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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Are strobes becoming obsolescent ?
Jim Owens, Photographer
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Cincinnati | OH | usa | Posted: 10:16 AM on 01.30.10 |
| ->> Given the ever improving resoultuion at high isos of camera bodies such as the Nikon D3s and the new Canon Mk IV, are strobes for indoor arenas and posibly even wedding portrait photography becoming a thing of the past ? |
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Svein Ove Ekornesvaag, Photographer
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Aalesund | Møre og Romsdal | Norway | Posted: 10:21 AM on 01.30.10 |
->> No way.
There are many other reasons to use flash than how god the ambient light and iso performance are. |
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David Manning, Photographer
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Athens | GA | | Posted: 10:21 AM on 01.30.10 |
->> Nope.
Strobed basketball/hockey just looks better, IMO.
Colors are more vibrant to me. |
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Matthew Sauk, Photographer
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Jason Joseph, Photographer
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Dublin | OH | USA | Posted: 10:43 AM on 01.30.10 |
| ->> Better high ISO's with strobes mean WAY better low ISO's with strobes. The only thing that the more usable high ISO's are helping me with are the strobe-less situations that produced a lot of blurred shots in the past b/c I can now shoot with a fast enough shutter speed. Otherwise, I am using strobes and lighting just as much if not more than I did before. |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 10:58 AM on 01.30.10 |
->> Psssttt... one of the ways professionals look better than GWC's is by using strobes.
Example: GWC at a conference wrestling championship last night asked me where my flash was (since his was on his hot shoe. He had his kid handing out business cards at the enterence so he could sell images.)
I pointed to the two Elinchroms mounted on the second level of the gym and then showed him what it produced in terms of light quality. He just said "WOW" when I showed him a image. I told him it was the quality of light that $2000 worth of lights produced.
My intent was clear: To let him know that shooting available light or hot shoe is how amateurs do it, not professionals.
Strobes produce better images. It's one way to stand out, esp. against GWCs. End of story. |
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Stanley Leary, Photographer
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Roswell | GA | USA | Posted: 11:12 AM on 01.30.10 |
->> Maybe.
While some here and even I fall into that category use strobes, maybe this will help some folks have their work standout.
The point is--if your work can look different (not necessarily better) you can stand out from the rest. In the past one way it was done with strobes.
I do think those who can make today's technology help them in some way be unique, then they will get more work.
If everyone thinks strobes are what make you the best and then everyone started doing it--well I think you get the point.
I think the point that many are making is the quality of light when you are using strobes is not so much just the quantity of light but the light spectrum. You have more color spectrum under strobe lighting than any other color space of light. So even if you had the same quantity of light under tungsten than say strobes, the strobes will give you a wider gamut of color.
The second reason people are using auxiliary lights is to shape an object. Dave Black for example http://www.daveblackphotography.com/sports-images/pages/ss0232.htm didn't light the whole court as typical. He just lit one area and then put blue gel over lights that lit the audience.
For those situations where just need a photo (wire service) you will be able to get a lot more with today's cameras and not have to use strobes to get the photos.
So you have a very valid question, which I think the answer is yes on one level. No you don't need strobes with today's cameras to get some of the photos you used to have to use strobes to get in the past. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 11:26 AM on 01.30.10 |
| ->> damn! and all these years I thought I was a professional! only to read here on SS that if I don't use strobes I'm not.....bummer! I'm glad that fry boy job at mcdonald's is still open..... 8) |
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David Manning, Photographer
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Athens | GA | | Posted: 11:31 AM on 01.30.10 |
| ->> Chuck, world needs bartenders too :D |
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Ken Blaze, Photographer
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Cleveland | OH | USA | Posted: 11:32 AM on 01.30.10 |
| ->> @ Matthew. I'm willing to bet if you took a poll that it would be spilt as to which of the images you posted was 'better.' |
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Paul Alesse, Photographer
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Centereach | NY | USA | Posted: 11:42 AM on 01.30.10 |
| ->> Strobes not only lower your ISO, but they overcome cycling lights. That's a huge advantage too. I'm finding cycling lights more of pain these days than the noise. |
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Peyton Williams, Photographer
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Chapel Hill | NC | USA | Posted: 12:04 PM on 01.30.10 |
| ->> Chuck... next time you are at the Dean Dome, I'll teach you how to be a professional. I'm always willing to help the young bucks. :) |
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Keith Kountz, Photographer, Assistant
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Fresno | CA | USA | Posted: 12:44 PM on 01.30.10 |
| ->> Shooting on strobes also makes you a better photog due to not being able to hammer the shutter. Timing is everything!! This makes editing down images easy also |
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Eric Francis, Photographer
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Omaha | NE | United States | Posted: 12:46 PM on 01.30.10 |
->> nothing has changed..... the professional knows when to use strobes and when NOT to use strobes...
