13.10 |
| ->> The track is being modified (raising the walls) and will reopen Saturday morning for practice and competition Saturday night 8 p.m. ET. |
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Dianna Russell, Photographer
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Stew Milne, Photographer
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Providence | RI | USA | Posted: 9:10 AM on 02.13.10 |
->> I just went to google for a search and they have a luger as the background for the logo. I'm sure this was pre-planned and is a coincidence.
Thomas: I too wondered how he could get launched out of the track like that. I think that the impact of his body on the sidewall at nearly 90 mph bounced him out. Everything is hard on the track, but his body acted like a rubber ball.
Sure, he may have been "inexperienced" in terms of how long he's been competing compared to other lugers, but he shouldn't be blamed for his own death. |
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Scott Serio, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Colora | MD | USA | Posted: 9:54 AM on 02.13.10 |
->> The way people drop in politico-speak is amazing...
"It appears after a routine run, the athlete came late out of curve 15 and did not compensate properly to make correct entrance into curve 16," they said. "This resulted in a late entrance into curve 16 and although the athlete worked to correct the problem he eventually lost control of the sled resulting in the tragic accident. The technical officials of the FIL were able to retrace the path of the athlete and concluded there was no indication that the accident was caused by deficiencies in the track."
The track will reopen after officials raise the walls at the exit of curve 16 and change the "ice profile," they said.
"This was done as a preventative measure, in order to avoid that such an extremely exceptional accident could occur again," the statement said.
NOTE: There are no deficiencies in the track. That is very carefully worded, but the truth is, exposed steel just feet from a course isn't exactly the best design. And, yes, those steel girders are not on the course.
Based by the insensitivity of all involved, you might see steel girders on the course. I mean, why not, apparently having a completely downhill course, unlike most others, and having humans hurtle themselves down an ice track on a mountain at 100mph isn't quite enough.
Here I was thinking I was OK, but not enthusiastic about the photos. And NBC, they go for the super-slo-mo with the spotlight and go straight to the bloody first aid video.
Have we fallen that far? |
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Blaine McCartney, Photographer
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Columbus | NE | USA | Posted: 10:13 AM on 02.13.10 |
| ->> Inexperienced? I doubt any athlete competing in any Olympic event is inexperienced in their respected event. |
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Geoff Miller, Photographer
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Portage | MI | USA | Posted: 10:57 AM on 02.13.10 |
->> "Other tracks are designed similarly and poles have never been an issue. It's not something obvious like nets behind around a hockey rink or not having the (American) football goal posts in the field of play, circa 1950's."
Tom, while I agree that the track wasn't responsible in the legal or criminal sense, I'm not quite prepared to let the track's designers off that easily. If you've been around racing enough, you know that all too often it's the non-routine accidents that'll jump up and bite you in a lethal way. Your safety design can't just include the usual places where accidents are likely to occur.
When I looked at the Getty photos, all I could think of was another easily preventable Canadian sports tragedy... the death of driver Jeff Krosnoff and course worker Gary Avrin at the 1996 Molson Indy Toronto race. The accident took place in a short "benign" straight section of the city street course. Krosnoff's front wheel made contact with the tire of a car in front of him and launched his car up and over the jersey barriers lining the track. Once over the barrier his cockpit struck a tree that was just a few feet beyond the concrete track wall. There was a catch fence, but it was mounted right in front of the tree. Krosnoff's car was split in two and he was killed instantly. He also struck a course worker, Gary Avrin, who was part of a flagging station posted in front of the tree.
No one thought much before the accident about rigid objects like trees being allowed to remain just a few feet off of the track at such races. Cars rarely left the safety of the "concrete canyons", so no one paid the tree, or similar obejcts, that killed Krosnoff and Avrin much care... but that all changed after the 1996 Toronto race.
