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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Update on Burglary in NC; Hard lessons learned
Margaret Bowles, Photographer
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Houston | TX | | Posted: 1:52 PM on 01.13.10 |
->> After getting the run around for six weeks with Nationwide, I was informed today that they will only pay me the "actual cash value" for my stolen items. Apparently, under an Inland Marine Policy, "replacement cost" means the cost to replace the stolen item with an item of the same age and quality. Under this policy "replacement cost" and "actual cash value" or "depreciated value" essentially mean the same thing. Therefore, because I had two three-year-old Mark II's stolen, and those can be purchased for about $900 apiece today, the amount they are paying me is $1800 for those two bodies.
Again, learn from blissfully ignorant me who did not read all 200 pages of my policy. Be sure you understand completely what your coverages are. I was told by my agent that I was getting replacement cost insurance. I thought it meant I would get the value of a new camera. I'm sure there are policies out there you can buy that will give you that kind of coverage, but a Nationwide Inland Marine Policy will not.
Also, be aware that your homeowner's policy does not fully cover items that are stolen somewhere other than from your home. Because my things were stolen from a house I was temporarily living in and I did not have that premises insured, my recovery is limited to 10% of the total amount of the homeowner's policy. Homeowners policies also have limits on coverage for computers, jewelry and cash. |
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Chad Ryan, Photographer
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Fort Wayne | IN | USA | Posted: 2:18 PM on 01.13.10 |
| ->> Will they not consider that the model of camera you owned is no longer produced and to get a similar level of camera you would have to purchase new bodies? I don't know how they can expect you to shop around for used gear that you have no "real" idea of how it was treated or how long it will last before repairs or replacement is needed. It seems like a ridiculous load of bull they're trying to force on you. |
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Eric Canha, Photographer
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Brockton | MA | United States | Posted: 2:27 PM on 01.13.10 |
->> Margaret THANK YOU for posting this. I just called the Hartford to make sure that my coverage was in fact what I was told it was. Insurance is one of the very few things that my wife and I can go at each other bare knuckles over. She's an insurance manager.
When in doubt ask to speak to an underwriter and get your answers directly from them. Underwriters are the only people who REALLY can look at a policy and know what is and isn't covered. They're the ones who can help you to find exclusions that will bite you in the ass and offer additional coverages to protect you against those exclusions.
I'm really sorry that this has happen to you. Insurance shouldn't be written like a casino card game where the house has the edge. |
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John Germ, Photographer
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Wadsworth | Oh | USA | Posted: 2:32 PM on 01.13.10 |
| ->> Agree - great post. I can say that my State Farm Personal Articles policy works as you thought your marine policy did. So if you're not happy with your current insurer I suggest looking at a State Farm policy. The only thing worth noting is to be sure to INCREASE insured amounts for items that actually grow in value. For example, when I bought my Sigma 120-300 2.8 they sold for $1800. I had to bump up the value to $3000 to cover the cost of replacing it today if it were lost. |
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Max Waugh, Photographer
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Bothell | WA | USA | Posted: 2:41 PM on 01.13.10 |
->> I'm also fortunate to have the State Farm personal article policy, and as John said they're good about giving you the full amount to buy a replacement. John, good tip about updating the values as cost rise, especially for lenses. I'll have to do that.
Max |
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Patrick Fallon, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Columbia | MO | USA | Posted: 2:48 PM on 01.13.10 |
->> I just got my policy for equipment and liability with TCP http://tcpinsurance.com/
As Margaret will recall, they came highly recommended by other members here when her equipment was stolen: http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=34827
What sealed the deal for me was the ability to visit their office 5min. away from home and double check those little details in person. Even though they are not the least expensive, it does cover NEW similar replacement value. |
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Margaret Bowles, Photographer
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Houston | TX | | Posted: 3:35 PM on 01.13.10 |
->> Chad, I did make that argument to them, but they just aren't going to get into the distinctions about the value of a camera with 30,000 actuations vs. one with 80,000 actuations.
Ranting and raving won't help me now, but maybe I can help others, and that is my focus here. "Replacement value" might not mean what you think it does. I just want everyone to educate themselves what it means on their own policies.
Also, one other thing; be sure to keep every receipt of every item that you buy and intend to have covered. If you buy a used piece of equipment, get the seller to provide you a bill of sale, even if it's just handwritten. Keep a record of when you bought it, how much you paid, and the serial number. Take a video of your house and your belongings.
