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|| SportsShooter.com: Member Message Board
Bad Contracts
Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 11:59 PM on 12.23.09 |
->> Dan, the tendency to lie and try to maximize one's advantage extends far past the photography business. This is but one more example of the times we live in.
Look at it this way: Chances are if they had agreed to your terms and sent you a check, the thing probably would have bounced and you would have already sent them the file.
As it is, all you've lost is a bit of time.
Just make sure they don't use the low res file anyway. |
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Jesse Beals, Photographer
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Tracyton | WA | USA | Posted: 3:58 AM on 12.24.09 |
->> Could be worse, I got laid off in March 09 after 6 1/2 years of service. In October of 09 I won 2009 WNPA Photographer of the year (Washington Press Publishers Association) award for my former employer and in December 00 I was asked if I would like to come back and freelance for $30.00 a picture.
I passed!!!!!!! |
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Preston Mack, Photographer
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Orlando | FL | USA | Posted: 8:50 AM on 12.24.09 |
| ->> Jesse, They would've offered $15 if you were not photographer of the year! |
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Dan Routh, Photographer
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Greensboro | NC | USA | Posted: 9:31 AM on 12.24.09 |
| ->> The sad part of this whole thing is that the publisher is not some fly by night small fry, but is rather a major national book and magazine publisher. Are we looking at this type of thing becoming the norm in our business? Not if I can help it. |
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Jack Megaw, Student/Intern, Photographer
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Dan Routh, Photographer
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Greensboro | NC | USA | Posted: 10:07 AM on 12.24.09 |
| ->> Jack, the AD said I could mark out the parts I found objectionable. I told him I would need to mark out the entire contract. Does Sharpie make a paint brush? |
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Robert Seale, Photographer
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Houston | TX | USA | Posted: 10:13 AM on 12.24.09 |
->> Well done Dan.
It always hurts to miss out on a sale or assignment, but in the end you'll sleep much better by doing the right thing.
This is one of the most important parts about freelancing. Read the contracts, cross out ANY offending language, don't be bullied, and avoid them if you can. Let the publishers work under YOUR terms and conditions - you are a BUSINESS, just like them.....and be prepared to walk when it doesn't work.
You would be surprised how often they will accommodate you if you just say no.
Those of you who have recently left newspaper jobs or just graduated and entered the freelance world.....did you read the contracts you've signed? Two of the biggest (and most prestigious) newspaper publishers in the country have bad ones. I've seen a lot of talented shooters....shooters who are too good to work under bad contracts, sign away their lives and do the work anyway.
When anyone signs one of these - it's bad....... but when a supremely talented and experienced photographer signs one, it hurts the whole business in a big way. You then become the photo editor/legal rep's argument for everyone else he talks to...."Well Joe Smith signed this - why won't you do it?"
Think before you sign.
Great lesson, Dan. Thanks. |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 10:44 AM on 12.24.09 |
->> A contract is nothing more than an offer.
Here's a rule that everyone should memorize:
NEVER EVER TAKE THE FIRST OFFER.
If I had a dollar for every first offer ever made to me, no matter how stupid it was, I'd be rich.
Robert, you make a great point about people using someone else who did sign to get you to sign. Of course, the way you handle that is to respond "Well, I can't speak for Joe Smith. But I know what my cost of doing business is and this OFFER isn't acceptable. You then counter with what is acceptable (your original offer) and conclude "Do we have a agreement?" And then shut up and wait for a response. Silence is your friend. It makes them squirm. If it takes 20 minutes do not speak. The first one to speak loses.
It's called closing on resistance and it works more than you would expect.
If they say no you are no worst off. Robert is exactly right; by saying no you will be surprised how many of them come back and say "OK". |
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Jeff Martin, Photographer
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wellington | OH | usa | Posted: 12:15 PM on 12.24.09 |
->> "If I had a dollar for every first offer ever made to me, no matter how stupid it was, I'd be rich."
I found this amusing. |
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Michael Fischer, Photographer
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Spencer | Ia | USA | Posted: 4:23 PM on 12.24.09 |
->> Jeff,
Since I wrote that this morning, one of my inexprienced sales persons, who is much like many photographers, had a sale where the client made him a unrealistic offer.
In the past, he would run around trying to figure out how to make a unrealistic offer work - even if it meant no profit. Some training and a heart to heart conversation ("if you're not profitable, you can't stay") helped.
He thanked the client and said that he couldn't accept the offer but that he still thought his recommendation for the client was the right one.
He got the sale.
Many times, the low ball offer is just a test to see if they can't get you to go down further. Ironically, if you say "no" to the stupid offer, you end up passing.
AD, Photo editors and everyone else you deal with works the same way.
Taking the offer is not only bad from a profit standpoint, many times the low ball client ends up presenting you with a lot more issues after the sale. You really end up losing your butt on the deal. One more reason to pass on the bad ones.
Happy Holidays. |
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Mark Loundy, Photo Editor
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San Jose | CA | USA | Posted: 2:49 PM on 01.11.10 |
->> Way to go Dan!
--Mark |
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Dan Routh, Photographer
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Greensboro | NC | USA | Posted: 3:56 PM on 01.11.10 |
| ->> Thanks Mark. These things never cease to amaze me. The publisher approached me with a very straightforward request. The wanted a particular use for an image and I gave them a specific price. And they were on a deadline. Then rather than proceed with a contract that is basic and fair for both parties, they send me something written by a lawyer designed to take advantage of anyone who signed it. And they ended up wasting a tremendous amount of time for both of us. Why can't this profession be a normal business? You need something, it's going to cost you this, period, for what you need it for, and nothing else. If you do need it later for something else, we'll talk then. |
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Mark Peters, Photographer
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Highland | IL | USA | Posted: 9:37 PM on 01.11.10 |
->> "Why can't this profession be a normal business?"
Dan - this is normal for a very large percentage of businesses. |
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Dan Routh, Photographer
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Greensboro | NC | USA | Posted: 9:53 AM on 01.12.10 |
| ->> Mark, you are probably right, sadly. Nevertheless, we can all do our part to try to keep the business of photography from being that way. |
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Dan Routh, Photographer
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Greensboro | NC | USA | Posted: 6:39 PM on 02.10.10 |
| ->> Update. As I stated before, I was able to reach an agreement with the publisher for the one-time use. I received a check 2 days ago. You don't have to sign bad contracts. |
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Kevin German, Photographer
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