While I take your word that such posts aren't uncommon at other bobsled/luge tracks around the world, just seeing those in the Getty photos dropped my jaw as a racing photographer. Seeing those on the outside exit of a technically difficult turn is mind blowing. While it's rare that a sleder gets ejected from a track, I know it happens. Like Beijing's high-tech pool that was designed to "Wow'em" back home, it's clear from the pre-accident articles that this ice track was designed as "one to remember" with its speeds said to be "easily" faster than all the rest. Given that the laws of Physics dictate that the consequences of pilot error would only be magnified over other tracks, the margin of error for safety and the consideration of "rare events" should have been increased. I have a hard time understanding how having a small forest of bare steel poles a couple feet off the track on the outside of that turn would have passed muster... and as with the aftermath of Krosnoff's and Avrin's deaths, I think it's safe to say that it's the LAST time you'll see it at a global competition.
I also agree that netting or padding around the poles wouldn't have made a bit of difference. The only "good" solution would have been to put a "soft wall" there to deflect the athlete back onto the track. |
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Svein Ove Ekornesvaag, Photographer
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Scott Serio, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Colora | MD | USA | Posted: 4:53 PM on 02.13.10 |
->> Of course they made the course safer. The course, and the design, had NOTHING to do with the tragedy. Nothing at all. It was driver error, right? Amazing how politics and CYA-syndrome is consistent practically worldwide.
Well at least instead of doing nothing, they chose to say one thing to protect themselves and do another that was actually what they were supposed to do in the first place. |
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Erik Markov, Photographer
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Kokomo | IN | | Posted: 10:13 PM on 02.13.10 |
| ->> question..... I'm watching luge right now, and several things came to mind. One, when was the track built and how much time were luges sent down? Finished 2 months ago and there's only 100 hours of time to see how the track is or 2000 hours. I don't know if that'd make a difference in preventing the death or not, but he died there- are there other danger spots yet to be found? Two does NBC play this live or is it tape delayed? Just want to know if I should be ready to be shocked by a luge incident, or a skiing accident etc? I'm not queasy but I don't think I want to see someone die in 1080i HD. And they did shorten the start by 200 yards I think they said, see how it affects it. |
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Scott Serio, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Colora | MD | USA | Posted: 12:07 AM on 02.14.10 |
->> The IOC is like some tragic, bizarro comedy skit. Can you see it?
Press Member: "Sir, do you think the course design had anything to do with this death?"
IOC Answer: "Absolutely not. We have done a thorough review of the incident and we have found that the inexperienced competitor contributed to his own death and the structure of the course had nothing to do with the death...Oh, by the way, we are completely redesigning the course, making it shorter and putting up a wall to cover the metal barriers that killed the athlete. But, I repeat, THE COURSE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DEATH it was the competitors fault."
If it weren't true and it were a SNL skit about something other than a death, it would be funny. In this instance, it is just sickening. |
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Danny Gawlowski, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Seattle | WA | USA | Posted: 4:31 AM on 02.14.10 |
| ->> At least one U.S. luger is disappointed with the new changes (starting from farther down the track), not wanting to have to go slower. http://bit.ly/cVzBUp |
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John Korduner, Photographer
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Baton Rouge | LA | United States | Posted: 6:23 AM on 02.14.10 |
->> "Do you think that these photos and video would be running in the same way if it had been an American?"
I doubt nationality plays any role. Where the pictures are shown does, and the U.S. has a far weaker stomach than the rest of the world when it comes to the macabre. I remember when I was deployed to Kuwait a few US contractors were ambushed by a group posing as Kuwaiti police. Every Middle Eastern newspaper cover featured graphic photos of the aftermath. I don't think it was because Americans were the victims... figuring you could go to a public execution in Saudi, and they'd happily sell you "I saw a double-header" t-shirts to spectators.
As for the luge track; I'm no scientist and won't question the design until an engineer questions the construction. My personal experiences engaging in stupid and reckless activities indicates that if you lose control traveling 70+ mph, you might as well pray you're aimed directly at a giant sorority pillow fight and a tri delt helps cushion the impact.
...I can remember a golfing outing during my bachelor party. Since none of us liked golf we naturally began racing the carts through local subdivisions after the 5th hole. Unfortunately, the cart I occupied rolled and I tore my ACL. What always found intrigued me were the people the asked "were you wearing a seat belt?" In hindsight I probably should've sued the course and cart manufacturer because a full body airbag wasn't a standard feature. |
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
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Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 7:56 AM on 02.14.10 |
->> Amazing how many armchair physicists are members here.
