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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Newspaper shooters - who do you out when you submit to AP?
Matthew Bush, Photographer
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Hattiesburg | MS | USA | Posted: 1:26 PM on 01.24.10 |
->> Member paper shooters who do you out and why ? I know it is different from paper to paper. There are some locations that out the competitor and that is understandable but who else does everyone out ?
I have noticed alot of TV Outs, Mags Out, and No Online from newspaper shooters recently. |
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Jim Colburn, Photo Editor, Photographer
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McAllen | TX | USA | Posted: 1:43 PM on 01.24.10 |
->> Mags Out
TV Out
No Sales
No Archiving
Internet Use By AP Members Only |
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Rainier Ehrhardt, Photographer
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Augusta | GA | USA | Posted: 3:39 PM on 01.24.10 |
->> At our paper we do MAGS OUT, TV OUT, NO SALES, NO INTERNET
I'm wondering if I should bring up the Internet use by AP Members Only to my editors to see what they think. NO INTERNET seems a bit broad. |
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Patrick Fallon, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Columbia | MO | USA | Posted: 10:18 PM on 01.24.10 |
->> Matthew,
Many papers now will out the AP for things like archive, sales, mags, etc.. when they have arrangements with companies like ZUMA Press to represent their image archive and feed for sales. |
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Ryan Kelly, Student/Intern
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Newport News | VA | USA | Posted: 10:40 PM on 01.24.10 |
| ->> Dumb question, but I'm intrigued. What do you guys mean by "Mags out," "TV out," etc.? |
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George Bridges, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Washington | DC | USA | Posted: 11:02 PM on 01.24.10 |
->> Ryan,
By "outing" someone like Magazines you say only AP newspaper clients can use the images. Sales outside newspapers to clients such as magazines that AP may distribute to are handled separately. If a magazine sees something they like move on the AP wire that is magazines out then they can call the paper or their sales agent and see about striking a deal.
Same goes for TV. If the Today Show wants to use an image they would have to purchase separately rather than use the AP feed of the image.
Papers also tend to out competitors in their own distribution area so that an NY Times photo that moves on the AP wire will not show up on the front of the Daily News and compete on the newsstand for that point-of-purchase sale. |
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Patrick Fallon, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Columbia | MO | USA | Posted: 11:02 PM on 01.24.10 |
->> Basically:
Mags Out = No sales or use by magazines. Newspapers only.
TV Out = No TV use.
NO SALES = Basically means AP can only provide the image to the co-op wire, not selling it via the AP Images service.
NO Archive means it can only run once on the wire - it cannot be archived for archive sale and retransmission on the wire at a later date [say on the 10th anniversary of a major story.] |
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Alan Walsh, Student/Intern, Photo Editor
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Tucson | AZ | | Posted: 11:03 PM on 01.24.10 |
->> It mean's the photos can't be used in that way.
The internet out always hurt us when we couldn't send a photographer to an away event (which is most of the time). |
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Patrick Fallon, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Columbia | MO | USA | Posted: 11:03 PM on 01.24.10 |
| ->> Gah. George Beat me too it. |
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Mike Strasinger, Photographer
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Nashville | TN | USA | Posted: 12:35 AM on 01.25.10 |
| ->> Is this something up to the shooter or the newspaper they work for? |
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Patrick Fallon, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Columbia | MO | USA | Posted: 1:01 AM on 01.25.10 |
->> Mike,
It depends on who owns the rights to the images and what agreement the paper has with the photographers for resales, licensing, etc. |
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Ryan Kelly, Student/Intern
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Newport News | VA | USA | Posted: 10:05 AM on 01.26.10 |
| ->> Ahh, interesting, thanks. I understand outing local competitors for effectiveness at point-of-sale, but what's the reasoning behind outing magazines/internet/TV? Is it that whoever made the original image tends not to get paid enough to make it worth having your product regurgitated everywhere? |
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Patrick Fallon, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Columbia | MO | USA | Posted: 11:59 AM on 01.26.10 |
->> Ryan,
Part of it is that, part is wanting to keep the images your newspaper produces 'unique' to your newspaper and your own site, and part is about the financial arrangements papers have to get sales [more $$$] from those images in the TV and Magazine markets with companies besides the AP.
As George already said:
"By "outing" someone like Magazines you say only AP newspaper clients can use the images. Sales outside newspapers to clients such as magazines that AP may distribute to are handled separately. If a magazine sees something they like move on the AP wire that is magazines out then they can call the paper or their sales agent and see about striking a deal.
Same goes for TV. If the Today Show wants to use an image they would have to purchase separately rather than use the AP feed of the image." |
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Tim Vizer, Photographer
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Belleville | IL | USA | Posted: 9:58 PM on 01.26.10 |
->> Let me throw in something that a few people might find anachronistic: Our biggest competitor is the St. Louis Post-Dispatch across the river. Also, back on the Illinois side, in our "metro-east" area, we have the Alton Telegraph which contributes to AP and outs both the Post and us routinely.
For many years, former St. Louis AP bureau photographer James Finley worked hard to establish a "no outs" atmosphere in the true sense of the "cooperative" that the AP is founded on. We (BND) hardly ever outed anyone, trying to be a good AP member paper. Finley got the Post to finally agree, and for many years, only the Telegraph outed us.
Believe me, I'm the first to understand the competitive nature of our industry, but it seems counter-productive -- especially in the current economic atmosphere -- for us to be outing each other rather than trying to work together for the common good, with smaller staffs working harder to handle more responsibilities per person.
Corny sounding to some of you, I'm sure, but again, it's what the AP was founded on --- as a CO-OPERATIVE. Having said that, now, we do periodically out the Post (and others) if its something really big (say an exclusive enterprise story that involved a lot of reporting and accompanying imagery). But it's judged case by case, and not just a blanket "out everyone" mentality.
-Tim |
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Nick Adams, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Galesburg | IL | | Posted: 6:44 PM on 08.30.11 |
->> Sorry to bring up a dead thread.
I ran into the AP saying my paper couldn't use "outs"
At other papers in the past I've always had Mags Out, TV Out, No Sales, No Archiving, Internet Use By AP Members Only
Recently with a murder trial after sending the photos I got a call from the AP saying I couldn't have "outs". They said the paper had a agreement and they never done this in the past. However, they couldn't find a contact or anything like that and they took it off when it moved on the wire. The idea was photographers couldn't just out things they wished.
Has anyone ever heard of anything papers losing the rights to "out" due to a contract? |
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Jeff Kowalsky, Photographer
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West Bloomfield | MI | United States | Posted: 7:26 PM on 08.30.11 |
| ->> Were these pool images? |
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Nick Adams, Photo Editor, Photographer
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Galesburg | IL | | Posted: 9:04 PM on 08.30.11 |
| ->> It wasn't pool images. The main reason for outing tv is that we share markets with them. Tv wasn't at the perp so of course they played the images during the nightly news. |
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Jim Colburn, Photographer, Photo Editor
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Omaha | NE | USA | Posted: 10:42 PM on 08.30.11 |
->> "they couldn't find a contact or anything like that"
Until they do, or your management confirms the contract, tell the AP that you won't send them any pictures unless the "outs" are allowed.
It could be that someone at Gatehouse (your corporate owners I believe) made a company-wide deal and never told you. Check the facts, then act as you feel justified. |
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Chuck Liddy, Photographer
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Durham | NC | USA | Posted: 11:02 PM on 08.30.11 |
| ->> I have found that in most cases people disregard the "out". back when the AP was truly a co-op and actually cared about their members it worked. just like "mandatory credit" most just blow it off. the AP doesn't give a crap. they just want their 30 pieces of silver. |
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