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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
One set of arena lights, 4 cameras
Matthew Putney, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Waterloo | IA | USA | Posted: 1:35 AM on 01.27.10 |
->> I have followed the article to a T on how to lag multiple remote cameras to one set of strobes here...
http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/1709
But I can't get any of the cameras to fire with the lights. Only black frames. I am using a Canon 20D with 70-200 f4, Canon Mark 2N with 24-70, Canon 1D with a 50mm, and Canon Mark 2 with a 17-40mm. All cameras are on AC power, with pretriggers, and the Dept-of-field button down. I have the MultiMax set to receive Chanel 30 A and have laged the camera with consistent numbers. Lights are hard wired to on MultiMax set to receive Chanel 30 A with a delay of .1480. I have tried over and over to try to set up these cameras to catch the lights and failed. If anyone out there uses a system like this or can shed some light on something I am missing please post.
Thanks |
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Robert Beck, Photographer
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Carlsbad | CA | USA | Posted: 2:02 AM on 01.27.10 |
| ->> That may be too many different types of cameras to make this system work. Auto focus turned off? What are the lag times of the cameras? Are they close to each other? Try getting ONE camera to work. Then another and so on. Some lenses work better than others as well. I know this does not help you but we have been using Nikon D3 bodies the past couple of years and they are so consistent we don't even have to lag them or set the preview button in load position. |
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Thomas E. Witte, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Cincinnati | OH | USA | Posted: 2:42 AM on 01.27.10 |
->> I'm not sure if it's the number of cameras more than it is the types of cameras. The lag time on the 1Dm1, 1Dm2 and 1Dm2N is pretty darn close off memory. The 20D however is the photographers equivalent of an epoch. So you'll need to make sure the cameras are all synced to the same trigger time.
But still, to have all four producing black frames, sumpum ain't right. Start with the 2 and 2N, then get the M1 matched up, then try the 20D. |
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Jack Arent, Photographer, Assistant
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Alameda | CA | | Posted: 5:09 AM on 01.27.10 |
| ->> It's the gremlins! I discovered that if I position my trigger multi max too close to my multi max connected to the lights those two would not communicate very well. |
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Steve Violette, Photographer
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Gulf Breeze | FL | USA | Posted: 9:19 AM on 01.27.10 |
->> Matt,
i had a similar problem with only a couple of cameras. Are you triggering the remotes with another camera or another remote? to get my issues straightened out, I called the multimax guys technical service - they straightened me out pretty quickly - but I do not recall the procedure at this time - gotta call them again
Steve |
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Thomas Campbell, Photographer
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Houston/San Antonio | TX | USA | Posted: 9:34 AM on 01.27.10 |
| ->> Were the lens caps off? Grin. |
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JP Wilson, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Norman | OK | USA | Posted: 9:49 AM on 01.27.10 |
| ->> I had the same problem when I was trying to do this a couple of months ago, I ended up changing the delay for the strobes to .1483, and set the lag on the cameras through the way the article says. It works fine now. I used 4 mk2's and 1 mk2n. When I tried to add my 20D or my 40D, they would not sync up right except for maybe 1/7 or 8 shots. |
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Matthew Putney, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Waterloo | IA | USA | Posted: 1:26 PM on 01.27.10 |
->> Thanks for all the responses.
-Robert, The auto focus is turned off. A few of the age times were .0607 another was .0457 and another was at .740. and the numbers stay fairly constant and don't, change more than ten thousandths of a second. I have also tried moving different lenses to different cameras.
-Thomas, I have stated with the Mark 2's, but how can all the cameras have the same trigger time? Doesn't each camera have different delays?
-Jack, they are about 200 feet from the light receivers.
-Steve, I am using another remote in my hand. I may call tech support also.
-Thomas C, I did check that after the 2nd time I was having problems. But thanks.
-JP, Thanks for the heads up, I may go over to the arena and try that. What made you try .1483? I would think trying it over and over would take forever. |
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Tom Story, Photographer
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Tempe | AZ | USA | Posted: 1:33 PM on 01.27.10 |
| ->> I was working my way through this and found that if you are shooting all the remotes AND the camera in your hand, you have to treat them ALL like remotes. Use a pushbutton to fire a separate Multimax and that fires the one in your hand and all the remotes. Lots of complexity and lots of radios. |
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Richard Denham, Photographer
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Toronto/Buffalo/Niagara | On | Canada | Posted: 4:38 PM on 01.27.10 |
| ->> life is simpler with PW Plus II's |
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Thomas E. Witte, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Cincinnati | OH | USA | Posted: 11:14 PM on 01.27.10 |
->> I was actually thinking about this this evening and was going to suggest what JP did; fiddle with the lag on the lights.