How is it that we can blame "pilot error" for a plane crash, but find a luge accident in which human error was the main contributing factor so incomprehensible?
The athletes themselves would be the best judges...and while I have seen comments about the speed and relative lack of access to the course, I haven't heard any saying the design is unsafe or flawed. Nor, aside from the fellow Georgian who withdrew, mass withdrawals from competition.
Oh, and Blaine - though I don't think it is at all comparable to this case, three words: Eddie the Eagle. |
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Scott Serio, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Colora | MD | USA | Posted: 9:08 AM on 02.14.10 |
->> Guns don't kill people, people kill people!
Same argument.
Of course the design isn't flawed, let's keep saying that.
What is flawed? Putting exposed steel so close the course. Obviously it is an issue, whether they want to admit it or not, because they built a friggin wall to cover it.
Actions versus words people. |
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Geoff Miller, Photographer
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Portage | MI | USA | Posted: 9:46 AM on 02.14.10 |
->> Chuck, the problem is that there are two seperate questions, but the IOC is trying the stick to one while ignoring (in words anyway) the other. The questions are:
1) What triggered the accident?
2) That were the significant factors that led to the accident's outcome?
The I have no doubt that the IOC is 100 percent correct that "pilot error" is what caused the accident, but that totally whistles past question 2. I suppose that if the guy totally botched the turn it could have affected the forces acting on him at the exit of the turn, but even then the factors don't stop there.
In the Krosnoff example I cited, the accident was clearly caused by driver error... Krosnoff drove into the back of Stefan Johannson. But the lack of attention to trees a few feet from the track was a more important factor in the outcome of the accident. Dale Earnhardt's death was triggered by driver error, but the lack of a mandate to wear a HANS device was a factor too. The cause of the fan deaths at MIS and Charlotte during Indycar races was due to driver error, but the lack of tire tethers later mandated was a bigger factor to the results.
I'm also disturbed by the "he was inexprienced" meme being used to deflect cause. If being ranked 44th in the World in a sport makes you a "dead man walking", then there's some thing really wrong with the sport. Chuck, I doubt "Eddie" was ranked as such and if you recall sporting authorities rushed to inact "Eddie" rules to require minimum performance standards for Olympic eligibility after that embarassment.
And if you looked at the link to the Vancouver paper posted above, you'll see some people were clearly concerned about the track's safety. |
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
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Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 12:26 PM on 02.14.10 |
->> Scott - I'm saying neither. It's just that, with little to no knowledge of either the sport or the design principles involved, I'm not ready to say with certainty that it is or it isn't. That's what I take issue with.
From what I know of you, I take your opinion on matters of interaction with law enforcement quite seriously. I'm not as convinced of your qualifications to make such decided pronouncements regarding luge track safety.
Given the "perception is reality" PR world we live in, making design changes to the track could merely be a PR move. I wouldn't say that it necessarily "proves" anything.
Geoff - Please note that I specifically said that "Eddie the Eagle" was not comparable to this case. I was only pointing out to Blaine that 'inexperienced' athletes can, and do, get into the games. But the real point is that even the most experienced athletes in the world can make mistakes - even fatal ones.
What annoys me about this whlole thread is that self-anointed 'experts' can proclaim with 100% certainty that such-and-such is responsible. It's what, barely 24 hours after the accident and people thousands of miles away from the scene know exactly what happened and why. Mind boggling to say the least.
Bottom line, there are people with far more expertise AND knowledge of the facts that are leaning both ways on this incident. There's almost certainly a bit of both elements involved. |
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Geoff Miller, Photographer
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Portage | MI | USA | Posted: 2:05 PM on 02.14.10 |
| ->> Chuck, sorry if I misinterpreted your "Eddie" comment... But I don't think that your criticism of commenters here is warranted. You don't have to have a degree in engineering or be a luger to understand the safety flaw in the Vancouver track that was a proximal cause of the athlete's death. You can also write off the track changes as a pure PR stunt, but I think it's clear if this "stunt" had been done a week ago, there'd be at least one more luger at the Olympics. I also think it's safe to say that this "stunt" will be continued at future Olympics courses built. I think a lot of what people were reacting to was the IOC's desire to deflect all blame to the one guy that can't defend himself. |
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Nik Habicht, Photographer
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Levittown | PA | USA | Posted: 6:43 PM on 02.14.10 |
->> It reminds of nets going up behind goals in Ice Hockey a few years ago....