Please don't let my loss be in vain; educate and protect yourselves. I will be changing insurance carriers today. |
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David Seelig, Photographer
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Hailey | ID | USA | Posted: 3:41 PM on 01.13.10 |
| ->> I also use the Hartford. what my cameras are insured for they have always paid off, and never a raise in premuims. No weird ass language to worry about. Sorry, Margret, all this BS happened to you. Thanks for the warning to all of us that might be insured in the wrong places,or thinking we cans save a few bucks and it will not hurt . |
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Keith Coward, Photographer
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Lincolnton | NC | USA | Posted: 5:31 PM on 01.13.10 |
| ->> Thanks Margaret. Because of your earlier post, I reviewed my coverage with Nationwide, and had to squeeze them to allow me to 'overinsure' my equipment to basically get replacement value coverage. I asked State Farm for a quote and they told me they didn't offer that coverage in North Carolina. But, I also didn't have any other policies with them and that may have been a factor. But they were pretty quick to NOT be interested. |
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Jeannette Merten, Photographer
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Oshkosh | WI | USA | Posted: 6:10 PM on 01.13.10 |
| ->> I'm in the midst of switching to a different insurance company and will be asking more pointed questions due to this post. Thanks for sharing and certainly sorry to hear about your hardship. |
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Peter Read Miller, Photographer
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Manhattan Beach | CA | USA | Posted: 6:40 PM on 01.13.10 |
->> I'm with Patrick. I have been insured with Tom Pickard(www.tcpinsurance.com) for over 20 years.
I have a business policy covering my equipment and liability-very handy when a location or rental house requests a "certificate of insurance". I also insure my cars and home with them.
Good people-great service. |
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Harrison Shull, Photographer
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Fayetteville, WV | Asheville, NC | | Posted: 7:06 PM on 01.13.10 |
->> This topic made me want to recheck my policy limits so I checked with my contact at TCP (Cyndi) and she reported the below. Note:FFIC is Firemans Fund Ins which underwrites the policy.
"I attached FFIC's replacement cost provision endorsement; let me know if the file won't open. But in layman's terms, it says that replacement cost is the cost of a new item identical to the one in question at the time of loss, or if it's no longer available, something equal in quality and usefulness.
Now, here's the catch:
The endorsement goes on to say that replacement cost is paid by FFIC when the item is actually replaced. If you replace the items right away and submit the invoice to the adjustor handling the claim, you get replacement cost right away. If you don't replace it right away for whatever reason and they pay out on the claim, then you get the "actual cash value" meaning the cost of what those items in question are worth currently...but if and when you do replace the item, you can submit the invoice to the adjustor and they'd pay the difference from the actual cash value to the replacement cost. So it can be either a one step or two step process, but in the end, if you replace the gear in question, you get replacement cost." |
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
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Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 9:59 AM on 01.14.10 |
->> Ironically, it was a Nationwide agent who told me a few months ago that his company was in the "business of paying claims" - you really do have to look at what a company's track record is when it comes to claims payment (i.e., payment avoidance).
I recently had to file a claim under my USAA homeowner's policy computer endorsement for damage to my laptop. I was pleasantly surprised when they opted for total reimbursement (it was less than 3 months old) rather than simply the cost of repair (which was about 2/3 of original cost). |
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Jeff Stanton, Photographer
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Indiana | IN | USA | Posted: 10:23 AM on 01.14.10 |
->> "business of paying claims"
You have got to be kidding me. If they were in that business, they wouldn't be in business at all. |
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Geoff Miller, Photographer
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Portage | MI | USA | Posted: 10:26 AM on 01.14.10 |
| ->> It's also worth pointing out that as you read this thread, remember that due to differences in state insurance laws, the particulars of insurance products that an insurance company offers can differ from state to state. The terms of my State Farm homeowner's standard policy will be different from those of another State Farm policyholder in another state. For example, here in Michigan, State Farm doesn't have limitations on computers or camera equipment, but they do in some other states. |
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Chuck Steenburgh, Photographer
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Lexington | VA | USA | Posted: 11:08 AM on 01.14.10 |
->> Jeff - Not at all. That's their business: paying claims after someone suffers a loss. Their product really doesn't get used until...you use it. How well their product works, as well as what it costs, is what their business is ultimately judged on. He hit it right on the head.
Note that he didn't say "paying as many claims as possible," "paying fraudulent claims," etc. |
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Dave Breen, Photographer
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Somerset | PA | USA | Posted: 2:12 PM on 01.14.10 |
->> I double-checked with my (Nationwide) agent, and I do, indeed have "replacement cost" coverage instead of "actual cash value". The latter is standard with inland marine policies, which cover all risks but ACV payouts. My extended coverage is part of a business owner policy, which also provides liability in my studio/office AND on location. I imagine this type of coverage is available through most companies in most states. Inland marine is probably not the best way to go to cover professional equipment.
My agent goes out of his way to find ways I can save money while maintaining appropriate coverage. Keep in mind, an agent only knows what you tell him/her, so make sure you provide complete information and ask a lot of questions. Basically, a mixture of the two coverages provides the best of both worlds. |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 2:19 PM on 01.14.10 |
->> Margaret;
This is not the first time this has come up on this site. Replacement value is the depreciated value of the product. They need simply go to eBay to find the lowest price for the item and say "here's your replacement value."
Another approach is to deduct a certain percentage off of a new price. In the case of a digital cameras that we use 25% per year would be minimum I would guess.
Slight of hand by the insurance industry? You bet. I'm sorry your insurance carrier pulled this stunt. It's not the last time it will happen...unfortunately.
The good news for you is that the MIV's are shipping.
Thanks for posting. |
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