Can someone recommend a good truck driving school for those of us veteran non-pros? |
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Matthew Sauk, Photographer
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Sandy | UT | United States | Posted: 12:53 PM on 01.30.10 |
->> Ken,
If we had a better forum software we could do that :) |
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Kevin Seale, Photographer
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Crawfordsville | IN | United States | Posted: 1:05 PM on 01.30.10 |
| ->> What is becoming a thing of the past due to these cameras is the need to hire someone to get a shot "good enough" to use. |
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Jim Owens, Photographer
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Cincinnati | OH | usa | Posted: 2:09 PM on 01.30.10 |
| ->> HUGE point, Kevin. Well said. |
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Andy Bronson, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Bellingham | WA | USA | Posted: 3:58 PM on 01.30.10 |
| ->> I have gone back to strobes in HS gyms with mercury vapor lights, the half colored, lower light shifts I was getting with the D3 were making it time consuming to color correct. The strobe is much better looking but I miss good action because of recycling times that a series of grabbing, bouncing ball action may get missed. But for night football it's the bomb using the D3. |
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Butch Miller, Photographer
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Lock Haven | PA | USA | Posted: 4:10 PM on 01.30.10 |
| ->> You're right Andy ... that's the main reason I strobe as well ... Those color shifts from the lights cycling is about the only reason I miss Tri-X and T-Max .... |
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Steven E. Frischling, Photographer
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| | | Posted: 4:40 PM on 01.30.10 |
->> Who needs strobes, shooting in RAW, run through Noise Ninja, process in Velvia Vision, upsize in SI Pro.
G'eez |
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Louis Lopez, Photographer
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Armando Solares, Photographer
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Englewood | FL | USA | Posted: 6:05 PM on 01.30.10 |
->> Here is a quick word lesson, "strobes can become obsolete." Or they can be obsolescent. Obsolescent means becoming obsolete. I had a teacher way back in high school correct me and I never forgot it. Who knew it would ever come up on this message board.
And to add to the discussion, strobes are used to create interesting light. To color light, to create shadows, to create moods, effects etc.... Although it is nice to have the option of setting up strobes or not, it all depends on what you want to say with your photos or what you need them for. If it is for tomorrow's sports section inside and black and white - I would not waste my time. If it is for the cover of a magazine or for your portfolio - Go for it. |
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Jeff Hinds, Photographer
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Portland | OR | USA | Posted: 6:16 PM on 01.30.10 |
->> Matthew, great work! I too agree that strobes are way better to give an excellent quality image...but I will agree with Ken that the poll would split. If I were a parent (non-photographer just looking for a good image of my kid) I would purchase either image in a heartbeat! Would you agree that most parents just want a good image and probably dont know the difference between a lit image and a non-lit image, especially the two examples you posted?!?
I've been battling this for a few years now: to light or not to light. With the cameras and their grain quality getting better to stop action it just doesnt make sense to spend the $$ on expensive gear not to mention the setup/teardown time. Dont get me wrong, I light HS gyms when I can get the permission and love the final images (see my member page for a few latest hoops images), but either way the parents will order if the images are good. |
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Patrick Fallon, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Columbia | MO | USA | Posted: 6:24 PM on 01.30.10 |
->> Strobes improve the quality of light as well as giving one the ability to manipulate the light to shape and control it how you want. As great as the high ISO and the advancements in auto white balance are - bad light is still bad light.
That said, Sports Illustrated did not strobe the sweet sixteen and elite eight NCAA basketball tourney's last year in Phoenix, part of that was due to the difficulty in rigging lights at the venue - part was the light was good enough to use high ISO on Nikon D3's to get good quality files.
So are they becoming obsolete? No, but they may not be as necessary as they once were for every shoot. |
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D. Ross Cameron, Photographer
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Oakland | CA | USA | Posted: 6:32 PM on 01.30.10 |
->> Thanks, Armando. I'm so glad that you pointed out the misuse of the term "obsolescent" so I could avoid my usual appearance here as a member of the Language Police.
So as not to appear totally off topic, let me also add that strobes are not obsolete by any stretch of the imagination. Anybody who tells you they are probably also thinks that digital imagery has completely obviated the need for photographic film.
Photography is all about using and controlling light to create an image. Often, existing light works fine to this purpose. Oh so frequently, however, I like to bring my own.
Just call me old-fashioned (and whatever else -- I don't care),
DRC |
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Jim Owens, Photographer
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Cincinnati | OH | usa | Posted: 11:09 AM on 01.31.10 |
| ->> Thanks for the correction, Armando. |
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Jim Owens, Photographer
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Cincinnati | OH | usa | Posted: 11:11 AM on 01.31.10 |
->> I'll add becoming obsolescent to my department of redundancy department.
:-) |
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Joshua Brown, Photographer
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Waynesville | NC | USA | Posted: 11:16 PM on 01.31.10 |
| ->> Another issue I've recently noticed when shooting high ISO's is that (obviously) the ambient is much more pronounced. I was shooting in a HS gym and noticed that in most shots when the player was dribbling down the court, the legs and shorts would have a yellow tint on the white jersey due to reflection off of the floor. When I used a flash (sorry, no strobes) and lowered my ISO to 800-ish, the yellow was much less pronounced. I found that the shots at 3200+ ISO at that gym made the players look two-toned. I'm not sure if this is true in most gyms, but here there was a clear difference in the two methods. |
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Luke Sharrett, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Washington | DC | United States | Posted: 12:28 AM on 02.01.10 |
| ->> I prefer the big strobe in the sky :) |
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Carlos Delgado, Photographer
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Long Beach | CA | USA | Posted: 6:36 PM on 02.01.10 |
->> Strobed high school sports in crappy gyms beats ambient, recycling lights with weird colors any day... even if you have a D3s.
If anybody is curious, I posted a story on how I light high school gyms on my blog: http://www.carlosdelgadophotography.com/?p=297 |
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