There was an awful lot of Ice Hockey played in this country before nets were installed. Then a spectator was killed by a freak, errant puck -- and nets were installed in the oval behind the goal, to shield the audience...
I'm betting that once upon a time there weren't nets behind home plate in baseball either -- but now there are....
None of this means that the designs in question were unsafe at the time they were built. Not everything is foreseeable; some hazards are only identified through use...
It's unfortunate that such hazard identification usually involves serious injury or death --- but there were highly competent athletes who chose to take a sled down an icy course at speeds in excess of 80 miles an hour, speeds that were pretty much guaranteed to result in serious injury or death, if the athlete had an accident and left the track... |
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Larry Lawson, Photographer
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Portland | OR | USA | Posted: 8:11 PM on 02.14.10 |
| ->> Nik, Baseball started using nets behind home plate beginning with Fenway Park. I believe that was in the 40's. |
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Israel Shirk, Photographer, Assistant
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Boise | ID | US | Posted: 10:12 PM on 02.14.10 |
->> ->> Amazing how many armchair physicists are members here.
Chuck, not everyone here has phojo degrees. I'd guess it's actually relatively few, actually.
I'm finishing a degree in physics after I finish my last class in electrodynamics; and correct me if I'm wrong, but Thomas Witte, the other guy who was looking at it from a physical perspective, has one in engineering IIRC.
The changes they made in the course did two things in terms of physics:
First, the change in the cross section of the ice makes it such that the carts can't jump up the side vertically (which is what got the driver high enough to go over the wall) - now instead of the cart going up the side of the track, it'll just bounce off the side.
It was the cart's quick vault up the curved side of the ice wall which put the driver up into the air high enough to cause the accident. Without the curve, this can't happen anymore.
Second, the wall will just bounce someone to where they can roll or slide to a stop. It'll still injure someone pretty severely to hit it in the same way, but there's really no avoiding that when you're competing in luge or bobsled.
But in reality it's near impossible now to get that high now that the ice profile has been changed - it would require at least one side of the cart to be high enough to grab into the wall's side and still have enough leverage on the driver to send him upwards instead of just putting torque on him - so he would have to be on the high side of the cart as it hits the wall and catches. |
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Thomas E. Witte, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Cincinnati | OH | USA | Posted: 3:50 AM on 02.15.10 |
->> Chuck, I can't help but assume you're referring to me. I'm not going to list my "credentials" because I already come off as a know-it-all and blabbermouth on here as is. However how can you sit here and in one sentence say "Amazing how many armchair physicists are members here." Then in another say "It's just that, with little to no knowledge of either the sport or the design principles involved," (referring to yourself). This after I gave a bit of insight about both as a fan of bobsledding and luge since I was a child. Lucky you, I never pass up a chance to say "I told you so", but, I was right. A wall was erected (wood frame and plywood instead of plexi probably because the plexi would be a special order to fit) and the ice was reshaped to form sharper angles before the track reopened. Ironically news reports aren't stating that, but you can see them in news footage using spud bars to chisel out the curvature. The conspiracy theorist in me says they're trying not to mention that as to avoid any blame, yet there they are on video chipping away at it.
The nice thing about physics is that anyone with a basic knowledge of algebra can plug the variables in to the equation and get the same result Stephen Hawking would. Once you calculate the G forces he experienced, you cross reference that with published medical data about fatal G loads and come to a pretty gruesome conclusion.
If it helps, you have a physics department right there at your employer. David Allen would probably be your best bet since he's the only one not listed with an optics/atomic speciality. If he asks for numbers, tell him 80 kg for the mass, approximately 39.34 m/s for the speed and I'd ballpark 0.25 seconds for the deceleration/impact time, which is pretty generous.