"-Thomas, I have stated with the Mark 2's, but how can all the cameras have the same trigger time? Doesn't each camera have different delays?"
They do and don't, that's the fun part. The M2/2N have should be identical, the M1 I _think_ is a smidgen faster and the 20D is a lot slower. Since the 2's (I believe) are the same, it's going to be easier to get those two to sync up by themselves first, then tweak the M1 to fit in, then lastly the 20D. To boot, there can be production anomalies between the cameras themselves. I had two 1D's at one time that were way off in their lag... It eventually turned out to be a faulty resistor (or maybe a capacitor?) deep in the bowels of the camera.
Obviously, once you get all of this ironed out write everything down and make sure you tag what receiver goes to what camera so that you can set it up again next time under the same specs.
Out of curiosity, how is your receiver tied in to the zip? Is it a straight line with the receiver in the middle? Straight with the receiver on the end, or a T configuration (usually when you have a drop down line you hardwire in to) with the receiver on the end? |
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Robert Beck, Photographer
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Carlsbad | CA | USA | Posted: 11:52 PM on 01.27.10 |
| ->> Fooling with the delay at the lights can help if there is a large difference in the camera lags (which there seems to be). You can make it longer (to a certain extent) to get all of the cameras to work or to work with kooky lags on the cameras. I still think you should start with one camera, get it working and go from there. |
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Israel Shirk, Photographer, Assistant
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Boise | ID | US | Posted: 3:34 PM on 01.28.10 |
->> Lengthen your exposure times initially if you're having trouble syncing; as you get closer to a proper lag time, decrease the exposure time and incrementally adjust the lag time.
Off the top of my head, I'd first set the longest lag camera - in this case the 20d. Use this as your lag time for the lights.
Then start working with the others - so say you've got your lag on your 20d at .250, and you find your MK2's have lags of .148, then you want your MK2's to trigger at 0.102 after your 20d (so they all have shutters open when the lights fire at 0.250s after you hit the button in your hand)
It's basically just a variant of that problem with the two trains meeting somewhere along a route :D
Quick diagram ASCII diagram:
You hit button here:
X
|---------------------------------------------------!
20d syncs to here:
|---------------------------------------------------X
So your lights need to lag to here:
|---------------------------------------------------X
Your MK2 lags this much:
|-----------|
So it needs to be triggered here:
|---------------------------------------X-----------!
So you give the MK2 this much lag before triggering:
|---------------------------------------|
Then everything should sync up. |
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Thomas E. Witte, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Cincinnati | OH | USA | Posted: 6:59 PM on 01.28.10 |
| ->> HA! Awesome graphic. |
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Matthew Putney, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Waterloo | IA | USA | Posted: 8:18 AM on 02.01.10 |
->> Well I got 4 cameras up and running with with big help from Shawn Cullen and Jordan Murph.
Shawn told me Canon cameras need the lights receiver set to .1483 not .1480 as the article stated. I used 2-mark 2's, one mark 2N, and a 20d. All cameras are hooked up to AC power. I only have the Dept-of-field button down on the Mark 2's. The cameras are very consistent exempt the 20D, I will just take what I can get from that camera.
The problem: after I lagged the camera I set it by locking the wizard and the lag time showed up on the screen, that is where I went wrong. After lagging the camera I needed to push the menu button to set it and then it changed the delay to a higher number on the wizard. Here is an example with the settings.
.0459
.0461
.0465 Camera lags(pick a middle number)
.0467
.0468
.1018 Wizard delay after you push the menu button
.1483 -Lights delayed
The math works out as .0465+.1018=.1483 The game I am shooting is on Wed I will let you know my percentages on good frames. |
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Scott Strazzante, Photographer
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Chicago | IL | USA | Posted: 8:35 AM on 02.01.10 |
| ->> oh, geez...my head hurts. |
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