I do want to be pretty clear though. My statement about not "faulting the design" was in specific relation to not having a wall extension near the pillars. However I did question the shape of the bottom of the track, which could be considered a fault, just not the one I'm talking about. All this physics gobbledygook is apparently stemming from my simple statement that pads and nets (such as in skiing) would have been useless.
Israel- Nope. Abnormal psychology is my other degree. I have referenced engineering and physics on here many times in past however since they were my first love and I changed my mind on degrees midway through applying to colleges. I've kept up studying physics over the years though ranging from applied physics to the theoretical stuff like String Theory and "spooky physics" which continues to blow my mind. Not enough to get a job, but enough to elevate me from the ranks of toilet seat physicist to armchair physicist. |
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Primoz Jeroncic, Photographer
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Kranj | SI | Slovenia | Posted: 10:12 AM on 02.15.10 |
->> Someone in this thread wrote "Inexperienced? I doubt any athlete competing in any Olympic event is inexperienced in their respected event."
Yes, you would think so, but in reality it's not like this. I have been in ski racing for huge part of my life (including few years as serviceman on World cup). I agree I never did anything special results vise, but that doesn't mean I don't know those things.
In reality, Olympics are open for everyone. Anyone literally with 2 minutes time, can go and race. I don't know enough about luge, so I will stick with skiing, which I do know. For skiing, limit is 125 FIS points for alpine skiing, and 300 FIS points for cross country skiing. Those familiar with FIS points know how laughable such limits are, for those without this knowledge, I can only tell, that pretty much anyone who manage to put skis on, can get these points. After that, all you need is to find country, where skiing doesn't exist, and off you go to Olympic start. Sure if you live in Austria, you don't have a chance, but if you compete for example for Ghana, you can easily go. And on the end, such guys are allowed to be on start of downhill race. Anyone ever standing on top of Kitzbuhel downhill race, know getting down is far from joke, even for experienced (ex)racer, not to mention for someone who is around 100+ FIS points.
So to be honest, I have been waiting for years, when something like this will happen, even though I was hoping it never will. So yes, unfortunately this accident most likely happened due inexperienced rider. I agree that tracks should be designed so, that even if you do really bad mistake, you won't get killed, but sometimes thing just happen, and they can't be prevented. Sure they could make that wall there, but there's no chance to make things 100% safe. And from this what I read and heard in last few days, most of riders didn't actually complain about this particular corner, but about 50:50 corner which is 2 or 3 corners before that. So this was really really bad luck, but no matter what, I hope something like this will never happen again. |
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Bryan Hulse, Photographer
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Nashville | Tn | USA | Posted: 10:50 AM on 02.15.10 |
->> Geoff Miller said:
"Seeing those on the outside exit of a technically difficult turn is mind blowing."
No kidding! It doesn't take a mathematician to see a HUGE danger in having big metal poles on the outside of a turn in the Luge where athletes are going close to 90 mph. And why wouldn't simple common sense come way before the numbers of a track design?
Just saying... |
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Primoz Jeroncic, Photographer
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Kranj | SI | Slovenia | Posted: 11:29 AM on 02.15.10 |
| ->> Luge and bobsleigh are different thing then car racing for example, where you almost never end up on inner side of corner. Last time I saw anyone flying out of course (on outside of corner) was in old clips from 50s when they were racing on sort "natural" tracks. Normally you have more chances, to get "catapulted" to inner side of corner then to outer side. If you look video of his crash, you will see that this poor guy actually got bounced from inner wall to outside of track, so in this case inner wall was actually problematic one. Basically it was impossible to hit those poles on outside of track, that's why they were even there. But you can't predict every possible event, and I guess noone was predicting it's possible to get bounced like this guy did. Unfortunately there's always small chance for things to go wrong, and in this case it ended really tragically. |
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Nik Habicht, Photographer
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Levittown | PA | USA | Posted: 11:43 PM on 02.15.10 |
->> Larry Lawson wrote: " Nik, Baseball started using nets behind home plate beginning with Fenway Park. I believe that was in the 40's."
Thanks for making my point -- baseball was played for ~ 60 years before anyone decided that a safety improvement was needed. I remember the nets coming into hockey arenas -- so that had to be sometime between 1993 and 2006.... |
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